[Suggestion] - Revise Party buffs (Strength in numbers) & (Comradery)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

One tank has always been enough. But there won't be only one PT to join.
Even with balance, you almost never need a 2nd tank, so this problem already exists.

But worse, nowadays, the one tank is almost always WAR. So your question needs to be: If a PT already has a WAR, why should they invite me, a PLD ? Because my Aura can be useful, and the WAR can still DD.

WAR should always be a DD first, because PLD is only designed to be a tank, so it have to be the main one.
Indeed, there's a lot of PLD with better equipment than mine but even those ones aren't invited, so it's basically useless. And "Go level another job" is a crap answer. Why make seven classes, if only three are useful ?

Do you realise that everything you say already exists in the game ? If you can, you'll always choose the best equipped people.
But a lot of people will invite a crappy equipped WAR or BLM over a good equipped DRG, PGL or PLD, because they use "the job !" (And in fact, you don't always check the stuff before inviting someone)

As as said, with these, I won't be invited if the PT already have each of my jobs. Nowadays I won't be invited if I don't have one of THE jobs. That's a pretty big difference.

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No, you don't get invited because you don't have one of THE job that the party is LACKING. Keyword, LACKING. Simple as that. Stacking class or one of each are both rigid, you MUST have this or that, IF you DONT have THIS OR THAT, tough luck, go cry some more. The problem is still there, nothing is fixed. The only way to get around that rigidity without fixing class balance, is to level all job. We're back to square one.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

You still don't get it do you?

If a party has a PLD, why should we extend the invitation to you, another PLD? Why? WHY? WHY? There is no point in doing so, because the buff doesn't stack!

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You are the one who doesn't seem to get it, lol

Why Why Why would you want 2 plds in a party in any situation ?

As far as I'm aware its easy to get a party in this game as any class (baring PLD because they suck at the moment), this thread is about making ever class more desirable, yes you can stack 4 blm's but you only get one buff, you pick one of each and you get all buffs (all buffs would probably lead to better DPS & better survivability over the course of the fight)

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For example, if for some reason WAR dmg become sucky and they can only tank without DD, give me a reason why we should invite more than one WAR. Also, between a WAR who have all job 50, using Primal Axe, wearing multiple melded-gear and has over 4,700 Hp, compared to a WAR with one job 50, using lvl 48 Bhuj and has single melded-gear with measly 4,000 Hp, who is it that going to get the oh-so-precious single WAR position in the pt?

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LOL I didn't know I could check peoples gear in the search menu prior to inviting them.

If they are both strangers they both have an equal chance of getting into the party unless I ask them what they are wearing, what they have melded etc (which could take a very long time)

More importantly this thread is about giving each class something unique to bring to a party, I don't understand why you would be against that.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

No, you don't get invited because you don't have one of THE job that the party is LACKING. Keyword, LACKING.

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Lacking ? You say that a PT will invite a 5th BLM because what ? They LACK BLMs ?

And AGAIN, "One of each would not be mandatory, it just have to be the best". The best strategy is ALWAYS rigid. You can't do the best with lesser stuff, lesser skils or a bad compo.

Ok let's look at that from a different angle.

I think you'll agree to say that there is "the best stuff", and arguably, there are "the best players".
I suppose you'll agree that different setups will have different efficiency.

So, what do you think would be the most efficient setup ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

One tank has always been enough. But there won't be only one PT to join.
Even with balance, you almost never need a 2nd tank, so this problem already exists.

But worse, nowadays, the one tank is almost always WAR. So your question needs to be: If a PT already has a WAR, why should they invite me, a PLD ? Because my Aura can be useful, and the WAR can still DD.

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I disagree with this. Would be different if the set up required the WAR to enter the fight in DPS gear .

That being said, with an 8-man group, encounter balance should be aiming for 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS. Singular mobs with static adds can only be used for so long. Other aspects of party dynamics need to be touched on, but that's a good starting point.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I disagree with this. Would be different if the set up required the WAR to enter the fight in DPS gear .

That being said, with an 8-man group, encounter balance should be aiming for 2 tanks, 2 healers and 4 DPS. Singular mobs with static adds can only be used for so long. Other aspects of party dynamics need to be touched on, but that's a good starting point.

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I agree on the need to move to other things besides the static adds, Single mobs and Melee AOE alone.

I'm not sure i agree on the party setup you mention though and i'll get into a few reasons why.

Number one its generally very obvious that DPS is often more popular and currently more plentiful. So to aim for only half (4) of an 8 man party as DPS is likely to cause some to have to switch from the class they enjoy playing as many other options would, all in all not as badly. I think SE would to well to look at their numbers and see exactly what the tank to healer to dps ratio is, and aim for that sort of party setup.

By either giving some current DPS classes some off-tank options/skills. Or just attempting to balance fights with more avoidable deadly attacks (<----- My preference assuming Server delay improvements) vs all out HP damage.

This could also help with getting Classes more involved since you can have a class help with some healing, spot healing or topping off HP bars.

Just a snippet of options i bring up because i think we'll be fooling ourselves if we assume that of 100% of players, 50% of them prefer Tank and or healer. I expect we'd see more of 1 Tank, 1 off tank/Tanky DD + Dedicated healer + "Off" healer/DD + rest DD.

I only expect such because of the evidence we see throughout many many MMOs of many many kinds. There is always a pleathora of Damage, a smattering of healers, and a lack of tanks. I don't think we should assume any different here.

My thoughts

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Originally Posted by Viritess

Number one its generally very obvious that DPS is often more popular and currently more plentiful. So to aim for only half (4) of an 8 man party as DPS is likely to cause some to have to switch from the class they enjoy playing as many other options would, all in all not as badly. I think SE would to well to look at their numbers and see exactly what the tank to healer to dps ratio is, and aim for that sort of party setup.

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Two tanks increases the possibility of having more complex mechanics or involving something that would require multiple dedicated tanks. Two healers more for the fact that healing in this game is still far from ideal and complete. Even then, I made that number taking how 10-man raids in WoW are set up (2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 DPS). I just don't feel right having 1 WHM be responsible for 7 people as well as themselves as well as tank healing. With two healers healing can be split and one could even be responsible for the tank(s) while the other is raid heals.

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This could also help with getting Classes more involved since you can have a class help with some healing, spot healing or topping off HP bars.

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I disagree with this, because it puts hybrids in a really bad spot and would have people put a full healer in that slot. PLD is already sort of boned because of Holy Succor (I still wonder who had the dumb idea of giving a tank off-healing).

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I expect we'd see more of 1 Tank, 1 off tank/Tanky DD + Dedicated healer + "Off" healer/DD + rest DD.

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This just creates a variation of the WAR, WHM, BLM BLM BLM BLM BLM party set up. I say leave the tanking to the tanks and the healing to the healers. Create occasional freak occurrences where ranged DPS has to tank something (like how Warlock and Moonkin tanks worked) and call it a day.