BYE FC Exclusivity for this round. New housing Indo.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

The fact you are so adamant in terminating 6% of the housing (that you dont even know gets used) means anything that isn't FC-related (while also complying with your personal belief of it having to be X number of players in said FC, which is laughable in its own right, given a single person can get four of their alts into an FC and circumvent the problem. Almost as if that's already occuring! Huh.) is also under the same scrutiny of "It's not needed, thus get rid of it."

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I've also pointed out that loophole many a time, and you'd know this if you had actually been reading what I have been posting rather than skimming and going off of your hot take.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

They can easily fix the FC player requirement in just a flick of the switch. Make it so three / four unique accounts need to be considered active within a set time.

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And that would be a very solid solution to the entire shell FC problem, and I would be fine if that check was done on a per FC basis. I mean, we're talking about putting another 300 or so houses back onto the market, and that's the equivalent of adding another ward to each neighborhood (and then some) by fixing the FC loophole.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Why did you pick 3 or less? 3 seems like an odd number to pick for a FC when trying to look at potential shell/private FC's when 4 is what is needed to create one. 6 percent seems like a pretty big number for FC's of 3 or less given in my view 4 would be the more common number even for Shell FC's Those creating them with 3 alts and their main would have no reason to delete one and be below the required number I would think?

What is the percent if you look at 4 man FC's or less?

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You need 4 people to create an FC, so that would be a good minimum bar as the FC would have less members than signers, indicating a likely failed FC. You can't have alts sign the FC charter, so it's got to be at least one other service account.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

They can't.

At the point the person tries to purchase a house for an FC the system checks the current members. If it's 3 or less it won't let them buy the plot. If it's 4 they're eligible to buy it.

Yes they can then go below 4 members and still keep the house, but that's not what you asked...

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Ok, why should an FC that drops below the number to people required to purchase it be allowed to keep it?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Ok, why should an FC that drops below the number to people required to purchase it be allowed to keep it?

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Why shouldn't they lose keep it? You'd just be punishing real players.

Scenario: A group of four friends create an FC. They buy a house. One of the friends leaves the FC. Maybe they fall out, maybe they transfer server, maybe they want to move to a bigger FC who knows... The point is they leave and now there are only three people.

The remaining three friends are still friends, but with your rules they're now forced to get someone else into the FC just so they can keep their house. Someone not in their circle of friends. Awkward.

Of course in reality if that rule actually happened it wouldn't work out like you want anyway. People would just buy the "Starter edition" (A Realm Reborn) and in their 30 free days create a character/join it to the FC and never touch the account ever again. Your four person requirement was met and the person only had to spend a little real money (Starter Edition is often very cheap/on sale).

You'd have to also make sure that people in the FC were active/playing... and that's just unrealistic. If that were to be implemented even medium sized FCs would risk losing their houses, especially during content droughts like we just had before 5.3 where a lot of people were unsubbed.

I know the system doesn't work the way you want it to, but this is how SE have it setup. It's far from perfect, but at least FCs don't have to worry about potentially losing their house if a few people leave.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

if you had actually been reading what I have been posting rather than skimming and going off of your hot take.

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You mean like what you have done throughout your entire existence on the housing forums, refusing to read the entire posts put before you and only cherry-picking things you can warp to your own delusional stance? Shocker.

I'm surprised you haven't gone onto the "Selfish is bad" tangent again here. Since that seems to be your main (and the weakest) gun in your arsenal.

Anyways, back on topic. I sincerely doubt enforcing even more strict rules on FCs (And actually removing housing from players, which SE doesn't do. Even to banned users. If someone is banned, the house still has to let the timer tick down!) will actually release 300 plots per server. Infact, I'd ask where you got that number from purely for evidence.

It's like people demanding auto-demo to be back on. Yes, it's meant to ensure there's always plots to buy, but the amount of plots it actually makes vacant is staggeringly low. By changing the rules / returning to previous systems, the players will simply adjust to comply with those new rules and nothing more. People all around my Private house have stopped playing for the past few months and I damn well know, once auto-demo or demolition in general returns, they'll log in for about 30 mins every month just to keep the plot they have. Nothing SE can do about it since they would be complying with the ruleset.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Of course in reality if that rule actually happened it wouldn't work out like you want anyway. People would just buy the "Starter edition" (A Realm Reborn) and in their 30 free days create a character/join it to the FC and never touch the account ever again. Your four person requirement was met and the person only had to spend a little real money (Starter Edition is often very cheap/on sale).

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Depending on how it's implemented, if it's simply a character check, someone could roll an alt, and invite it into the FC. Yeah, there's a random alt there, but it still keeps it to just the three of them.

If we're going by an active subscription check, then you'd just need four active subscriptions to keep things going, so someone can spin up a subscription and keep things going that way. That means that a starter edition works for a bit... but they'd need to keep it going, especially if the timer is something like a countdown/count up (where a state needs to be met for as long as it was counting down for things to be back to normal). I would imagine that most FCs have enough active subs that they'd generally be fine.

Either way, there should be a grace period so the housing delete doesn't happen immediately when the deletion condition is met.

Under normal circumstances, that shouldn't be a problem. However....

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

If that were to be implemented even medium sized FCs would risk losing their houses, especially during content droughts like we just had before 5.3 where a lot of people were unsubbed.

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That's referring to the pure weirdness that is 2020, so exceptions should be made... because it's 2020.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You mean like what you have done throughout your entire existence on the housing forums, refusing to read the entire posts put before you and only cherry-picking things you can warp to your own delusional stance? Shocker.

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No, I pick the key points out of a post and respond to that - which means I'm also editing out a bunch of emotional reactions and red herrings because it's not really relevant to the discussion.

But sure, call me delusional if it makes you feel better.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Infact, I'd ask where you got that number from purely for evidence.

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Someone was throwing around numbers, and that's the number they were pitching as number of shell FCs. Without compiling and digging through the census information, there's not going to be a better way to dissect it, and I'm pretty sure Mew is unwilling to provide finer detail for their information either through lack of desire or coding prowess.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

It's like people demanding auto-demo to be back on. Yes, it's meant to ensure there's always plots to buy, but the amount of plots it actually makes vacant is staggeringly low.

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We're in a situation where every little thing that can be done helps improve the overall situation because SE can't add in the hardware needed to support more than about 3 wards. That also means closing loopholes in the system (ex: shell FCs) so there's more supply that can be better utilized.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

People all around my Private house have stopped playing for the past few months and I damn well know, once auto-demo or demolition in general returns, they'll log in for about 30 mins every month just to keep the plot they have. Nothing SE can do about it since they would be complying with the ruleset.

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That behavior is also why I've also been advocating for a way forward if someone really wants to keep their assets. Granted, most of those paths involve additional subscriptions, but there's a way forward if someone wants to keep it. That also disincentivizes hoarding - which is at the root of all of this.

Surprised housing still involving this amount of drama. SE is constantly adding wards. Plots are freeing up practically on a daily basis. There's even a housing market out there if you are desperate and have some gil.
The options are there.
The way I see it, anyone half commited that wants a house either has it at this point or can have it.

I don't see SE changing the housing system radically here. Something tells me it's in their best interest to keep housing demand high and the availability of plots somewhat limited. Let's not forget that this makes people be more attached to their homes and therefore subs.

No?

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Surprised housing still involving this amount of drama. SE is constantly adding wards. Plots are freeing up practically on a daily basis. There's even a housing market out there if you are desperate and have some gil.
The options are there.
The way I see it, anyone half commited that wants a house either has it at this point or can have it.

I don't see SE changing the housing system radically here. Something tells me it's in their best interest to keep housing demand high and the availability of plots somewhat limited. Let's not forget that this makes people be more attached to their homes and therefore subs.

No?

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Its a clever way to keep player's subbed honestly. Its also why they are hesitant to add more new wards right away. Saturate the the wards with plots and there is no incentive to retain a sub if you know you can take a long hiatus and get a plot right away when you get back.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Surprised housing still involving this amount of drama.

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As long there gonna be a limit, there will always be drama.

Just gonna hop in and say I'm glad this is getting addressed, and I'm glad the exclusivity is going out the window as well, but this won't address the core issues. It does seem as if those will be getting addressed according to the little update from the dev. It's rough but pretty sure every one of the new houses will be sold within a few moments of the servers going back up after patch, and we'll see a horde of new complaints about how it should have been/ what needed to be done/ etc. Just hoping the coming fix is legit true unlimited housing that foregoes the ward system and people can just get a house and find something new to complain about.

I would not gladly give my house up for one of the non-ward houses (if that is even what is going to be coming or not I have no idea really), but if there were some info as to what it would entail like you can upgrade it or get what ever size you prefer, I'd consider it honestly. I don't get enough from the persistent ward idea to justify in my mind what is going on daily, hourly, etc. Maybe out of the 5 or 6 times I've even seen a neighbor by the mb, I'd figure two conversations is all I've had out of it. Well might have been more but you get it. I am not particularly attached to the neighborhood I am in because of the people there. I am more attached to living in the Goblet and loving Ul'Dah. Perhaps my dream of having a Goblet Large will come to pass, but no way to know until it happens.