Please Remove Housing Timers During the Covid-19 Epidemic

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Originally Posted by Bravely_Default

Basic rule of thumb if it causes a massive loss of internet infrastructure to an area or displaces people due to other structure damage, they MIGHT postpone it depending on severity. a virus with an estimated 1 week-2 week recovery time does not fit under this. you can also plan for and prevent catching it entirely unlike a hurricane or massive earthquake...

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This sums it up best.

Even as someone who has a house myself, I don't want to see the housing timer stopped each and every time there's some sort of disaster going on.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

We all make mistakes. I didn't want to put in numbers on my post because they're quickly changing, and actually my numbers weren't even correct. Of the confirmed cases, 3.6% of people have died. And this is assuming the numbers are correct.

For all the people who keep saying that the flu is worse: if as many people get COVID-19 as people get the flu each flu season, with the current mortality rate, we would have about 1,000,000 dead people in the US alone. There is no need to panic, but please take it seriously. Take precautions and try to avoid unnecessary social contact if you're in an affected area.

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Exactly. People need to take this seriously. Don't panic, but be smart, be hygienic (like you should be always anyway), but understand even if nothing has been reported in your area - assume it's in the community. Because they are NOT testing people like they should, at least in the US. For example my state declared a state of emergency yesterday and also said that my state has 500 tests currently. FIVE HUNDRED. I have friends in the medical field and they have said stay away from crowds and wash your hands because it's out there and the testing criteria is so tight right now because of lack of tests that almost no one is being tested even if they think someone has it. This is coming from nurses and docs I know who work in the ER.

In the UK folks have been panic buying loo rolls and flour XD

One thing. Just No lol If you survive it and have it you can still log on for a moment to get into it... and two if you don't it won't even matter so No

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

In the UK folks have been panic buying loo rolls and flour XD

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Here it's toilet paper, disinfectant and water. The toilet paper makes me smh. Like how much do you think you are going to need if you have to self-quarantine for two weeks??

Curious though... why flour?

So as someone in the Bay Area, I have to say I don't think this is needed.

The difference here and other major issues is that this one is best avoided by staying home, where your internet and gaming machine are. More often they stop demolitions when infrastructure is impacted to the point where people actually can not log on. If you're avoiding the illness, or you are ill, worst case you can pop on for the two minutes it takes to keep your house, and even if you become infected, it's most likely you'll recover before your house would be taken away. The only case I can see where people would lose their house is if they're already near the end of their timer, become infected, get hospitalized, and lose the house during that time. But in that case, there's a good chance you would have lost the house anyway.... and you're not using it enough to justify having it.

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Originally Posted by Enla

They also did it for Hurricane Michael a year and a half ago, as well as a few other times over the course of the game's tenure.

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Yea for natural disasters that knock out power and destroy property. This isn't that. You still have access to the internet and can log in.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

This info is all wrong.

Based on the WHO's numbers, the mortality rate on COVID-19 is currently around 3.2%. The seasonal flu is typically less than 1%.

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While I'm not wanting to downplay the severity much. People should still take common precautions and take care of themselves. The WHO statistic your posting is the crude mortality rate which is only based on reported COVID-19 cases and confirmed deaths from it. This doesnt account for the mass of people who are infected and never knew it and other such unreported cases. Many experts have come out and said the true mortality rate is likely much closer to 1% or below. Higher than the seasonal flu but not nearly as frightening as 3.2%. Its mostly because testing for the disease has been so lackluster poor, especially here in the US where so few have bothered to be tested for it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Best information is directly from the source: in this case, the World Health Organization.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-de...-coronaviruses

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This isn't just about fatality. Just because this is a recent outbreak it doesn't make it less worse than the flu. In Itally for example the outbreak caused a fatality rate from COVID 19 that is higher than China's. Italy is known for a much better health care than China.

The point is that this pandemic is NEW, there's no known cure. This makes it even more dangerous due to the fact you can be a carrier of the disease and show no known symptoms. Testing has been SLOW.

"Okay but many of us still don't die"
Which is fantastic, but there's other lingering health concerns that don't involve death. Scar tissue is another problem. So it's a valid concern to not want other lingering health effects even if they aren't particularly fatal.

It's worse for the US because the US was slow on the uptake on even testing for it to begin with. This is why the cases rose so quickly, because it was just outright dismissed.

Influenza has different strains - https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm so it's not just one type.

Yes people shouldn't panic, but there's a reason for Cancel Everything. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ything/607675/

That being said - about the housing situation - This is a tough call. I don't think at this time it should suspend housing but who knows what will happen in the next week. Isolation means being at home where you may be playing FFXIV, but it depends on the economic situation panning out as well.

The fact it's causing other issues economically and why historians may be amusingly referring to it as "Disaster Voltron" https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/stat...03944151007232

I'm a pretty laid back person, but when I see someone just only talking about "Well it's less fatal than the flu" kind of completely miss the point why this is an important issue. It isn't JUST about death.

i agree in cases of natural disasters or crisis,pandemic ffxiv needs to suspend demolition in the infected areas indefinitely until situation has past.before you disagree with postee imagine your going through a horrible event cant get on anytime soon and its regardless of the fact of the situation you would want ffxiv to do the right thing if you disagree your either someone who has deep issues to be that cold hearted or hateful or your point blank lying.unless abnormal you would not aprreaciate knowing how many unsympathetic people are on earth which reveal themselves in times like these in different ways like this.sad people sad world.

Mortality rate shouldn't be the only factor people are thinking of. Whether you think the virus is dangerous or not doesn't really matter because your opinion on this does not change the fact that many places worldwide have closed schools and other public services where people would earn their money. Some people in my fc have to work from home now. Those who have jobs that cannot be done from home are worried about being told to take time off work.

For a lot of people this means finances are going to be tight and it's not something they can really control because they're not the ones deciding that they cannot go to work and earn money. And we all know you need money to fund your place in the game.

Even if you never get the virus it can still affect you in a real way that negatively impacts life.

This is a worldwide issue. It would be prudent for SE to pause demolition until the situation is under more control. They have done it before for other large scale life impacting events. No reason why they can't or should not do it for this situation too.

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

In the UK folks have been panic buying loo rolls and flour XD

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That's mostly in the bigger cities. I live in a coastal town in Scotland and life is going on as normal here for the time being. Sensible precautions are being taken but there's no panic buying, luckily.

It's entirely possible that the situation will worsen, though there's a lot of different factors to consider. Of those who catch it, most will be self-isolating at home - which suggests to me that they'll likely just be playing FFXIV or some other game to distract themselves whilst they recover.

At the end of the day, though, it's just a video-game. If finances are so tight, even in an emergency, it's probably best not to let FFXIV be a distraction in the first place. I don't say that to be callous, but when there's posts involving certain FFXIV players begging on Twitter for their subscription fee to be paid for due to the pandemic, I'm not entirely convinced that there isn't an opportunistic element to some of the requests here.

I do really hope all of you lose your houses just out of spite. Fight me.

"There's a widespread virus that national governments will put people into home quarantine for 1-2 weeks over, I will have absolutely no way to log onto an online video game because of this event." wojak brain let dot jay peg.

Lol isn't this a bit backwards? You're not being annexed from your fake house by staying indoors and out of crowds.

I'm never opposed to implementing a stop on the timers for any reason. We shouldn't have them to begin with, but we also shouldn't have limited housing to begin with. Man, this is a vicious cycle.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm never opposed to implementing a stop on the timers for any reason. We shouldn't have them to begin with, but we also shouldn't have limited housing to begin with. Man, this is a vicious cycle.

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The fact that SE need to a pause a game mechanic because of real life events just shows how flawed the housing system is.

Also I love all the people being like "bUt If YoU'rE nOt At WoRk YoU hAvE pLeNtY oF tImE tO pLaY" and somehow forget people need to be able to work to earn money in order to be able to even play. Did some of you forget that we pay a subscription fee? We don't know how long this situation will last and it could certainly last long enough to cause financial strain on people who are being told to stay home by their managers.

And before someone says "just find a new job!" that's easier said than done and the job market isn't exactly going to be great with so many things being in lock-down.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I have a dejavu because i have seen this thread before.

What a plot twist, this one is actually serious one.

I see no reason why they shouldnt do it, they did it exclusively for their japan playerbase, are we worse than them for SE? They should take the timer away in case of this pandemic, no excuses unless they dont care for their own company integrity.

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It doesn't matter what it is, there will always be a "remove housing timer" thread for anything and everything.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The fact that SE need to a pause a game mechanic because of real life events just shows how flawed the housing system is.

Also I love all the people being like "bUt If YoU'rE nOt At WoRk YoU hAvE pLeNtY oF tImE tO pLaY" and somehow forget people need to be able to work to earn money in order to be able to even play. Did some of you forget that we pay a subscription fee? We don't know how long this situation will last and it could certainly last long enough to cause financial strain on people who are being told to stay home by their managers.

And before someone says "just find a new job!" that's easier said than done and the job market isn't exactly going to be great with so many things being in lock-down.

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At least for me, I have earned 15 bucks doing surveys on qmee in one week, doing them casually on my phone. I've actually bought a few fantasias that way.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It doesn't matter what it is, there will always be a "remove housing timer" thread for anything and everything.

At least for me, I have earned 15 bucks doing surveys on qmee in one week, doing them casually on my phone. I've actually bought a few fantasias that way.

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15 bucks won't mean much if you end up in the position of struggling to pay rent because you cannot work due to the virus.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

15 bucks won't mean much if you end up in the position of struggling to pay rent because you cannot work due to the virus.

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At that point you earned your subscription, and can save your virtual house! Even if you lose your real one!

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm never opposed to implementing a stop on the timers for any reason. We shouldn't have them to begin with, but we also shouldn't have limited housing to begin with. Man, this is a vicious cycle.

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Yes, and we're talking about the current cycle that sucks but there is no reason for SE to stop the timers.
They literally have it as 45 days so that you will have and active sub for every minor content patch.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

It's worse for the US because the US was slow on the uptake on even testing for it to begin with. This is why the cases rose so quickly, because it was just outright dismissed.

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Doesn't help that our healthcare system is a joke and worker protection is nonexistent. Some people can't afford to get tested, and some can't afford to take the time out of work to recover.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Doesn't help that our healthcare system is a joke and worker protection is nonexistent. Some people can't afford to get tested, and some can't afford to take the time out of work to recover.

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It also doesn't help that the virus has likely been all around us for months before it was even reported. Some have likely gotten sick and recovered (or not in some cases) and no one thought it was anything more than cold and flu things. It is hard to fight something that no one knew was there until it was wayyyy too late in the game (thanks China!). Anything countries/states do now is far too little too late, but I guess something is better than nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Doesn't help that our healthcare system is a joke and worker protection is nonexistent. Some people can't afford to get tested, and some can't afford to take the time out of work to recover.

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Along with what someone said about not knowing about the virus until it was too late.

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Because the United States has been extremely sluggish in testing patients for the coronavirus, the official tally of 604 likely represents a fraction of the real caseload. But even if we take this number at face value, it suggests that we should prepare to have up to 10 times as many cases a week from today, and up to 100 times as many cases two weeks from today.

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But in cases of Italy which is known for their care system this didn't stop the fatality rate (among other things).

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Meanwhile, the news from Italy, another country with a highly developed medical system, has so far been shockingly bad. In the affluent region of Lombardy, for example, there have been 7,375 confirmed cases of the virus as of Sunday. Of these patients, 622 had recovered, 366 had died, and the majority were still sick. Even under the highly implausible assumption that all of the still-sick make a full recovery, this would suggest a case fatality rate of 5 percent—significantly higher, not lower, than in China.

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Either way, regardless if the Fatality rate of the flu is lower fataly and "old, weak, compromised immune systems" are more susceptible so what?

That's like saying no one should take the flu shot because it doesn't affect anyone and you're likely to die in a car accident.

This fails even more so because there's no known cure and we're not certain who has it and could be a carrier. There's also permanent damage that can happen even if you don't die from it.

The sky is not falling, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take observation of your surroundings and act accordingly and not dismiss this issue.

That said, reiterating again, I'm not of current mind to suspend housing over COVID 19. Right now the game runs and the current treatment is isolation from others (which means you'll be likely staying home), and unless SE had to turn off the servers or something due to the pandemic there's also no reason to ask for extra game days. That's absolutely silly.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You shouldn't be buying more than 2 weeks supply of food. Are people buying several months worth of stuff? That's just bad planning..

Preparation is good. Staying away from crowds as much as possible is good. Overreacting is not good.


Signed, someone in redmond dealing with all of this

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Yeah, the media has people treating it like its another Black Death that will wipe out half of earths population. Its ridiculous the panic being caused. Panic and mass hysteria are never positive.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Without having done in-depth reading (I don't have time to research right now) I was going from what I read this morning.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-...tions/12042318



As I understand it, the normal flu (also a coronavirus) can have similarly severe effects, we just have more immunity and vaccines.

Perhaps the rate of severe cases is different. As I said, do your research but from reliable sources.

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The flu is an Orthomyxoviridae where as coronavirus is a Coronaviridae/Orthocoronavirinae. They are different. Because both are respiratory tract illnesses they share some (not all) symptoms and a lot of people have been using the flu (that many of us are familiar with) as a means of comparison. But in reality we should be referring to the previous cases of MERS/SARS which were coronaviruses (as is the common cold although not a good comparison point). But since not many people would automatically know what that means they went with the flu.

The death rate for the coronavirus might shift a bit over the next few weeks but it's something like 3.4% currently so that would be 34 times deadlier than the flu that kills an average of 60k people a year in the USA (as per the CDC numbers). It's rate of transmission (R0) also seems to be about double that of the common flu (2.28 vs 1.3 - probably due to lack of immunity, but also from the fact the virus can stay active on surfaces for extended periods of time). So all in all it's a much more serious threat if left unchecked (would probably result in upwards of 2M deaths given current stats in the USA). Hence why every country is going on lockdown currently.
Furthermore, because it spreads exponentially, even cases that would otherwise survive with medical assistance may very well die from lack of said assistance like is the case of Italy currently. Where the hospitals can't handle the demand and war triage is being used (aka people who are more likely to die are given a lower priority than people who are more likely to survive, because if you only have one free ventilator you're better off giving it to someone you know it'll help live rather than someone who has only a 10-20% chance of survival and risking both patients dying. Yet sadly both could potentially have survived)

These numbers, although official, are probably a slight over-estimation of reality since there are certainly many mild cases that aren't tested and don't count towards the total (although this would also imply that the R0 is higher than the official numbers). It's still significantly dangerous enough that you would want to be extra careful as a society. With that said, the USA was infected same time as korea and we still don't have any testing and the little we have is not free ($3k). This should change tomorrow as they try to pass a new bill iirc. We also don't have sick leave so people will go into work with it if only showing mild symptoms. All in all I expect mortality rate and contamination rates in the USA to be much higher than in other first world countries. The numbers are only currently low because of lack of testing, there are already many infected people from all walks of life (athletes, politicians, average joes) with no connections, so you know the country in-between is already heavily carrying the disease.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

If you lose your house, you lose it. You can always get another one down the road.

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Sure, if I lose my house I can simply walk up to the placard on an empty plot and purchase a new one - oh, wait.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'm never opposed to implementing a stop on the timers for any reason. We shouldn't have them to begin with, but we also shouldn't have limited housing to begin with. Man, this is a vicious cycle.

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We actually do need the timer.

Imagine if there were people who got houses in ARR, quit playing all the way back then, canceled their accounts, but still own those houses that they never relinquished before they quit playing. There would be even less supply because those people will exist, and given enough time, most housing will end up falling into the hands of people who haven't played or logged on in years.

You can argue that the amount of time isn't long enough, but there does need to be a point at which if you haven't logged on and used your house, it's taken away so it can be recycled to an active player or free company.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Doesn't help that our healthcare system is a joke and worker protection is nonexistent. Some people can't afford to get tested, and some can't afford to take the time out of work to recover.

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Your post needs to be sticked. It's the harsh reality of working in the US.. I posted this bit at another forum as a bit of a joke, but unfortunately as a 19yr veteran of this company, I'm sorry to say, I've seen this happen to people who get the flu and other debilitating things:

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I just feel for kroger employees. Managers ain't gonna wanna hear crap like "Sorry I can't work because I got the coronavirus". They gonna want you to bring your butt in anyway and throw crap to the shelf + work overtime.

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I will have to return to the US soon, and it's the harsh working life that is the only reason I'm not thrilled to go back. In Finland, if you get sick, you actually get treated like a human and can stay home.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

This isn't just about fatality. Just because this is a recent outbreak it doesn't make it less worse than the flu.

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You're replying to me, but I didn't say that.

I pointed to the WHO website because they are going to have more reliable information about it. I'm not trying to back up my prior posts (which are, as I said at the time, not sufficiently researched), I'm providing something else.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

For a lot of people this means finances are going to be tight and it's not something they can really control because they're not the ones deciding that they cannot go to work and earn money. And we all know you need money to fund your place in the game.

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I really think this is too much of a stretch to expect them to halt the timer because of speculation that some fraction of the playerbase might not be able to afford a subscription. Or certainly too much of a stretch to start asking them to halt it now because it might happen to some hypothetical people sometime in the future.

Again, it's not a population-wide impact that will stop everyone from being able to access the game.

The requests to halt the timer every time there's a disaster are clearly not having an effect. They evidently have their criteria, or maybe they've even decided they're not doing it again. Let them do it when they decide it's worthwhile, instead of asking every time (especially when the answer has repeatedly been no).

One thing to take note of is that many internet/internet data providers are not pulling peoples services that cannot pay their bills due to the national emergency. (AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint and Comcast, with charter and comcast even offering free internet for 60 days.) in addition to this there are quite a few areas (san francisco for example...) banning the eviction of tenants due to coronavirus. if you still cannot pay a $15 subscription in these areas with this taken into account I don't know what to tell you, it's hard enough trying to obtain mediums and larges as is...if they cancelled timers for anything else barring major earthquakes/hurricanes we would never have plots getting relinquished and the market would be even more horrifying than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You're replying to me, but I didn't say that.

I'm not trying to back up my prior posts (which are, as I said at the time, not sufficiently researched), I'm providing something else.

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Yes, I'm replying more in general to your prior posts which more more ill researched and honestly felt like hand waving and trivializing the impact this issue has

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I really think this is too much of a stretch to expect them to halt the timer because of speculation that some fraction of the playerbase might not be able to afford a subscription. Or certainly too much of a stretch to start asking them to halt it now because it might happen to some hypothetical people sometime in the future.


Again, it's not a population-wide impact that will stop everyone from being able to access the game.

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In the next few days/next week we'll see. The reason I was on the fence is because it was just too hard to tell how big the impact was, but just a few hours ago a lot of places declared states of emergency. Schools are going to be shut down anywhere from 1-3 weeks depending on the area.

Found out not only was the US slow in starting tested, kits are in limited supply as the strain is new, the kits to develop detection take time to make, it's not some instant thing.

Being able to properly house those that are ill are a problem.
People being able to GET food - at this time I cannot get groceries because of the panic buying.

Our workplace may shut down because of the school issue it's impacted a large percentage of employees with kids, and that means we may not be able to work.

The fear is again not being able to work and afford subs in my case this isn't a big issue as I have pre-paid the sub and internet - but I can see some of the argument of being financially impacted where it affects game play.

There is only one state in the US that hasn't tested positive for a case at this time.

I think the fact it's really a global issue and the fact it's spread very quickly - it's not unreasonable for SE to pause the housing demolition at this time. The game can play - and people who do not have to worry about impacting financial issues have something to do in the meantime.

However, this is more widely impacting areas than an earthquake or natural disaster at this point. They can switch the demolition timer on and off when appropriate.

Thinking about it, what's the real con in pausing a timer at this time? - than those who feel opportunistic in grabbing a house in game because someone is in quarantine due to COVID 19. That seems pretty tasteless.

I do not think we should get refunded for subs - that's also tasteless and opportunistic.

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Originally Posted by Bravely_Default

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You used examples of taxpayer subsidized public utilities. SE is a privately owned video game company, not a public electric/gas/water/isp provider.

It would be a nice gesture to do this and/or to re-open the free log-in for lapsed subscriptions campaign. Will they do it? I don't know, but it would be nice of them to.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I really think this is too much of a stretch to expect them to halt the timer because of speculation that some fraction of the playerbase might not be able to afford a subscription. Or certainly too much of a stretch to start asking them to halt it now because it might happen to some hypothetical people sometime in the future.

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I didn't say to halt it now but I do think it is something SE should consider as the virus situation progresses.

You people sure are willing to use any possible excuse to keep something you don't even use. It's so sad.

I'm not sure which is worse.
The FFXIV "Stuff is going on, stop the housing timer" threads,
or the WoW "Stuff is going on, make us a pet/mount we can buy so you can donate the money" threads.

This article has put a finger on something:

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Most importantly, there needs to be some clearer guidance on the conflicting signals we all get about how most of us will just have a mild form of the disease, or that it only hits old people, on the one hand, and the clear alarm of health authorities about its high rate of contagion, and possibly overwhelming demands on our hospital system, on the other.

Those signals have led to a strange mix of complacency and alarm which is hard to now untangle.

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Most of what I had seen so far was relaying the "don't panic" version of events. It seems like in the last day or two, as they've formally declared a pandemic, they are shifting to more reports about how the system will struggle to cope.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This article has put a finger on something:



Most of what I had seen so far was relaying the "don't panic" version of events. It seems like in the last day or two, as they've formally declared a pandemic, they are shifting to more reports about how the system will struggle to cope.

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The issue has mostly been with the way the american government has been handling it. They've been super complacent when the rest of the world was either getting prepped or already managing to contain the spread. Without getting too political, this has been a case of "wanting to look good" over doing the actual correct thing.
There's also some obfuscation happening around the numbers. Currently the numbers thrown around regarding the death rate of the virus is of the order of 3.4-3.6% but that's when comparing deaths to the current active cases + resolved cases. In reality a more important number would be how many people survived it (fully recovered) vs how many died. And if you look at it that way it's closer to 7% mortality rate. Which is huge, any more and it would be 1 in 10.
In america so far we're closer to 50% death rate but that is only because america isn't testing properly yet so you already need to be a serious case to have been tested, and the testing is so recent that we have very few people considered to have recovered. Most cases are still active. Everyone else has just been sent home without a test and the suggestion they self quarantine.

Furthermore, around mid-feb it seemed like the world spread of the virus was plateauing but it has since then regained it's exponential growth. It's relatively serious business.

For the curious: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/