Idea for more relevant Mentor Icons for Mentors

I'd rather them focus on quality of life things that actually matter then trying to downgrade or change something as trivial as a mentor crown icon, people are gonna chase it no matter what icon u put up there cause it's something that sets them apart from other players.

They should focus on things like the hunt scholars in the zones telling us how long ago the A ranks in that zone were killed or when they'll be spawning again, focus on improving the job gauge icons by adding more or less things that help u keep track of stuff on your job gauge, things like that.

Though I disagree with your thread's point I will say you did an awesome job explaining your point, I liked the icons and all that u used, I could care less about mentor stuff but your icons did look cool so kudos to u on the work u put in your post.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

What's the point of collecting such data? Especially since there is absolutely NO way to be able to encounter every single mentor on the DC to be able to tell whether they are a good mentor or not.

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That's not how stats works. The more data you collect, the more accurate the picture it depicts. You don't need to collect data on every single mentor to see how mentors as a whole fair. If you get data on 1000 mentors, and only encounter 1 bad mentor every 100. Then there's an extremely high chance that within 1000 mentors you haven't encountered the rate of bad mentors is similar. The more data, the more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

I'm a healer main. And I started this game as a healer main and have been healing since 2.0. I CANNOT accept healers DPSing while there are people in a party that aren't at 100% HP.

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This is part of the issue. You're expecting something that isn't good practice out of a population of players who's inherently going to be more experienced. As a healer in the FF14 meta, one of the first things you should learn in order to get better is to not keep your party at 100%. It's like... Top 3 things to learn as a healer, alongside avoiding GCD healing as much as possible and keeping yourself alive. In addition to this, some jobs get higher healing priority. It usually goes AST ogcd > SCH fairy > WHM ogcd + afflatus > SCH ogcd > AST/SCH GCD > WHM GCD (changes apply based on a bunch of stuff but that's a basic guideline). So if you're in normal content with a WHM/SCH comp, chances are the sch isn't going to need to heal much. And it's even less if the WHM overwrite's whispering dawn "because they need everyone up to 100%".
FF14 is a game where you need to work hard to heal as little as possible. It's even required by the game in the harder content. It's only normal that people would practice in easier content and occasionally fail there too.

Yes some people are going to suck. My data has about 10% mentor healers with bellow average skills. But again it could be from many things, not being familiar with the job (tunnel vision. This is very frequent in 24man for instance since most run them on alt jobs), testing stuff, bad healer synergy, etc. etc. And bad/greedy attitude is just one of many.

And standing in low incidence AoE for extra damage is min/max play, not elitism. There's quite a big difference. Expecting everyone to play the way you want them to however....
Like I said, there are so many aoes or mechanics in this game not worth dodging in normal modes, it isn't shocking at all. Hell there are mechanics not worth dodging in ex and savage fights too. You wouldn't lose your mind over a sprout getting hit by an aoe he didn't manage to get out of, you just throw something at them and move on. Same with dps who stay in an aoe, you just throw something at them and move on. The only difference is that the later is compensating you for your effort and most likely contributing more to the party than the first. And if you want to be cheeky, you leave them low for a bit so they have to dodge stuff.

Lastly, again. Mentors do not need to help everyone. You should be there to help those that have questions, want advice etc. etc. But you don't need to go out of your way to find people to help. There is no such requirement. Furthermore, everyone has a different take on how they want to receive help, so that's even less reason to butt into people's experience. I know I sure as hell don't like it when people explain mechanics to me on my blind runs. Did I die? will I die? Maybe, but I want to figure this out myself. I don't say anything since it isn't that big of a deal but I do wish they would keep to themselves until asked. And I tend to extend that courtesy to the people I play with. Silent mentors are perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

I'm a healer main. And I started this game as a healer main and have been healing since 2.0. I CANNOT accept healers DPSing while there are people in a party that aren't at 100% HP. The next hit for those people can be lethal.

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You do not need keep people topped off, and co-healers who do keep people topped off, especially if they aren't doing any damage, are going to discourage healing even more. No reason for someone to heal if their co-healer isn't dealing damage, because that means they have all the time in the world to hard cast heals. Hard casting is for damage spells unless you absolutely (rare) must cast a heal.

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As for silent mentors and defensive replies - I'm not sure what people that became mentors expected? There will always be people that refuse help. I don't see why people let past experiences with yelling newbies get in a way of giving advice to someone else.

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I do not give information unless it's requested not because I'm worried what the person might say, but because I will not tell people what to do in, for example, a new boss mechanic until they've seen it at least once and specifically ask what to do there. I will not rob people of their once in a lifetime chance at going in blind.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

So if you're in normal content with a WHM/SCH comp, chances are the sch isn't going to need to heal much. And it's even less if the WHM overwrite's whispering dawn "because they need everyone up to 100%".

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If there is already Whispering Dawn on the party there is no reason to cast Medica II unless there is a lot of damage. Plus Medica II doesn't overwrite Whispering Dawn. But I'm talking about instances where people have no HoTs on them. The amount of times I or someone else was left with 50-70% of HP with no healing and died to the next raid/party-wide AoE is astronomical. You cannot just leave people below 100% with no HoTs and expect them to magically survive.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Lastly, again. Mentors do not need to help everyone. You should be there to help those that have questions, want advice etc. etc. But you don't need to go out of your way to find people to help. There is no such requirement.

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I understand that but people shouldn't base the way the act with newbies off of other newbies (just like people shouldn't instantly think the mentor will be 100% a bad one). I don't think many people would scream at a mentor for simply letting everyone know at the beginning of a dungeon/raid/trial that they can explain/help if necessary.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You do not need keep people topped off, and co-healers who do keep people topped off, especially if they aren't doing any damage, are going to discourage healing even more. No reason for someone to heal if their co-healer isn't dealing damage, because that means they have all the time in the world to hard cast heals. Hard casting is for damage spells unless you absolutely (rare) must cast a heal.

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I can keep people topped off and do plenty of damage. Especially with WHM that has a million instant skills.
Casting heals isn't that rare. Medica II/Aspected Helios should be used when AoE HoTs or shields needed, same with Succor.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I do not give information unless it's requested not because I'm worried what the person might say, but because I will not tell people what to do in, for example, a new boss mechanic until they've seen it at least once and specifically ask what to do there. I will not rob people of their once in a lifetime chance at going in blind.

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There is no need to give any info to let people know that you can help if needed. People that are new to the game might not feel confident enough to ask questions unless you tell them that they can.

Hello!

I would like to bump this thread with my own suggestions of Mentor/Returner/Novice icons! :)

After a lengthy discussion between friends & fellow Mentors, we came up with a few ideas :

- Option 1 -

- Mentor (general) : Sun Icon :cool:
- Mentor (PVE) : Tree Icon
- Mentor (Crafting): Watering Can Icon
- Mentor (PVP) : Rake Icon
- Returner & Novice icons left as they currently are (Blooming Flower & Sprout)

- Option 2 -

- Mentor (general) : Watering Can Icon
- Mentor (PVE) : Watering Can + Sword icon
- Mentor (PVP) : Watering Can + Flag icon
- Mentor (Crafting) : Watering Can + Hammer icon
- Returner & Novice icons left as they currently are

- Option 3 -

- Mentor (general) : Blooming Flower (gold)
- Mentor (PVE) : Blooming Flower (blue)
- Mentor (PVP) : Blooming Flower (red)
- Mentor (Crafting) : Blooming Flower (green)
- Returner : Plant (no flower)
- Novice : Sprout (as it currently is ingame)

We had more combinations & suggestions possible but I don't want to make this message too lengthy.

Please, SE, hear us out! Make our Mentor icons into garden/flower themed ones!
Let them reflect our true purpose as Mentors : to nurture and let grow. To teach and let learn!

Thank you for reading this,

Spis (and some other mentors) of Shiva server

Anything that adds anything near the name is an immediate no! Just becomes a vanity fest for players at that point; "Hey look I have a pretty icon near my name".


I think they need to go back to the drawing board with what a mentor should be, how one qualifies for it, and what their expectancy is. A simple in-game tag strictly for the novice network should suffice I think, and a roulette, otherwise just remove it from all other channels of communication and the general in-game tag. it hasn't really achieved what they probably had in mind for I think. Further, I do think that 'mentor' players should be held more accountable particular when reports are made of them in game, such as permanently being stripped of it.

I think people severely overestimate the amount of people that become a mentor just to have a special symbol next to their character's name. Furthermore, it doesn't really matter what the symbol happens to be - if it's 'unique' then there's always going to be a portion of players who pursue it just to have the illusion of being special.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think people severely overestimate the amount of people that become a mentor just to have a special symbol next to their character's name. Furthermore, it doesn't really matter what the symbol happens to be - if it's 'unique' then there's always going to be a portion of players who pursue it just to have the illusion of being special.

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I say more people want to be mentors to keep novice chat. Probably, some kind of op-in general chat alongside a certain degree of moderation for the novice channel will help.

WoW has this system where only their version of novice players can see mentor icons and only their version of mentors can see novice icons. I believe you can't even see your own icons.

I think people not being able to see novice icon is unnecessary in FFXIV as people might be more understanding/willing to help them, but it's probably good if people can't see mentor icons unless you're a novice (or a returner, I suppose).

Symbol for Toxic waste? :p

Coming back to this thread, I've changed my mind about a watering can idea i had, now I think it should be just as ugly as sqeenix can make it. Of course not so ugly its NSFW, but ugly enough it can keep people who only want a pretty icon beside their name away. Makes it identifiable too, so people know players with the ugly af icon are there to help.