Blizzard removing fee to change gender in World of Warcraft: Shadowlands

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

You don't really need to understand. All you need to do is respect their gender identity choices (whether in-game or in RL) and accept them for who they are without judging them.

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I'm sure you were triggered by the word 'mutilate' so you just used it as an anchor to say that, and you're totally speaking from an RL perspective. Nobody has to accept anything about anyone which is a fact that took me many years to accept.

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

You don't really need to understand. All you need to do is respect their gender identity choices (whether in-game or in RL) and accept them for who they are without judging them.

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I could be wrong, but I'm assuming this is probably just a weird language translation thing. Phoenix is the EU datacenter, and so there's a chance English may not be their first language. Switch out "mutilate" with "change", and it's perfectly harmless sounding.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I dunno, in the beginning it may have been "similar" to wow, but I don't think it could be called a clone now. It's very different in most aspects.

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It actually didn't feel like a while clone in the very beginning at least to me it didnt. 1.0 was its on beast that was just plain evil due to all the issue. 2.0 had a lot of different aspects that separates it from WoW that didn't make it feel like a clone to either. With all the changes that happened, the game now is starting to feel more and more like a wow clone nowadays.

Just because one game does something doesn't mean another game should. Its comparing apples to oranges. In WoW they let you change everything about your character besides race and gender at the barber but in the new expansion they decided to add gender as well. In that game their customization is very limited being an old game. FFXIV does not let you change many features about your character with the barber there are so many features you can customize when making your character. Not the same thing here.

This sounds like a trap?

Ok, so in WoW teh male/female base models are preset by race. So no matter what you do, you would essentially have the same geometric model to work from, so its easy to change from male to female from a practical stand point. What differentiates your character is Face, skin tones, etc....

So if youre swapping from male to female, how does it determine skin color, face, eye color, etc? Unless theyve decided to pretty much let you re customize youre entire character from the barber shop, it seems like a half measure.

That and lets be frank - Not every name works across genders great.

Mr. Bigglesworth is gonna look a bit wierd of a name on a female model, so its going to promote players to buy name changes.

Edit: Nvm, seems like you can pretty much fantasia at barber shops now. Guess they are trying to promote sub counts at the cost of customization.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

but this isn't WoW

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Doesn't mean you can't find good ideas else where, especially beneficial in that SE can see concepts in an actual live environment vs just imagining an idea and hoping it works. I heavily /encourage/ SE to look at other games that have similar vibes to them and cannibalize the best concepts and experiences of them- of course always trying to add their own flare and style. Purpose isn't to become some weird abomination that cuts and pastes everywhere but just like code, sometimes it's good to see what other people have done rather.

Of course this isn't why, but I think it would be foolish to look only at yourself like nothing else exists. Isolationism has consistently proven through history as a terrible idea that makes you weaker :p.

It's not WoW, nor should it 'be' WoW- but we can learn, and looking at other games as they're live is a great way to learn safely vs just tossing them out and being like 'oh damn, that sucked or that could have been so much better if I had only been aware of this one pitfall another game had experienced and solved already'.

Which is not to say FFXIV has to do whatever WoW does, but if WoW does something that doesn't mean we can't be like 'ey, that was a good idea, how about here?". Personally don't see the need to change my gender, and I've only used one fantasia through the history of this game (to become Hrothgar), but I can see how it might be fun for others. I wonder if changing stuff too easily can make you disconnected from your character, there might be some philosophical / game 'feeling' experience talk inside that (although on the opposite side if you can never change would also probably make for a similar negative experience).

Ultimately wouldn't mind if it was a thing but personally don't really need it. I'll leave the value of that concept to others to argue for or against.

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Originally Posted by linayar

https://www.fanbyte.com/features/ffxiv-naoki-yoshida/

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Thanks for linking a dev context response, upvote :).

Square's "move" will be a sale, which you will all dive head first into and then forget this thread ever existed.

Blizzard: "Free gender changes coming you guys to a barber shop near you!"

SE: "That's cute. We're adding a boss fight where players pilot a Gundam, so..."

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Doesn't mean you can't find good ideas else where, especially beneficial in that SE can see concepts in an actual live environment vs just imagining an idea and hoping it works. I /encourage/ SE to look at other games that have similar vibes to them and canibalize the best of them- of course always trying to add their own flare and style. Purpose isn't to become some weird abomination that cuts and pastes everywhere but just like code, sometimes it's good to see what other people have done rather.

Of course this isn't why, but I think it would be foolish to look only at yourself like nothing else exists. Isolationism has consistently proven through history as a terrible idea that makes you weaker :p.

It's not WoW, nor should it 'be' WoW- but we can learn, and looking at other games as they're live is a great way to learn safely vs just tossing them out and being like 'oh damn, that sucked or that could have been so much better if I had only been aware of this one pitfall another game had experience and solved already'.



Thanks for linking a dev context response, upvote :).

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I would hope for other inspirations instead of world of Warcrap

i know this game is inspired by WoW, but they should look into other games for ideas

"Hey another company is doing a very consumer friendly move, but lets not request (or even want something similar) for it because is coming from WoW. And we are supposed to hate WoW!". :confused:

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

This sounds like a trap?

Ok, so in WoW teh male/female base models are preset by race. So no matter what you do, you would essentially have the same geometric model to work from, so its easy to change from male to female from a practical stand point. What differentiates your character is Face, skin tones, etc....

So if youre swapping from male to female, how does it determine skin color, face, eye color, etc? Unless theyve decided to pretty much let you re customize youre entire character from the barber shop, it seems like a half measure.

That and lets be frank - Not every name works across genders great.

Mr. Bigglesworth is gonna look a bit wierd of a name on a female model, so its going to promote players to buy name changes.

Edit: Nvm, seems like you can pretty much fantasia at barber shops now. Guess they are trying to promote sub counts at the cost of customization.

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I no longer play WoW and have zero interesting in doing it, I'm happy with FFXIV. However, I like to keep tabs on MMO's in general and, no matter how much more charismatic FFXIV character are to me, next expansion WoW is going to have a very similar amount of customization compared to FFXIV alongside a more diverse race selection.

The only reason they are doing it is because of this: after all the addition to the barber shop their character customization service was pointless.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I would hope for other inspirations instead of world of War-oof

i know this game is inspired by WoW, but they should look into other games for ideas

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Sure, looking at only one source is hardly a mind broadening experience- they should look at many games. New games may be coming up with fancy and risky ideas that SE could learn from without having to risk so much themselves. Indie games, not that there are many mmorpgs of that type lol, tend to be a nice hot bed of out there concepts. Although technically they don't have to look at just MMO-rpgs.

Hopefully they get some time in work hours, occasionally (doesn't have to be that often), just to look at their field, new trailers, new features of other games, etc- I assume many after working long hours on a game are not eager to then spend their off time to then be forced to play specific types of games. Might be helpful like once in a while just to have 'research' day where they look at other stuff rather than their own and then talk about it. With perhaps someone, like Yoshida, ensuring that they don't detour strongly into other game's work- need to be aware but doesn't mean turn into a copy paste machine. They honestly might already do this, I know early on in pre/ARR era that Yoshida said he encouraged the team to look around and noticed that they hadn't seen what others had done when making their own stuff (paraphrasing).

Fantasia should be a regular reward, for example 1 at each seasonal event or something, allowing everyone to change their character sometime.
Then, those who want more, can still buy more.

(to me it should simply be free, or that most progress/collection be shared between characters, but whatever)

Different games. Appearance has never mattered that much in WoW because the character creator was always (and remains) incredibly limited. WoW character individuality was derived through gear. This is in pretty direct contrast to FFXIV, where it is rare to see an exact clone of yourself, but practically everyone at the level cap (glamour not withstanding) is wearing identical stuff.

Also, WoW sucks.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Different games. Appearance has never mattered that much in WoW because the character creator was always (and remains) incredibly limited. WoW character individuality was derived through gear. This is in pretty direct contrast to FFXIV, where it is rare to see an exact clone of yourself, but practically everyone at the level cap (glamour not withstanding) is wearing identical stuff.

Also, WoW sucks.

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They literally have an event where you compete with other people in a subjective fashion show contest that ranks people on their transmog based on the themes presented.
You get rewards for it.
There's a race with a racial that discounts the cost to transmogrify their gear.
They're updating their character creator in the expansion the OP mentioned to greatly increase the amount of options (and combining that increase of things to change to while removing the cost to change is not something to ignore.)

Appearance matters in WoW.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

"Hey another company is doing a very consumer friendly move, but lets not request (or even want something similar) for it because is coming from WoW. And we are supposed to hate WoW!". :confused:



I no longer play WoW and have zero interesting in doing it, I'm happy with FFXIV. However, I like to keep tabs on MMO's in general and, no matter how much more charismatic FFXIV character are to me, next expansion WoW is going to have a very similar amount of customization compared to FFXIV alongside a more diverse race selection.

The only reason they are doing it is because of this: after all the addition to the barber shop their character customization service was pointless.

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Well last time I checked into wow, you could only do very basic cosmetic changes, so if theyre adding in gender swapping now and complete customization outside of race, yeah it is a nice feature.

However, all this being said, I would much rather spend money on Fantasia if it meant a far more indepth character customization engine be used. I know there are Fantasia junkies who swap character races like they swap shirts, but a vast majority of players probably dont fantasia that often. And I think people would be more interested in more customization options rather than the removal of fantasia and broaden existing customization availability at the aesthetician.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Well last time I checked into wow, you could only do very basic cosmetic changes, so if theyre adding in gender swapping now and complete customization outside of race, yeah it is a nice feature.

However, all this being said, I would much rather spend money on Fantasia if it meant a far more indepth character customization engine be used. I know there are Fantasia junkies who swap character races like they swap shirts, but a vast majority of players probably dont fantasia that often. And I think people would be more interested in more customization options rather than the removal of fantasia and broaden existing customization availability at the aesthetician.

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Yet WoW is getting both. More options and everyone will be free to customize their character using said new options.

I know I'm repeating myself but just happen I really don't get it, how anyone could be against something like this. Also, why fantasia has to disappear? SE could keep it to change your race/gender.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Why anyone will be against a better in-game esthetician is eluding me.

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I'm not against adding more options to the Aesthetician. I think that would be good. There have been a few times I've gone to the Aesthetician and wished some of the other options were there.

I'm against people using dumb arguments based on what other games do. Talk about this game and how the proposed change would improve it instead of saying "this game did it so you should, too".

I respect that the original idea is that players shouldn't be able to change their character's appearance too greatly on a whim but we're practically at that point in real life. Plastic surgery exists. So does gender reassignment surgery. So do skin dyeing and bleaching methods. The game would lack the recovery time that real life has but then the game skips over a lot of real life time inconveniences already.

I think the key would be scaling the cost based on what's being customized. Two thousand gil sounds fine for a haircut and slight makeup adjustment, which would probably run someone $100 at a modest salon. Costs related to gender reassignment surgery (just the surgery, not all the costs related to transitioning) vary a lot but seem to average around $25,000. If the game cost were to scale at the same rate, that would make it 500,000 gil.

Considering how often some players Fantasia, sounds like it would make a good gil sink for the game. Those who don't want to (or can't) pay the gil fee could still use Fantasias.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

I under the impression that fantasias are mostly used to change race or clan. Anyway, with WoW this change made sense, after all was the only missing option from the barber.

SE should consider giving us almost all the same options with had during character creation, with the exception of race/clan/gender.

I can assure you that goblin technology is totally safe. Now, if you excuse me, I need to recalibrate all my prosthetics limbs.

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I'd say this should eventually be the case - everything but race, gender, clan would be incorporated into a re-customization option. I do think it's interesting that they keep the glamour closet separate from the barber shop, when the magical concept behind a glamour could easily apply to facial cosmetics as well - eye color, hair color changes etc. Personally I'd like to see them integrate the two in one interface where you could customize your appearance and armor at the same time.

In the end I do agree that fantasias are no doubt a nice money maker for them, and I don't foresee them getting rid of them.

Do I want free fantasia? Of course I do.


Do I think it will happen anytime soon? Nah. If it took over a decade to get WoW to finally offer free customization, why would we expect SE to do this any faster? Especially with fantasias being highly profitable.

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Originally Posted by Jimmymagic

Delete this thread plz....FFXIV Forum not WoW

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it was a suggestion for ffxiv, your post should be deleted instead

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

I'm sure you were triggered by the word 'mutilate' so you just used it as an anchor to say that, and you're totally speaking from an RL perspective. Nobody has to accept anything about anyone which is a fact that took me many years to accept.

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Take it easy, lol.

Fantasia sales are consistently listed as the top purchase over on the Mog Station. I hold the firm belief that if people want to change major features in regards to their character then they should have to purchase a fantasia in order to do so. Getting one for 'free' with each new expansion would be nice, though it isn't essential.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

I'm sure you were triggered by the word 'mutilate' so you just used it as an anchor to say that, and you're totally speaking from an RL perspective. Nobody has to accept anything about anyone which is a fact that took me many years to accept.

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Just turn off your thinking functions, accept and "respect". The more you disable your cerebral capabilities, the better. That's the message I got from that post.

But that said, yes, I agree with you.

The fact that parallels are being drawn from certain movements IRL for a function to change your character's attributes in a game - often with zero canonical basis, since it is seen as a purely "out of character" thing - is intriguing, to say the least. As for Blizzard, I don't think that company can really sink much lower at this point, but I'm sure they'll have a "hold my beer" moment for that in competition with themselves.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

In the Sims 4 my character can go to the toilets and whoohoo.
Your turn Square Enix.

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This comment made my day

I think this is being taken way out of context.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

Personally I don't understand why people have the need to mutilate their characters which they have used for years, just make a new character instead.

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

You don't really need to understand. All you need to do is respect their gender identity choices (whether in-game or in RL) and accept them for who they are without judging them.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

I'm sure you were triggered by the word 'mutilate' so you just used it as an anchor to say that, and you're totally speaking from an RL perspective. Nobody has to accept anything about anyone which is a fact that took me many years to accept.

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Ryu's original comment is (at least as I read it) about the general weirdness of transforming your character into a different character. It's not about changing the gender of an otherwise-consistent character with an RP-esque integration of the event into the character's story.

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

"Players can change their character’s gender at any time for free, thanks to in-game barber shops"

meanwhile here we have to pay 10 dollars to change the color of our eyes

square enix should take note

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If you buy a Fantasia just to change the color of your eyes, that's YOUR problem. Also, does that free gender swap comes with the posibility to change the race of your character? Because if not, it's far from being the same as a Fantasia

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

If you buy a Fantasia just to change the color of your eyes, that's YOUR problem. Also, does that free gender swap comes with the posibility to change the race of your character? Because if not, it's far from being the same as a Fantasia

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One of the best things about Au Ra is you can have a free eye color change whenever you like with the limbal rings. Works best if your base iris is black in color or just really dark.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

One of the best things about Au Ra is you can have a free eye color change whenever you like with the limbal rings. Works best if your base iris is black in color or just really dark.

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It depends on the look you're going for, though - the limbal rings glow so it has a different effect even if they're the same colour.

I think it could have been interesting if they made the rings just a Xaela trait and added something different for Raen. More ornate horn decorations, perhaps?

Comparing the free gender change that has been added to WoW (in order to try and appease the players over the delay to the expansion release and trying to avoid a deluge of refund requests) to a Fantasia is like comparing chalk to cheese.

In WoW the paid for gender change was $15 whereas a Fantasia is $6 which allows gender AND race change. If you want to change races in WoW that will be $25 (you can change gender also). However if the race is of another faction that will cost you $30.

So take a step back, a deep breath and see the facts.

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

"Players can change their character’s gender at any time for free, thanks to in-game barber shops"

meanwhile here we have to pay 10 dollars to change the color of our eyes

square enix should take note

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You are definitely missing the point of this change. They can easily afford to make this an option free to players. They have made billions over the years and since BFA they have been bleeding subscribers. This is an easy QOL change for a company with such a big coffer of cash and many many other sources of income from their subscribers. Buying in game gold or mounts via blizzard store is a fine example


I bet SE would if they thought the free gender/race swap option was more rewarding to them than charging for it would do the same. If they made way more money from higher subs and other cash shop goodies adding something like free gender changes to entice ex subs to come back they would in a heart beat. Its a numbers game.



edit: god damn it, i joined a titanmen necro thread.

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Originally Posted by MagicAura

You don't really need to understand. All you need to do is respect their gender identity choices (whether in-game or in RL) and accept them for who they are without judging them.

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Don't bring RL crap into this, it literally has nothing to do with it..and I'll go as far to say you're getting close to an agenda as it is. WE don't have to understand, that is correct. But SE doesn't have to give it to you for free anyways. It's called Character Creation for a reason

Yeah, dont mind the fantasia for gender/race change but definitely would like to see all the other options become available in the aesthetician, eyes, skin color, face, body, ears, tail. If not that then maybe having a fantasia last like 24hours, cause sometimes dont quite get it right the 1st time.

It's definitely not the same thing.

Fantasia's also allow you to change your entire race. In fact, a fantasia + name change service is still cheaper than it is in WoW. Not to mention you can be every class on one character and you get a free fantasia with a new character from leveling up through teh base story.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

Don't bring RL crap into this

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Judging by the choice of words here, I don't even think I have to go through the full context of this conversation to see where this comes from. -_-