Is a level skip worth it?

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

The point of Gula's argument is that they hate leveling but like the rest of the game. In the context of Gula's argument, you're saying that they hate SAM and PLD so they must hate the rest of the game too. However, just like how the game allows you to change your class/job if you hate it, the level skip potion allows people to skip stuff they hate to play stuff they like.

(Also, 90% of the content you've been bringing up isn't skipped by level skip potions)

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It's the same concept. If you don't like progression, maybe RPGs aren't worth your money. Spend your money how you like, but your not getting value from it.

Grinding the same dungeon over and over =/= progression
playing POTD over and over =/= progression
spamming buttons on the placard =/= progression

however...

playing through raid tiers with your FC = progression
trying to clear every extreme trial synced = progression
making gil on the market board is still a bit of a grind but still = progression
playing through the MSQ = progression
and ultimately, playing the things about the game you enjoy = progression

Maybe you have a differing view on what the word 'progression' means to you, but grinding a class/job by doing the same thing over and over is not the only part of an RPG, especially not an MMO RPG.
While in single player games, its more about the journey, in MMOs, leveling is about the end goal, not how or what you do to get there. Regardless of whether or not I choose to buy the skip potion (still deciding), if there wasn't enjoyable end-game content waiting for me at the end of the grind, then why waste time/money leveling to get to that point?
Imagine a game where the only part of it was slowly leveling your class/job up and that was it. Nothing to use that job in. No story, no end-game content, just leveling. Maybe you'd like that, and if so that's alright, but at least in my opinion, that's not a very good payoff for all that work.

This is mainly my own opinion, and maybe I'm in the minority here, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that yet.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Grinding the same dungeon over and over =/= progression
playing POTD over and over =/= progression

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It is if you're progressing.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

While in single player games, its more about the journey, in MMOs, leveling is about the end goal, not how or what you do to get there.

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Leveling isn't just about the end goal. There wouldn't be any point to leveling if it weren't appealing. There wouldn't even be a need for a leveling system if that were the case.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Imagine a game where the only part of it was slowly leveling your class/job up and that was it. Nothing to use that job in. No story, no end-game content, just leveling. Maybe you'd like that, and if so that's alright, but at least in my opinion, that's not a very good payoff for all that work.

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Well in your hypothetical game, there's no progression because nothing changes in gameplay. One of my favorite parts of an RPG is when I'm low level and I'm constantly experiencing a dopamine rush from rapidly unlocking new content and gameplay. It's some of the most dynamic part of an RPG.

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Originally Posted by Edax

It is if you're progressing.

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It would be progressing if you're doing a dungeon, POTD, or HoH for the first time and getting to new floors. The key words here are 'over and over'. Once you've cleared that content, you'll need to play it again and again to level up, even though you've already experienced everything in that dungeon. If there was new and interesting content on every run (to at least a reasonable number of runs), then playing multiple times could be progression, but that's not the case.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Leveling isn't just about the end goal. Being max level isn't all that appealing in RPGs for many.

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That is true for normal RPGs as being max level with maxed gear typically means that you can easily cheese every single boss in the game, but in an MMO like this one, there's not only level sync (and item level sync), but also content meant for players at max level. The final bosses of the other Final Fantasy games aren't meant to face maxed leveled players, but rather the average leveled player for that point in the game.
However, this game provides content like Eden raids and the Yorha raids (and the current MSQ) that can ONLY be accessed at level 80, meaning you need to be at max level to experience the end game content. So if you're the type of person who doesn't want to be at max level (not saying YOU are, but for the people that are), why would you be playing an MMO that requires you to have jobs at maximum level for certain content?
I'm working on the post-Stormblood stuff right now on my main, which requires me to be level 70 or above or I cannot even access that part of the story. What if other non-MMO RPGs started keeping you from finishing them if you didn't reach the maximum level? Would you even want to play them if you couldn't finish the story without a massive grind?

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Originally Posted by Edax

Well in your hypothetical game, there's no progression because nothing changes in gameplay. One of my favorite parts of an RPG is when I'm low level and I'm constantly experiencing a dopamine rush from rapidly unlocking new content and gameplay. It's some of the most dynamic part of an RPG.

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If that's what you like, then do that. I admit that making alts and speeding through the first 15-20 levels with the Helm of Light is pretty fun, but you should at least have some higher goals for your main account, do you agree with at least that? (Your account has a lv 80 samurai in Shirogane btw so you clearly do)

Not sure if it's been answered, but if you buy a skip potion, do all the job quests auto-complete? Because I'm kind of enjoying the DRK quests. Currently at level 56, but tanking isn't really my thing, and I'm only leveling it to get all four roles to 80 so I can unlock the final role quest cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Not sure if it's been answered, but if you buy a skip potion, do all the job quests auto-complete?

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They do skip the job quests, so if you're interested in the DRK quests, you may want to avoid the skip potion. Although, I heard you can go back and do certain cleared quests with New Game+, so you may want to look into that. You might be able to go back and play them if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

It would be progressing if you're doing a dungeon, POTD, or HoH for the first time and getting to new floors. The key words here are 'over and over'. Once you've cleared that content, you'll need to play it again and again to level up, even though you've already experienced everything in that dungeon. If there was new and interesting content on every run (to at least a reasonable number of runs), then playing multiple times could be progression, but that's not the case.

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By that logic, progression ends after you've killed your first mob at level 1 and every mob kill after that is somehow invalid. That's not how that works, you don't need to have to do something completely new every time to progress in an RPG.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

That is true for normal RPGs as being max level with maxed gear typically means that you can easily cheese every single boss in the game, but in an MMO like this one, there's not only level sync (and item level sync), but also content meant for players at max level. The final bosses of the other Final Fantasy games aren't meant to face maxed leveled players, but rather the average leveled player for that point in the game.
However, this game provides content like Eden raids and the Yorha raids (and the current MSQ) that can ONLY be accessed at level 80, meaning you need to be at max level to experience the end game content. So if you're the type of person who doesn't want to be at max level (not saying YOU are, but for the people that are), why would you be playing an MMO that requires you to have jobs at maximum level for certain content?

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The idea is that you unlock content as you progress. You get new stuff to do at both low levels and high levels.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If that's what you like, then do that. I admit that making alts and speeding through the first 15-20 levels with the Helm of Light is pretty fun, but you should at least have some higher goals for your main account, do you agree with at least that? (Your account has a lv 80 samurai in Shirogane btw so you clearly do)

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I am leveling my other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Edax

By that logic, progression ends after you've killed your first mob at level 1 and every mob kill after that is somehow invalid. That's not how that works, you don't need to have to do something completely new every time to progress in an RPG.

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Grinding POTD/HoH and killing one single mob at level 1 are not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it correctly using mobs, it's like killing the same set of mobs over and over to level all the way up until 60, where you switch to a second group of mobs until 70. Of course, there's not a single legitimate leveling guide out there that tells you to farm level 1 mobs outside of your first class when at a very low level. You're not going to be grinding the level 1 mobs with alt classes the same way you do POTD or HoH.

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Originally Posted by Edax

The idea is that you unlock content as you progress. You get new stuff to do at both low levels and high levels.

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The VAST majority of content you will unlock throughout the game is reachable on your first class/job. The only things an alt class unlocks is a different experience in content you already have unlocked (after a certain level when the class/job becomes interesting and only until it becomes a grind which leveling is) and class/job quests that not everyone finds enjoyable. When I did the Machinist quests up until 45, I found myself uninterested in the story of the Machinist job quests. Normally I find the story in this game enjoyable but not enough to grind out the quests for an okay story. (with some exceptions that don't include Machinist) Other than that, skipping to 70 doesn't skip any new content, just grinding on stuff you've already played.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I am leveling my other jobs.

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My point still stands. You're eventually going to run out of classes to level in the lower areas of the game and will be eventually be at maximum level, or start a lower level alt character. And if there really was some other bit of content that you should to grind each class/job slowly to unlock slowly, you'll need to progress (actual progression) further in the game to get there. If being at a lower level gives you a dopamine rush, you're eventually going to need to be at max level to continue getting new content or get an alt to get that rush. And in the case where you do get an alt, my previous point applies.

Personally, no. I see no point in playing a game like this and skip the levelling process. Also, levelling yourself helps with learning how your skills/actions work

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Most jobs it’s a insufferably adjustment as you get traits and skills you have to read carefully then piece out your rotations accordingly

Having said that MCH has the least amount of skills in the game, the easiest job in the game and the one with the least amount of confusing or punishing mechs within its kit. It also miraculously doesn’t evolve much past 50 besides 1-2 skills so if you got it’s 50 rotation down you essentially got its 80 rotation down as it gets nothing but Aoe Fodder or “upgrades” ie like Broil or Aero.

If Que times are a issue I suggest call your FC for help, or do fates while you wait as fates are swarmed nowadays thanks to events. But honestly if you could Care less about the Job quests MCH is the least harmful to Level skip. Any other job would be a nightmare to relearn with 18+ skills everywhere but thankfully MCH is a subpar job

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War says hi

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Please take the time to read everything before blindly replying with 'It's not good for bad players, most players are bad, you're likely to be a bad player, its not worth it'. I see people do this a lot in other threads I've looked at, and its not helpful if you don't provide relevant reasoning to support your answer.

I've been wanting to play Machinist as it looks like a really fun job to play, and I've been trying to level it up. I've grinded dungeons to get it up to level 51, but the constant 20 min+ DPS queue times have been pretty discouraging, so I've been considering buying a level skip for Machinist, especially considering that its currently on a discounted price.

While I haven't played high level Machinist before, I have a good enough grasp on the game's core mechanics that I've done fine on lv 70 dungeons like Ala Mhigo, and have RDM, AST, and GNB all higher than lv 70. (My account here shows an alt character for some reason, so don't look there for proof XD)

I've seen a lot of people say that getting the skills one at a time makes a big difference in a player's ability to play a job, is that true? I'm not the type of person who would blindly run into multiplayer content with the boosted job before practicing on dummies and watching a guide of two, but is the experience of leveling manually worth the terribly long grind? Should I suck it up and level it up myself or is the potion a viable option?

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Don't listen to anyone that tells you leveling is good practice. Almost every job in this game plays differently at level 80 then when you are leveling. You can practice once you hit 80 and that would be far more productive than trying to learn the class as you level. That being said, whether it's worth it to buy a level jump is up to you. If you feel like you are wasting time in low levels and want to skip to higher level, then do it. If you enjoy the grind then keep leveling.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Maybe you have a differing view on what the word 'progression' means to you, but grinding a class/job by doing the same thing over and over is not the only part of an RPG, especially not an MMO RPG.
While in single player games, its more about the journey, in MMOs, leveling is about the end goal, not how or what you do to get there. Regardless of whether or not I choose to buy the skip potion (still deciding), if there wasn't enjoyable end-game content waiting for me at the end of the grind, then why waste time/money leveling to get to that point?

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Grinding POTD/HoH and killing one single mob at level 1 are not the same thing at all. If you want to compare it correctly using mobs, it's like killing the same set of mobs over and over to level all the way up until 60, where you switch to a second group of mobs until 70. Of course, there's not a single legitimate leveling guide out there that tells you to farm level 1 mobs outside of your first class when at a very low level. You're not going to be grinding the level 1 mobs with alt classes the same way you do POTD or HoH.

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Why level 60? What is it specially about grinding mobs over and over again to level 60 equates to repeating a dungeon? When killing mobs, does killing a different one make all the difference to you? Repetitive action is in nearly every RPG ever made. Having to repeat an action for EXP to progress should not be a new concept to you it's been done as since RPGs were invented.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

My point still stands. You're eventually going to run out of classes to level in the lower areas of the game and will be eventually be at maximum level, or start a lower level alt character. And if there really was some other bit of content that you should to grind each class/job slowly to unlock slowly, you'll need to progress (actual progression) further in the game to get there. If being at a lower level gives you a dopamine rush, you're eventually going to need to be at max level to continue getting new content or get an alt to get that rush. And in the case where you do get an alt, my previous point applies.

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Yes, I get bored when progression ends. That is why I don't stick to a single game and would instead begin progression on a new RPG. I do not desire to be max level in all my jobs but I may eventually get there as a byproduct of working on all my jobs one by one.

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

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Is a level skip worth it?

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It is to me. Otherwise I wouldn't be playing that class at all. I'd rather grind 10 levels than 80, especially when I know where the class guides & training dummies are. It's also one of the biggest reasons I quit playing Path of Exile and Diablo 2, no level skip with these. I don't like starting over.

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Originally Posted by Edax

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

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Yeah but for some of us it is not a waste of money to skip the leveling. For some of us the game doesn't become fun/really start till endgame. For me Ex trials, relic grind, Savage raids is 10x more fun than leveling up and going through dungeons. That is what great about MMOs, you have plenty of options of things to do if you don't like one thing, there is plenty of other things to do.

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Originally Posted by Delis

Yeah but for some of us it is not a waste of money to skip the leveling. For some of us the game doesn't become fun/really start till endgame. For me Ex trials, relic grind, Savage raids is 10x more fun than leveling up and going through dungeons. That is what great about MMOs, you have plenty of options of things to do if you don't like one thing, there is plenty of other things to do.

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So you pay extra money because of the flaws in the video game.

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Originally Posted by Edax

So you pay extra money because of the flaws in the video game.

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I would not say it is a flaw though. It is working as it should and plenty of people that enjoy that part of the game and they have every right too. Just like me and others have every right to not enjoy it but enjoy other things about the game. The devs know this so they have given us an option to skip that part. Every game has flaws and has things that are enjoyable. Not everyone is going to enjoy 100% of an mmo. There is always going to be something some people like but others dislike, and there is nothing wrong with that. You can not satisfy everyone with every aspect of a game.

Couldn't the OP level skip and then run deep dungeon to get the "add a skill one at a time" experience?

My thing is, is it really a waste if they already leveled to max but don't really want to level again? This isn't the most fun experience starting over in XIV if I'm honest. The lower dungeons are a drag, all of my fav dungeons are after the 60 range. Most of the jobs feel better from that point on too. On your first character/job I'd agree in not buying a skip but anything after that? Why not? Here's the rub to that though. As long as you're willing to PRACTICE and PRACTICE and ... PRACTICE that job so you don't look like a moto bug then what's the harm?

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Originally Posted by Edax

Why level 60?

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Because when you hit level 60, you swap over to HoH if you're using POTD to level. That should have been fairly obvious considering the context.

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Originally Posted by Edax

What is it specially about grinding mobs over and over again to level 60 equates to repeating a dungeon?

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The act of doing something over and over without anything new to experience, and you're the one who brought up killing level 1 mobs.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Repetitive action is in nearly every RPG ever made. Having to repeat an action for EXP to progress should not be a new concept to you it's been done as since RPGs were invented.

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RPG =/= MMO RPG, which I've provided enough examples of the differences to prove that point already. I'll also remind you of the point I made about needing to grind to max level in an MMO rather than average level in a normal RPG, which means the grinding is much worse in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Yes, I get bored when progression ends.

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There's no problem with this, but progression doesn't end at level 20 either. The same applies to every level in the game INCLUDING level 80.

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Originally Posted by Edax

That is why I don't stick to a single game and would instead begin progression on a new RPG. I do not desire to be max level in all my jobs but I may eventually get there as a byproduct of working on all my jobs one by one.

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This is your decision and if you don't want to stick with FFXIV long-term, that's up to you. However, that isn't typical of the majority of MMO players outside of the most absolute casual of players. MMOs are meant to be played over a long period of time with leveling only being a portion of that. Don't treat your mentality as the norm because it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Edax

If a game is flawed and you don't like playing it, throwing even more money at it over any other game you'd like to play is perhaps a waste of money.

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The process of leveling isn't flawed, just unenjoyable. It's supposed to be a grind so SE can get you to play longer. And more hours means more money from subscriptions. There's nothing wrong with this system, but that doesn't mean its fun for everyone who plays the game. Your argument that not liking the leveling grind means you don't like the entire game is pretty flawed though. Leveling 'progression' is only one of many aspects of the game and even if that's all YOU enjoy, that doesn't mean the rest of the game doesn't exist, nor does it render it invalid for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Couldn't the OP level skip and then run deep dungeon to get the "add a skill one at a time" experience?

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Eh, PotD doesn't give you enough time to like toy with the mechanics you're getting. Things just die way too quickly. I prefer doing the leveling trials in order.



To the OP, I personally don't think level skipping is worth it. Leveling classes in this game is plenty fast, especially with the new MSQ exp boosts, and SOME of the class/job quests that you skip can give some decent tutorial practice on new skills as you get them. (plus I enjoy most of the stories) The only job I would even consider going "yeah no that's fair" is SMN, 'cause leveling as an arcanist with the carbuncle changes is awful, the game teaches you bad form by not giving you enough tools to figure out how to weave ogcds, the acn story is alright but not great but the SMN story is just a string of justifications for making it a pet class (no problems there), excuses why they can't give us more pets, excuses why we can't summon bahamut, and then backtracking so we can now summon bahamut, and of course you get SCH out of it too. Any other ARR class and I'd say it's easy enough to level it up the normal way, and anything later and you're absolutely wasting your money since they're almost mostly leveled already. And honestly, if I'm considering paying a videogame to not play it, I just quit that videogame.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

RPG =/= MMO RPG, which I've provided enough examples of the differences to prove that point already. I'll also remind you of the point I made about needing to grind to max level in an MMO rather than average level in a normal RPG, which means the grinding is much worse in an MMO.

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You don't experience endgame content in an normal MMO at average level. Investing more money to the game to not play it can be considered a waste because it's based upon the idea that the game was unenjoyable and thus of poor quality.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

There's no problem with this, but progression doesn't end at level 20 either. The same applies to every level in the game INCLUDING level 80.

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I didn't imply otherwise about level 20...?

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

This is your decision and if you don't want to stick with FFXIV long-term, that's up to you.

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I do wish to stick to FFXIV long-term. With expansions, there will be more content for me to consume for years ahead. I'm in no rush nor am I monogamous to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

However, that isn't typical of the majority of MMO players outside of the most absolute casual of players. MMOs are meant to be played over a long period of time with leveling only being a portion of that. Don't treat your mentality as the norm because it isn't.

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Leveling is an important part of an MMO.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

The process of leveling isn't flawed, just unenjoyable. It's supposed to be a grind so SE can get you to play longer. And more hours means more money from subscriptions. There's nothing wrong with this system, but that doesn't mean its fun for everyone who plays the game. Your argument that not liking the leveling grind means you don't like the entire game is pretty flawed though. Leveling 'progression' is only one of many aspects of the game and even if that's all YOU enjoy, that doesn't mean the rest of the game doesn't exist, nor does it render it invalid for everyone else.

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You reward the game for being unenjoyable which means you aren't getting value for your money.

no it bloody isn't, you can level up easily enough in this game, paying £13 for something that can be done in a few days is just ridiculous, maybe if it was £5 i might understand but that price tag is way too high.

Honestly, the only reason not to do it are the Class Quests for the Job. If those don't matter to you, I see no issues.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Depends on how quick you are to adapt.

I jumped BLM just to be able to do the caster DPS story and regretted it. Even with PotD practice I couldn't grasp the job. But hey, apparently it's the easiest job to learn.

So it varies per person I'd say.

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BLM, is nowhere near the easiest Job to learn, I would say Dancer is. BLM is a set procedural job, where you have very little reliance on procs, BLM is about mana control vs biggest hitters, the only proc is an Instant cast DOT. Also learning how to not move or minimal moving on a duty is key to BLM DPS. However, watching the videos and using a Target dummy to get the rotation even for a long term BLM player is helpful.

I would say DPS Casters, in General, are all higher difficulty classes to learn. Ranged DPS are the way easier Jobs to learn, Tanking and Healing are the Easiest except Astra. BTW Ninja and Samurai are also technically hard to master but are easy to learn. I'm not up on Dragoon, so I can't comment on how easy or hard it is.

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

(I still don't know what OGCD means, I know something global cool down) .

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Off Global Cooldown, these are abilities you can weave into your rotation without changing the cast speed of your abilities. ie Sidewinder and Shadowbite which share a cooldown are not on the OGCD which means you can do your single target DPS rotation uninterrupted and still toss in AOE.