Wrongfully banned. Need help

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Originally Posted by Awha

I have also seen this but on if curiosity what can the GM really do regarding stalker like behavior.

End of the day the black list feature is your best line of defense. Sure it will not stop the initial response, and emote usage etc . . .

System is not perfect but blacklist is a powerful tool.

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Using this logic, the profanity filter is the same, yet man do the GMS ever pounce on you using a naughty word.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

Using this logic, the profanity filter is the same, yet man do the GMS ever pounce on you using a naughty word.

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Thing is with profanity is a clear violation of the ToS black and white.

Stalking and harassment are not so clean cut. SE does take action over extreme but often because they crossed some significant line cases but often it is not that clear cut from a neutral perspective.

Idk banning a stalker would seem to empower someone starved for attention. I think this is generally why I think SE promotes the black list feature as a solution. like as someone mentioned it is easy to just create a new account look at our forum trolls.

In the end GM's investigations must not support the removal of the player. We hardly ever hear the full story when it comes to harassment and stalker cases.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Thing is with profanity is a clear violation of the ToS black and white.

Stalking and harassment are not so clean cut. SE does take action over extreme but often because they crossed some significant line cases but often it is not that clear cut from a neutral perspective.

Idk banning a stalker would seem to empower someone starved for attention. I think this is generally why I think SE promotes the black list feature as a solution. like as someone mentioned it is easy to just create a new account look at our forum trolls.

In the end GM's investigations must not support the removal of the player. We hardly ever hear the full story when it comes to harassment and stalker cases.

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I don't know. In education we'd drool at the chance to have records of everything said and done in a day. It would make it extremely easy to pick out and stop harrassment because it is actually clean cut, unless you as a service provider do not in fact make it clean cut for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

I don't know. In education we'd drool at the chance to have records of everything said and done in a day. It would make it extremely easy to pick out and stop harrassment because it is actually clean cut, unless you as a service provider do not in fact make it clean cut for some reason.

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With his vague the ToS is regarding harassment and stuff if they start enforcing the vagueness of the ToS when it comes to harassment in theory anything you say to someone could in theory be classified as harassment based around how the one reporting it words the report.

SE seems to like we have proof you have done x so here is y punishment.

The problem with stalking is unless they make it blatantly obvious in chat or message that they are following you around and what not to harass you, it's next to impossible to tell intent.

You get the stalker claiming they're doing the story or whatever and happened to be in the same area as their victim. That they were having fun with an emote and just happened to be around you at the time. And since chances are they'll get sent to different GM's or not connected to each other and therefore the stalker typically has to cross a line with the TOS in their stalking beyond that to get in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

The problem with stalking is unless they make it blatantly obvious in chat or message that they are following you around and what not to harass you, it's next to impossible to tell intent.

You get the stalker claiming they're doing the story or whatever and happened to be in the same area as their victim. That they were having fun with an emote and just happened to be around you at the time. And since chances are they'll get sent to different GM's or not connected to each other and therefore the stalker typically has to cross a line with the TOS in their stalking beyond that to get in trouble.

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Yeah that is what I am trying to get at. GM's are not miracle workers.

Booked by the glamour police. That'll be a hefty fine.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

The problem with stalking is unless they make it blatantly obvious in chat or message that they are following you around and what not to harass you, it's next to impossible to tell intent.

You get the stalker claiming they're doing the story or whatever and happened to be in the same area as their victim. That they were having fun with an emote and just happened to be around you at the time. And since chances are they'll get sent to different GM's or not connected to each other and therefore the stalker typically has to cross a line with the TOS in their stalking beyond that to get in trouble.

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They literally have all the data on the characters. Just doing story? Easy to debunk by seeing what quests they have. They have all the data to see the actual patterns that point to harassments. It is literally a wet dream when it comes to being able to see and enforce anti harassment measures.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

They literally have all the data on the characters. Just doing story? Easy to debunk by seeing what quests they have. They have all the data to see the actual patterns that point to harassments. It is literally a wet dream when it comes to being able to see and enforce anti harassment measures.

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Thing is said patterns are still based around some degree of conjecture. That is the point even at that point you may get one GM that views said pattern as harassment and another as not. Though with profanity they can legit have an list of words that are objectively viewed as profanity on the internal level. End of the day the probably also do not get paid enough to care to dig through all that data to even find said pattern.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

The problem with stalking is unless they make it blatantly obvious in chat or message that they are following you around and what not to harass you, it's next to impossible to tell intent.

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Often times they leave traces or make it blatantly obvious they're stalking someone. If you look for cases like these you see them all the time on reddit. The GM's are clearly ignoring those cases and instead warn someone for dropping the "f" word when it was taken out of context. Actually the easiest way to prove it is to see if they end up on your housing plot, which tends to happen when a player is stalking another player. They also tend to send inappropriate messages so unless it's a smart person, they're not going to try hard.

The patterns are actually pretty solid. The only conjecture that comes up when dealing with it irl is easily covered by the extra info that the mods here would have.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

The patterns are actually pretty solid. The only conjecture that comes up when dealing with it irl is easily covered by the extra info that the mods here would have.

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Said it yourself ‘pretty solid’ the information they have may be able to form a pretty sold picture but it will not be black and white like if they drop an f bomb. As we have seen SE does not seem to care much about context or intent.

Also GM are not miracle workers and also probably do not get paid enough to dig through all that data to even formulate a pretty sold picture.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

They literally have all the data on the characters. Just doing story? Easy to debunk by seeing what quests they have. They have all the data to see the actual patterns that point to harassments. It is literally a wet dream when it comes to being able to see and enforce anti harassment measures.

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Like I said, story or whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I think players who stalk others need to be punished.

It's just proving that it is stalking is easier said than done given that the stalker can spin a plausible lie about their intent when they were by their prey.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

You might have been banned for using bad language. Even if it isn't aimed at anyone in particular and even accounting for the mature language filter...if somebody sees it and reports it, you will absolutely be punished for it.

I know a lot of people who choose to play it safe, myself included, by keeping dialogue with other players to a bare minimum. It makes the game much quieter, but it also doesn't risk losing a considerable amount of invested time and money.

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No one should ever have to play like this. There is something seriously wrong with a community where it's players are afraid to speak and be social. I think it's about time the player base AND SE staff, from producer to GM's looks at their game and realizes the system in place is toxic. There is a reasonable person clause in the ToS for a VERY good reason, it is about time the GM's learn what it is and remain objective rather than outright punishing people.

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Originally Posted by Merrnryn

No one should ever have to play like this. There is something seriously wrong with a community where it's players are afraid to speak and be social. I think it's about time the player base AND SE staff, from producer to GM's looks at their game and realizes the system in place is toxic. There is a reasonable person clause in the ToS for a VERY good reason, it is about time the GM's learn what it is and remain objective rather than outright punishing people.

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That's never going to happen, as much as I agree. There's just too many sensetive players in this community that lose their wits when faced with criticism. Tell someone to improve on their job? You don't pay my sub. Give someone advice on mechanics? They know better. Do Savage content? You're a toxic elitist for merely existing. The ToS are purposefully vague to avoid further questioning on the subject. If you're unsure about violations chances are you'll be silent in-game. That's a feasible strategy to drown confrontations and deal with them swiftly. At what cost? It creates more segregation and anxiety. Basically the ToS is in stark contrast to the overall theme of the game and doesn't encourage any social interaction between people if you ask me.

People are getting banned for simply putting the word "Parse" in their party finders for Savage raids.

Like, I understand the whole dont ask dont tell philosophy but if it isnt directly effecting you why do you care? You dont have to even acknowledge the party.

If S.E. doesnt like parsing, maybe its time to remove DPS checks from fights and find other means for gating players from their gear.

a few reasons could had been put in jail/suspended

1. Committed or bought RMT... eg bought GIL is high on the list.
2. Foul Language in public, and repeated use there of.
3. Been toxic towards another player, or openly harrashing.
4. Enforcing things on to others or used illegal votekick, they not really happy for people votekicking for no reason... eg. someone went to pick up the hoard in HoH or POTD... and got kicked for playing the content as it is intended is a good one, or random dungeon where just vote kicked for fun or out of 'sport'
5. Spam... any kind of spamming or flooding, eg. massive ASCII art/macros... using emotes on repeat without having the text shut off... also counts as spam... another spam type that exist... is repeat of actions in public area, if you do eg. Holy over and over again, you can also get reported, whether like it or not, you may pay your subscription, but it does not mean you can do whatever you like and especially not if it end annoying people.
6. Being a mentor that abuse Novice Network kicks, or keep telling inaccurate information, or keep on putting spoilers in Novice Network.

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Originally Posted by Provoke

People are getting banned for simply putting the word "Parse" in their party finders for Savage raids.

Like, I understand the whole dont ask dont tell philosophy but if it isnt directly effecting you why do you care? You dont have to even acknowledge the party.

If S.E. doesnt like parsing, maybe its time to remove DPS checks from fights and find other means for gating players from their gear.

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I would rather they be banned for using the wrong tags in PF if they are doing that. Parsing has been on the no-no list for as long as I can remember here. So yeah, any public mentions can get you in trouble. Its not needed. You can judge how good you do by how fast the thing dies. Actual damage numbers is not the criteria SE wants to judge the player base with and they've been pretty clear on that.

But mostly the parsers are third-party ad-ons and those violate the ToS. That's basically it. I wouldn't be opposed to having an in-game system that gave you a general ranking based on how you did but this, like parsing would just lead to people getting ostracized. The argument that it is primarily used for personal performance is a joke. Its used to rate people for end-game content otherwise people wouldn't be required to show/post them when joining statics.

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Originally Posted by VannaM

So yeah, I've been stuck in some jail cell for like an hour here with no help. What the hell is going on? Why have I been banned? Can someone help me out? This is crazy.

I don't know what's going on.

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troll thread

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Originally Posted by Awha

Said it yourself ‘pretty solid’ the information they have may be able to form a pretty sold picture but it will not be black and white like if they drop an f bomb. As we have seen SE does not seem to care much about context or intent.

Also GM are not miracle workers and also probably do not get paid enough to dig through all that data to even formulate a pretty sold picture.

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It's also likely we have hidden notes annotated to our characters relative to GM interactions. When someone makes a claim of being stalked, I would hope the GM would put a note on that person's character of who the accused was, their IP, and behavior reflective through parsing logs. Especially when the accuser goes the extra mile to tell them to go away, leave them alone, etc.. Individually, that may not be enough, but it's when the repeat behavior arises that you start getting comparative. Is the harassment coming from a new character with the same IP? Bingo. Did they personally or ask for someone else to do a search to see if their target is online? Mighty fishy. Nonetheless, while GMs may not be miracle workers, we can't just assume they're stupid and lacking tools to adequately investigate. Whether they actually try is a worthy doubt, however.

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

It's also likely we have hidden notes annotated to our characters relative to GM interactions. When someone makes a claim of being stalked, I would hope the GM would put a note on that person's character of who the accused was, their IP, and behavior reflective through parsing logs. Especially when the accuser goes the extra mile to tell them to go away, leave them alone, etc.. Individually, that may not be enough, but it's when the repeat behavior arises that you start getting comparative. Is the harassment coming from a new character with the same IP? Bingo. Did they personally or ask for someone else to do a search to see if their target is online? Mighty fishy. Nonetheless, while GMs may not be miracle workers, we can't just assume they're stupid and lacking tools to adequately investigate. Whether they actually try is a worthy doubt, however.

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Oh I am sure they have plenty of tools but I just doubt they get paid enough to care and just do the bare minimum that is required to keep said job.

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Originally Posted by Saidosha

Especially when the accuser goes the extra mile to tell them to go away, leave them alone, etc.. Individually, that may not be enough, but it's when the repeat behavior arises that you start getting comparative.

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Coming from someone who was accused of it for being in Limsa in general, even if nowhere near the person, I am gonna say attention for that should be looked at both sides.

This is why the "Reasonable person" needs to be a big point. Just because I'm in Limsa shout chat and you're in Limsa shout chat, doesn't mean that's why I'm there. Some people are just... crazy.