Skill level necessary to clear HW MSQ content

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Originally Posted by Townowi

Right now I am contemplating halting the MSQ altogether and just focus on getting EX primals done synced as well as the Coil (especially savage, from which I will get the greatest skill gains, especially if done synced). Only once I can get that stuff done with any consistency may I resume the MSQ.

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Under no circumstances does HW MSQ require ARR EX or Coil-level expertise. Most players progress through HW (and this entire game) without ever touching the old EX primals synced, much less Coil—which is a very old raid that you will have a very hard time finding a group for that will want to do the raid properly (it’s standard now to just unsync it with Echo so that players can experience the story, as it was a very story-heavy raid that tied into the final events of 1.0). That said, Coil itself has undergone several nerfs, and is nothing like what it used to be. It would still be challenging, but not as challenging as it was back in the day. But again—you don’t need to clear Ifrit EX or Final Coil synced to do any of the MSQ in this game.

I would think that your struggles lie in your gear being inadequate for the content you are tackling coupled with still learning your job. Though MSQ content is easy, gear is still important. Assuming that previous posters were correct in you wearing i90 on your left side, you are 25 item levels below the minimum item level that HW started out with. I see on your Lodestone that you now how some i115 pieces, so that should hopefully alleviate some of your issues with taking too much damage.

If you’re that concerned with gaining more skill, just practice your job in any setting. It doesn’t have to be EX or Savage. Look at your tooltips, maybe look around for some advice/tips/guides on how to play SCH better, and go from there. Throwing yourself into old high-end content isn’t necessary to get better at the game.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

That said, which ARR extreme(s) is most representative of HW readiness? If applicable, answer healing first and DPS second: pick only extremes of primals that were previously fought in the MSQ.

And I would also like to know which HW and SB extremes are most representative of SB MSQ and ShB MSQ respectively.

Maybe I am wrong but using EX primals as gauges of xpac readiness also imply dungeon readiness for the same xpac that EX is a gauge for. That's why I kept quiet about dungeon readiness.

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If you are talking about synched... then like has been said before, literally none of the EX trials, across all the expansions, are representative of the difficulty encountered in dungeons and normal trials within the next expansion along. The ARR extreme trials are harder than anything the normal HW story throws at you, the HW extremes are harder than anything the SB story throws at you, and the same holds true for SB Extremes and and the ShB story.

If youre determined to go through with this in the face of everyone telling you it isnt necessary, then shoot for Ultima then Ifrit. Ultima is arguably the easiest, it doesnt have a ton of tricky mechanics, and it isnt super uncommon for a PUG to clear it if you get a DF que to pop. Ifrit is a good medium difficulty. It takes the new mechanics from hard mode(along with the original story mode ones), adds one or two twists, and hits a little harder. Avoid titan(frustrating), leviathan(frustrating), and ramuh(probly the hardest one).

With that said, you might be operating under a false assumption. You seem to think that this game has a "standard" difficulty curve for its story missions. It does not. The difficulty "curve" is more like a flat line with an odd instance here and there that suddenly spike upward, then settle back near the original level. True the level 75 story dungeon might have more complex AoEs to dodge then the level 20 dungeon does, and classes get more complex as they level up, but the general gameplay isnt significantly harder. Dodge telegraphs, heal through roomwide attacks, and attack the enemies down. If anything, the added class complexity makes many of the fights easier(shifting the difficulty from what the dungeon does to doing your own thing properly). Tanks have more defensive moves, healers have more "emergency" buttons, and DPS have more and better attacks to hit with.

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Originally Posted by Eclipse12187

I realize now that you say this, but ifrit HM and Titan HM (as well as Garuda hm) are optional

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Was this changed at some point? Or was it just a thing of "required to unlock them, not to clear them"? Cuz they're definitely some degree of required by 2.5.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There is no "normal Coil". It has one unlabelled difficulty, which equates to Savage.

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In fairness, second coil does have a savage mode.

OP, at this point, I'd just as soon advise stop fretting over skill or difficulty or anything and just roll. If you find HW dungeons/trials too difficult when you get to them, you can either keep practicing on them when you get there, to learn the mechanics of the fight you're struggling with, or you can roll back to earlier fights to see if you've improved at all.

I kinda get it. If you feel you're struggling in HM fights, you at least want to feel like it's not going to be a struggle the whole way through. Gear ought to help with that. Maybe you'll improve some while practicing. But it can also be said that just progressing and leveling will also provide more skills you may need to practice with to learn where they fit in rotation, or just skills that improve your survivability outright.

Synced EX/Coils is content designed for players trying to approach optimized. Which isn't to say it's a bad goal. Just, walk before you run. And recognize that it's bonus difficulty, beyond comparable story content.

If you're looking for a gauge of next expansion difficulty, you truly need look no further than the required quests and trials leading up to it. As EX/Coils are not required, they're not a good gauge. The HM fights, maybe. You've got a few more trials and a couple dungeons before you even make it to expansion (and the first 3.0 dungeon is optional besides). That's plenty of time to get a feel for where your skill level is at before you hit the next milestone. Trying to tune yourself to EX difficulty is just above and beyond.

Still, if you can get a group together for it, could at least be some fun. Quick way to discover if there's anywhere you can improve your healing/rotation.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

That said, which ARR extreme(s) is most representative of HW readiness?

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None of them. Or all of them. The ARR EX-trials are harder than any of the non-EX, non-Savage content in HW.

If you want more practice before starting HW content, then forget all about EX trials.

Instead run, for example, the following standard dungeons and trials from ARR:
Aurum Vale
Keeper of the Lake
The Navel (Hard)
Thornmarch (Hard)

Most of those are required to finish the ARR MSQ anyway, and if you can handle all the mechanics in those - then you have the skills needed for HW.

You should also do the Crystal Tower alliance raids, if you haven't already. A bunch of the mechanics learned there show up again later in MSQ, and in the upcoming patch they'll be required for the MSQ anyway so you may as well do them now.

As far as MSQ goes only Titan hard mode was required as it became a part of the SB MSQ patches. The rest were entirely optional until that point.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

Just how hard is HW MSQ content compared to ARR MSQ content anyway?

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It's true that the enemies hit harder in HW than we were used to back in ARR. If you've been in i90 gear (the SCH gear) for most of ARR, you will find that increasing your gear to i115 or higher will greatly increase your ability to survive and move through the story line.

Assuming you have enough Poetics tomes from instances that give them, you can purchase i120 gear ... in particular an i115-i120 weapon and chest piece would help immensely.

It's easier for a DPS than it is for a Healer, because DPS has more in their kit to bring down enemies. Then again, if you don't fight more than 2 enemies at once, your self-heals should help. The first 60+ instance is pretty tame for DPS, but the demands on healers increases a lot, especially if the rest of the party is under-geared.

I think it'll be easiest to focus on increasing your gear level to 115+ (you can buy the base gear in Ishgard for that). You can skip the entire range of Extreme and Savage trials and raids and still get through the MSQ fairly easily as long as you stay geared.

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Originally Posted by Eclipse12187

As far as MSQ goes only Titan hard mode was required as it became a part of the SB MSQ patches. The rest were entirely optional until that point.

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Nope. Titan (Hard), Ifrit (hard), and Garuda (hard) were and are required before you can start the quest "Good Intentions" - the first quest of the MSQ in patch 2.5