Asking people to improve is toxic, ageist, and ableist

Why do they even let this guy continue to make threads?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

eh, First off what do you expect you going to run into every aoe? not put on tank stance? ... the game already has so many simple parts... also there's nothing wrong with "elitist" if a person is willing to learn, to get better they will be kind and respectful and help that person learn.

Sounds like your just crying because you don't want to learn to get better... I doubt you have even asked questions on how to do w/e better.. just get defensive

---

Please stop being rude to players who might not have the time or energy to, or simply can't, "git gud".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Recently, I wrote a thread on why I was upset that the Bozjan storyline was locked behind a difficult critical engagement that was Extreme level or even Savage level.

---

I did it once. We had one wipe. From my point of view, its not harder than the current 24 man content.

I have Usher's syndrome. This genetical condition means my visual field is severely reduced (around 5 degrees) and I'm partially deaf. This means it's harder for me to spot most AoE that aren't spotted by looking below the character's feet or requires to keep track of several things at the same time (like Red Comet's multiple proximity AoE) and it's also hard to keep track of rotation/CDs while paying attention to the fight simultaneously. And yet, that doesn't stop me from trying to improve at all, by trying to move my sight around more, stop what I'm doing when mechanics is coming and practicing rotations to get accustomed to CDs plus mechanical memory. Not to say there is also people with several limiting disabilites that have ways to work around them to play MMO... which includes blind people!

You definitely can improve as a player, you just cba to commit to it. If you don't find engaging trying to overcome your weaknesses to play a game you enjoy, maybe you're not really enjoying it all and that's OK. But don't try to use it as a excuse to have everyone else cope with your unwillingness to do your best.

This thread would've gone another way if the problem posted was people just stating "git gud" without so much a word of advice, since it's just bashing for the sake of bashing and it hardly encourages people to actually improve. But... yeah, you had to post this.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...l-29436351.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Please stop being rude to players who might not have the time or energy to, or simply can't, "git gud".

---

Those who can read and understand are clearly at an advantage. She's not at all rude to you. But you're acting more like a little kid here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Please stop being rude to players who might not have the time or energy to, or simply can't, "git gud".

---

expect your being rude, expecting others to dumb down, if you don't have the time or energy maybe don't logon and play? or stick to single player aspects like fates...

it works both ways.. if your going to be lazy about it your basically being rude force others to take your lazy way


by the way, if your going to pull that here's something to think on I have Muscular Dystrophy i'm over twenty and i have manic depression, and a few other mental conditions some days i can hardly sit up and cook something to eat without my husband helping me, lucky ffxiv can played with a ps4 control which does help a lot since they are often rather light. However some days i know i have 0 energy are ability to move my hands and arms around to play the way some parts of the game requires which then I'll go chop trees or something so I don't put that on others.

so don't give me that bs please because honestly I find it personally insulting when someone sits there and acts like you are with those excuses

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

expect your being rude, expecting others to dumb down, if you don't have the time or energy maybe don't logon and play? or stick to single player aspects like fates...

it works both ways.. if your going to be lazy about it your basically being rude force others to take your lazy way


by the way, if your going to pull that here's something to think on I have Muscular Dystrophy i'm over twenty and i have manic depression, and a few other mental conditions some days i can hardly sit up and cook something to eat without my husband helping me, lucky ffxiv can played with a ps4 control which does help a lot since they are often rather light. However some days i know i have 0 energy are ability to move my hands and arms around to play the way some parts of the game requires which then I'll go chop trees or something so I don't put that on others.

so don't give me that bs please because honestly I find it personally insulting when someone sits there and acts like you are with those excuses

---

I do not expect others to dumb down. My point is that asking people to improve is toxic because 99% of the time, it's a passive-aggressive way to tell someone they're bad at the game and that they're lesser. If someone tells someone to "git gud", on face value that seems like they're just asking people to improve, but we all know that "git gud" is one of the most toxic insults in the gaming community right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

I do not expect others to dumb down. My point is that asking people to improve is toxic because 99% of the time, it's a passive-aggressive way to tell someone they're bad at the game and that they're lesser. If someone tells someone to "git gud", on face value that seems like they're just asking people to improve, but we all know that "git gud" is one of the most toxic insults in the gaming community right now.

---

I only read about you toxic here and toxic there. Simplify the fight so I can poke around my nose. Have you ever thought that you’re just lazy? You say things are hard. Yes then you practice the fight until you have managed the fight. Furthermore, it is your own fault to see sentences like “Then improve” as toxic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Please stop being rude to players who might not have the time or energy to, or simply can't, "git gud".

---

If you don't have the time to learn how to play the game, you don't have time to play the game. These things go hand in hand and fights do an amazing job of giving players a tutorial route of the mechanics before actually making them difficult.

Take the neir raid, puppet's bunker, the 1st boss and also can be applied to every single boss in each 24 man raid. They perform 1 set of mechanics at a time, nothing's combined. Just shows you what they got and can do. All you have to do is pay attention to what's happening, the thing just brought out a cannon? Maybe it shoots prolly? Oh I fell off cuz the cannon did a cone that blasts you off, alright noted. Etc continnue and hey, there's that cannon again but hey also this mechanic they also showed me earlier... So I just have to do this and this to not die/avoid damage? Neat!

It's very simple logic and if someone's saying they need someone to improve, they're not calling them bad or being passive aggressive at all. In fact, outright saying something like that to someone isn't passive in any regard. If I tell a dps that they need to improve and what on because they're dying or our dps check isn't being met.... I'm telling them that in order for the team to progress, the player must have a will to learn. Funny thing is, as mentioned above... this game has learning fused to playing the game. You can learn how mechanics work and your rotation all in one simply by playing. Even if you spent an hour a day or week on one singular fight., you have the ability to take note and learn what to do differently or better simply by analyzing what's going on. You can analyze your rotation, skills, mechanics, everything in the span of just a couple minutes. I have to agree with the "you might just be lazy" logic here because it sounds it.

But also this isn't the first troll thread you've started and kept going pointlessly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowX

I only read about you toxic here and toxic there. Simplify the fight so I can poke around my nose. Have you ever thought that you’re just lazy? You say things are hard. Yes then you practice the fight until you have managed the fight. Furthermore, it is your own fault to see sentences like “Then improve” as toxic.

---

Can you tell me how "git gud" is in any way constructive?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valic

If you don't have the time to learn how to play the game, you don't have time to play the game. These things go hand in hand and fights do an amazing job of giving players a tutorial route of the mechanics before actually making them difficult.

Take the neir raid, puppet's bunker, the 1st boss and also can be applied to every single boss in each 24 man raid. They perform 1 set of mechanics at a time, nothing's combined. Just shows you what they got and can do. All you have to do is pay attention to what's happening, the thing just brought out a cannon? Maybe it shoots prolly? Oh I fell off cuz the cannon did a cone that blasts you off, alright noted. Etc continnue and hey, there's that cannon again but hey also this mechanic they also showed me earlier... So I just have to do this and this to not die/avoid damage? Neat!

It's very simple logic and if someone's saying they need someone to improve, they're not calling them bad or being passive aggressive at all. In fact, outright saying something like that to someone isn't passive in any regard. If I tell a dps that they need to improve and what on because they're dying or our dps check isn't being met.... I'm telling them that in order for the team to progress, the player must have a will to learn. Funny thing is, as mentioned above... this game has learning fused to playing the game. You can learn how mechanics work and your rotation all in one simply by playing. Even if you spent an hour a day or week on one singular fight., you have the ability to take note and learn what to do differently or better simply by analyzing what's going on. You can analyze your rotation, skills, mechanics, everything in the span of just a couple minutes. I have to agree with the "you might just be lazy" logic here because it sounds it.

But also this isn't the first troll thread you've started and kept going pointlessly.

---

Instead of considering whether someone could just find it harder to understand certain mechanics, or considering whether this might be the first video game for some players, you immediately assume that they're just lazy, and then call them a troll. Don't you see that this is the exact toxicity and ageism I am talking about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Can you tell me how "git gud" is in any way constructive?

---

Then just ask how you're going to get better? But I can answer that right now. Watch videos, read guides about the classes, fights etc. Try yourself and see where you can improve. Ask other people for tips on how you can improve. Be it doing damage, doing crafts, etc. If you find certain mechanisms difficult, practice them. Or did you give up writing as a small child? No, you kept practicing until you could. And for many, it just seems like you're lazy. You want to simplify things that are not difficult. If you have problems with some things, then look for a troupe with whom you can practice the things until you get it without problems. No content is difficult in itself. You just have to understand it and learn it.

Even if you say " i don't want any hardcore content removed " but then say " castrum was too hard don't do it again pls " you are already removing the next "hardcore" content. As someone who is starting to get used to savage level, castrum whas the most fun thing to do in bozja.

I don't you MilitaryVet123, but the 1rst question that come in my mind is : Have you played a lot of extreme/savage before going into castrum? If not that explains why you where truggling. Castrum was a big challenge for you, so being lost and dying a lot is normal.

Players who expect everyone to not die a lot are fools because ALL the players need to do castrum to complete the story even players who didnt try extreme/savage once before.

i'll just leave that there : https://imgur.com/gXw6PDW

I believe it's okay to fail, as long as you learn. I'm not in my 30s yet, but i played with some ppl who are 40+ and are really really good (one day i played with a blm who was 80, with 99% parse on fflogs in a savage raid). Thoose guys didnt get good by magic they tried, failed and learned. Even if you can't learn as fast as others, you can't learn if you don't try. Even if you have some problems irl that makes learning harder, you have to try to get better.

So no i don't agree that castrum is too hard, if you die a lot that means you lack experience. I'm sure that if you try castrum again you won't die 12 times forever lol (if you do more than 1 try ofc).

I agree that many player need to get more patient with randoms. Not everyone learns fast, if you don't like that don't play with randoms (because you don't know what you'll get).

Normal raids are painfully easy not because newer players can't learn but because many players lack patience (fear of wipes and loosing time), because of that newer players don't get better (because they don't have to).

So it's either many players learn to be patient and have fun, or we focus only on getting the loot fast and everything will only get more boring for experienced/good players.

Almost everything in the last update is boring for me. I litterally feel sleepy when i farm for my bozjan weapons, so for me it's either i go into ultimate (tbh idk if i have the time and the will for that level of play) or wait hours for castrum to have something new and fun to play. Or i unsub to play something and i think it's the best option for me, even if i want to play ffXIV more (i'm still ranting i don't guive a f*ck).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Even if you say " i don't want any hardcore content removed " but then say " castrum was too hard don't do it again pls " ........

---

Please read my previous thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...cal-engagement

I said

Please give players an option to receive 50% Echo to complete the engagement with the understanding that they will forgo the Bozjan coins. I think this is a good compromise for older gamers like me.

I did not say that Castrum should be nerfed or deleted. I said that casual players who enjoy the story shouldn't have to fret over an extreme level content or hope that they will luckily get "carried" (ugh I hate that term) by pro players. The pro players can get their fancy high ilvl gear. I just want to complete the story without being smacked by comets and die 10 times in a single critical engagement and leave feeling dejected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Please read my previous thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...cal-engagement

I said

Please give players an option to receive 50% Echo to complete the engagement with the understanding that they will forgo the Bozjan coins. I think this is a good compromise for older gamers like me.

I did not say that Castrum should be nerfed or deleted. I said that casual players who enjoy the story shouldn't have to fret over an extreme level content or hope that they will luckily get "carried" (ugh I hate that term) by pro players. The pro players can get their fancy high ilvl gear. I just want to complete the story without being smacked by comets and die 10 times in a single critical engagement and leave feeling dejected.

---

Maybe that will work for players who only want story, finish castrum once and be done with it. You'll look good in castrum without a lot of effort and have fun with the custcenes after.
But that could make things easier for pro players as well and they don't want that. If a dps/heal can just tank aoes better than a normal tank, and deal great damage without any effort... Then with enough players who get the echo, the fight will become a joke even without a dmg increase.
Pro player who want challenge don't care about the high ilvl gear (tbh it only gets in the way of proper fun). Having a trophy is really nice tho (mounts works well or shiny weapons for ultimate seem great for that too).
The real problem is not the difficulty in castrum but other players. If you felt dejected because other players asked you to "git gud", that mean you actually want to be a good players (and any player can do that).
If you don't care about being bad, you won't feel dejected just because you died or because you didn't want to hear "just git good lmaoooo". You could just enjoy the carry and the custcenes after. By asking a 50% you are asking SE to just carry you to victory.
Or like i said earlier you want to look good before the cutscene (i'm not telling it's a bad thing i feel the same when i was bad and died a lot before a cutscene xD), then yes your idea works for you but it will affect the enjoyment for other players (depending on how much players take the echo ofc).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Maybe that will work for players who only want story, finish castrum once and be done with it. You'll look good in castrum without a lot of effort and have fun with the custcenes after.
But that could make things easier for pro players as well and they don't want that. If a dps/heal can just tank aoes better than a normal tank, and deal great damage without any effort... Then with enough players who get the echo, the fight will become a joke even without a dmg increase.
Pro player who want challenge don't care about the high ilvl gear (tbh it only gets in the way of proper fun). Having a trophy is really nice tho (mounts works well or shiny weapons for ultimate seem great for that too).
The real problem is not the difficulty in castrum but other players. If you felt dejected because other players asked you to "git gud", that mean you actually want to be a good players (and any player can do that).
If you don't care about being bad, you won't feel dejected just because you died or because you didn't want to hear "just git good lmaoooo". You could just enjoy the carry and the custcenes after. By asking a 50% you are asking SE to just carry you to victory.
Or like i said earlier you want to look good before the cutscene (i'm not telling it's a bad thing i feel the same when i was bad and died a lot before a cutscene xD), then yes your idea works for you but it will affect the enjoyment for other players (depending on how much players take the echo ofc).

---

I'm not sure how it will affect other players if the 50% Echo is optional and personal, not group wide.

@ MilitaryVet123
You should just get better at the game bruh, idk. /shrug

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

I'm not sure how it will affect other players if the 50% Echo is optional and personal, not group wide.

---

It depends on how much player will take it, if half of the team (who know their basics and have a brain) take it then the raid will become easier. Players with echo will start to carry players who wanted to play the normal way.
Buf with players who don't want to learn then yes, no difference. They will get carried even with echo lmao.

My friend has a 65 year old woman in her static that does content just fine so maybe this game just isn't for you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pastperfect

My friend has a 65 year old woman in her static that does content just fine so maybe this game just isn't for you?

---

Actually it is for me. Yoshi P said this game is first and foremost designed for people who are casual and may not dedicate 20 hours a week just to improve at some video game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Maybe that will work for players who only want story, finish castrum once and be done with it. You'll look good in castrum without a lot of effort and have fun with the custcenes after..

---

Some games like SWTOR have a great option: three levels of difficulty. Anyone who just wanted to play the story and watch cutscenes chose this option: "story mode" and enjoyed the game without wasting a lot of time and getting what they wanted, story and custcenes. Those who wanted the maximum difficulty chose the "master mode". There would be no controversy if the SE made this grading, each group of players would enjoy the game, including unique rewards and achievements for increased difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Furthermore, people assume that it is natural to be able to concentrate on mechanics over an hour. I could not because of my ADHD and I easily get distracted. During the Castrum engagement that I did with my friends, it took every ounce of energy to make myself concentrate on doing the mechanics. However, with the insane chat spam and people all shouting different things in yell chat, it becomes extremely difficult to focus on what I need to do because of my ADHD.

---

Fun fact about the military: they DO NOT enlist people who have autism, ADHD, and Asperger’s Syndrome. I’m autistic and I cannot be enlisted in the military as they will not allow people who have it. Mainly because if a person takes medication in order to function like a normal person, it’s an issue as the medication can be abused by the user and other people. Plus people with mental disabilities cannot make good decisions, and that’s a HUGE no-no in the military as it can cost the lives of other soldiers as well as that person. A soldier is responsible for themselves and others in their troop.

So please get your facts right when you portray yourself with a person with a “disability,” as if you are disabled, you can’t do anything functional. People with autism and the like can have disabilities, but it’s more like differences. With my autism, I can function like a normal person. I just have trouble following directions and understanding the emotions of others as well as expressing my own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Actually it is for me. Yoshi P said this game is first and foremost designed for people who are casual and may not dedicate 20 hours a week just to improve at some video game.

---

Where do you get this figure? 20 hours a week? If you literally read a guide on your job (maybe 20-30 minutes) and apply that logic to how you play (perhaps another 20 mins reorganizing hotbars) you'll be doing well enough to not be a burden in anything below EX content.

No one requires 20 hours a week of 'practice' it just takes a bit of common sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

Fun fact about the military: they DO NOT enlist people who have autism, ADHD, and Asperger’s Syndrome. I’m autistic and I cannot be enlisted in the military as they will not allow people who have it. Mainly because if a person takes medication in order to function like a normal person, it’s an issue as the medication can be abused by the user and other people. Plus people with mental disabilities cannot make good decisions, and that’s a HUGE no-no in the military as it can cost the lives of other soldiers as well as that person. A soldier is responsible for themselves and others in their troop.

So please get your facts right when you portray yourself with a person with a “disability,” as if you are disabled, you can’t do anything functional. People with autism and the like can have disabilities, but it’s more like differences. With my autism, I can function like a normal person. I just have trouble following directions and understanding the emotions of others as well as expressing my own.

---

You do realize that mild forms of ADHD and autism exist? I do not require medication to stay functional, and yet I can not be described as neurotypical at the same time. Stop gatekeeping disability.

It depends on how you ask, sometimes people give constructive feedback, sometimes people are super rude about it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

You do realize that mild forms of ADHD and autism exist? I do not require medication to stay functional, and yet I can not be described as neurotypical at the same time. Stop gatekeeping disability.

---

ROFL, thanks for the laughs.

After reading this thread my heart really sank. Ive been enjoying bozja after trying it the past couple of days but now im done. If it is on par with savages or extremes then forget it im not interested. I play the game to relax and have fun. I really feel where the OP is coming from. Ultra shame that story is being gated by difficulty. Thought I left that behind in my previous MMO.

These kind of troll posts are the worst because it kinda just throws genuine complaints about ableist and ageist (or whatever -ist) complaints under the bus a lot of the time

Usually I try to give benefit of the doubt but I have a real hard time believing this post was made in good faith

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

After reading this thread my heart really sank. Ive been enjoying bozja after trying it the past couple of days but now im done. If it is on par with savages or extremes then forget it im not interested. I play the game to relax and have fun. I really feel where the OP is coming from. Ultra shame that story is being gated by difficulty. Thought I left that behind in my previous MMO.

---

On the off chance that this post IS legit... It's not. As someone who regularly runs both extremes and Savage, the only fights in Bozja that remotely compare are the red chocobo of BS and maybe the lich dude in Castrum, and only because the fire + earth element combo seems to just wreck a lot of people when it comes up. 90% of Bozja is just fate grinding, and the "raids" can honestly be completed with half the raid putting in bare minimum effort. I don't know how that'll change in EW, but I do know I had plenty of runs where we had dudes using bad/no essences and dying like six times a fight and that didn't stop us from making it to the end. Take like 5-10 minutes to skim a guide and you'll be fine.

Oh it's this guy, carry on everybody there's nothing to see here.

It's really insulting when people see a post from someone and then assume that because their skill level and ability to play the game and their overall experience with the game is so vastly different from their own, that there simply must be no other option than they are trolling.

Buzzwords from total ignorance which will be promptly ignored. I will accept feedback and improve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It's really insulting when people see a post from someone and then assume that because their skill level and ability to play the game and their overall experience with the game is so vastly different from their own, that there simply must be no other option than they are trolling.

---

It's a Titanmen thread, it's nothing new from this guy since he apparently has a million alt accounts. I wish people would just stop posting on his threads and let them die with 0 replies and report them as they pop up. Or at least SE get some mods in here and start banning these accounts and a few other trolls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

It's really insulting when people see a post from someone and then assume that because their skill level and ability to play the game and their overall experience with the game is so vastly different from their own, that there simply must be no other option than they are trolling.

---

Dude, this guy is known around here. He has several alt accounts, a lot of which are named as just direct references to gay...ehm...media... Including this one.

Well when furthering the content relies on one person to stop failing to learn a mechanic after 20 wipes, they deserve it. Frankly I "tolerate" having to play this game online because its so good. If I can compromise, you can too.

feel better though, in wow if the group hadn't disbanded by the 3rd wipe, they would just kick the slacker. you like that better than words?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alestorm

It's a Titanmen thread, it's nothing new from this guy since he apparently has a million alt accounts. I wish people would just stop posting on his threads and let them die with 0 replies and report them as they pop up. Or at least SE get some mods in here and start banning these accounts and a few other trolls.

---

You're responding to him yourself right now though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raeodor

Well when furthering the content relies on one person to stop failing to learn a mechanic after 20 wipes, they deserve it. Frankly I "tolerate" having to play this game online because its so good. If I can compromise, you can too.

feel better though, in wow if the group hadn't disbanded by the 3rd wipe, they would just kick the slacker. you like that better than words?

---

I remember the one time I had an LFR group fall apart after ONE wipe. Was actually pretty hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

Recently, I wrote a thread on why I was upset that the Bozjan storyline was locked behind a difficult critical engagement that was Extreme level or even Savage level.

---

I couldn't get much past reading this honestly. This couldn't be further from the truth.

First off, the CE doesn't even need the max players to complete, 48 if it's the one I think you're talking about. My first clear was with 34 players. It's not even close to extreme let along savage level of difficulty. You clearly haven't stepped into a savage fight. Also I have a friend in my FC from Australia playing on the NA servers. They have a pretty high ping AND are also very VERY casual. They were able to complete the CE with zero problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilitaryVet123

However, with the insane chat spam and people all shouting different things in yell chat, it becomes extremely difficult to focus on what I need to do because of my ADHD.

---

Ignore it while you're doing an encounter. I do and it's fine.

when leveling is simple and jobs are toothless and instances dont have mechs and solo instances have a very easy mode, these people just spawn in expecting more to be done to make it a cakewalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

that there simply must be no other option than they are trolling.

---

I mean, TM/his RMT group is trolling, but allow me this honest question
are you really that oblivious that you can't discern a cookie cutter troll like TM or is that maybe your way of trolling?

hell, almost every post of yours is responding to some obvious bait with 'sincerity', whining about WoW and it's elitism in some way or how glad you are that you're not playing WoW anymore (while moral grandstanding nonetheless), I'd go as far and say that every 2nd or at least 3rd post of yours is about one of those topics
one could argue that you're one, too, albeit one of the slower burn kind /shrug