Will we ever get PvP combos in PvE?

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The thing I want is to have all buttons on the primary SINGLE TARGET rotation on slots that are quick access, like 1-2-3-4 and ctrl 1-2-3-4. That's it. Everything else can be where-ever on the bar! Every job is boring in this game if that is all you play, the whole point of being able to swap jobs is so that you do not get bored.

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So why then did you cite Dragoon as a "nightmare" when its very lengthy rotation fits perfectly fine on 1-2-3-4 and ctrl/atl/shift 1-2-3-4? In fact, you have an extra button since it only uses seven of those keybinds.

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Originally Posted by MPK

There's already another thread for this

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And yet you have multiple troll accounts. lol

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

PvP combos in PvE is good idea, but with certain limitations. We definitely don't want all jobs pruned even more, but certain combos are begging to be turned into one button, like GNB cartridge combo, or RDM melee combo.

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We don't have an infinite amount of space. And we get new abilities anyway. I don't see it as taking away at all. I agree, DRG screams for consolidation with at least the AoE skills.

It comes down to how easy is it to mess it up. I've found that jobs like mechanist and dragoon are two that can be tricky to pull off while still paying attention to what is going on because memorization alone doesn't really cut it. Part of the reason I play warrior is that it is fairly easy to keep track of the battle field during savage fights compared to something like Dragoon without taking an optimization hit. I'm sure someone will come in and do the typical "well if you play it as your main you wont have problems", but the thing is I've seen people who play it as their main and have problems all the time.

Most common classes to end up face planted on the ground because they didn't dodge or do a mech right? Dragoon and Monk in most groups I've been in. It's not just HP or defense being lower, it's they literally don't have time to compute what is going on because their rotation to optimize damage is so complex compared to something like Warrior or even paladin.

Is it really balancing out things to make a job have complexity that exceeds ones ability to rely on memory? Sure, everyone is different. I'm betting there's at least a few people who will come debate me on it. But, I've played this game for 4+ years now. I have never seen a DPS in WoW screw up like people in FFXIV do.

Also going to preface and say that the "button bloat" problem with FFXIV has been a problem with it for ages. Because it has a slower GCD than other games, they sort of figured they could cram more into the bar than a game like Wild Star or WoW. The issue is that you still have memory limits as a human (longest sequence a human can remember is seven items. A lot of rotations can actually exceed this number which is why people have to glance at the bar). I've done so much bar reconfiguring to try and tackle the issue in terms of ergonomics, but at the end of the day if you got more than a seven button sequence there's only so many mental tricks you can pull without gazing at the bar and taking your attention off the arena.

But yeah the situation with the skills in the game is kind of... they do need to figure something out. Warrior is definitely far easier to use than Paladin or gunbreaker and it is how the skill rotation is designed that makes it that way. The Paladin has too many actions to manage. Maybe just get rid of fight or flight and make it so that you always use the spell combo when it's up, instead of dealing with that aspect. That or get rid of atonement. You got spirits within and circle of scorn already as extra one button rotation things to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

But yeah the situation with the skills in the game is kind of... they do need to figure something out. Warrior is definitely far easier to use than Paladin or gunbreaker and it is how the skill rotation is designed that makes it that way. The Paladin has too many actions to manage. Maybe just get rid of fight or flight and make it so that you always use the spell combo when it's up, instead of dealing with that aspect. That or get rid of atonement. You got spirits within and circle of scorn already as extra one button rotation things to deal with.

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I think that Paladin can feel different depending on your hotbar layout, but it does have a lot more of a GCD rotation than it once did, and even more utility than ever. I don't think these are bad things though. If you want a simpler class you can play something else that suits your style.

For example, Dark Knight just has a 3-button GCD combo that you spam and everything else is pressed off-cooldown. That may be simpler for some people, while for others it may feel like there are too many one-off buttons to press, but I think having these different tank setups gives you choice over what you prefer.

The problem with getting rid of Fight or Flight or Requiescat is that they have a role to play in powering up your attacks, and the animations feel very fulfilling in that respect. Starting off your Holy Spirit with Requiescat just feels really good.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I think that Paladin can feel different depending on your hotbar layout, but it does have a lot more of a GCD rotation than it once did, and even more utility than ever. I don't think these are bad things though. If you want a simpler class you can play something else that suits your style.

For example, Dark Knight just has a 3-button GCD combo that you spam and everything else is pressed off-cooldown. That may be simpler for some people, while for others it may feel like there are too many one-off buttons to press, but I think having these different tank setups gives you choice over what you prefer.

The problem with getting rid of Fight or Flight or Requiescat is that they have a role to play in powering up your attacks, and the animations feel very fulfilling in that respect. Starting off your Holy Spirit with Requiescat just feels really good.

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After playing it and running the target dummy I think all they really need to do is probably make Royal Authority turn into Atonement and Requiscat turn into Confiteor. They got some extra clout in the energy stuff. I can't remember when I last used Cover or Intervention, but I definitely spam Sheltron a ton.