Some of the stuff yes could be seen as feedback from non-healers, like the scholar thing. But I feel more confident that things like the whm and balance feedback where more from healers. Back in SB complaining about whm and how useless lillies where was as common as people complaining about the new ast cards now. I dont think it's that black and white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkaj
I forgot who said it, but someone made a good point, that people who do like the way the game played back in the day tended to be content and happy and not give much feedback. Mr. 100 Percentile Sch was busy broiling and optimizing his fairy whereas Mr. Greyparse Mcpure heals was the one complaining that the other healer was only dpsing and thus not healing.
My thoughts on Healing in FFXIV as a new player
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03-11-2020, 10:52 AMBrandedblade
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03-11-2020, 11:05 AMSeoulstarThat isn't a bad healer..I still question where people got that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimGale
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03-11-2020, 11:24 AMBillythepancakeIt's considered bad in the same way that a RDM only using jolt is bad. Sure, it'll eventually get you through regular content, but it doesn't exactly go at a fast, or even a decent pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
That being said, if the person is new to the role, or is just unsure in their abilities, fair enough, but when I see people that have all 3 healers at max and they're still spamming cure I and making sure everyone has regen on them at all times, well, I don't say anything, or I risk Papa SE banning me, but I do cringe silently to myself. -
03-11-2020, 12:01 PMSeoulstarQuote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
No~ See that is my problem with this. The absurd comparisons. I don't even understand how those two are even remotely the same. -
03-11-2020, 12:13 PMBillythepancakeCare to explain how they're not similar? Just because one has a green icon doesn't exempt them from at least attempting to use their abilities to their to the best of their abilities. I don't see the difference between a DPS that spams 1 button and a healer that either does the same, or one that stands around and does nothing until someone gets a booboo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
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03-11-2020, 12:21 PMSeoulstarQuote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
Because you're basically comparing a DPS that isn't doing what their role is which do as much damage as possible. To a healer that isn't DPSing. But still doing their primary role. Which is keeping the party alive. While I agree that not dpsing as a healer is boring and I can't see myself not doing it. I don't go to the extreme of making such comparisons. Then again, a healer not dpsing isn't like the end of the world for me. -
03-11-2020, 12:26 PMBillythepancakeThe game encourages healers to DPS, it is very much part of the job. The WHM storyline outright tells them that dealing damage is part of being a WHM. I don't ask for healers to try and optimise for regular dungeon runs, but I do expect them to do their jobs, and a part of their job is to DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
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03-11-2020, 12:47 PMSeoulstarIt's encouraged yes. But it's not twisting your arm behind your back and screaming at you to do it. I also am aware of the WHM story, but with that being said. It's not an excuse to yell at a healer that doesn't dps. Sure I assume you can do that for things like EX and Savage, but the way people go about this is that a healer has to be dpsing in every single thing that involves the game. EX and Savage I understand because a healer dpsing there can be the difference between you clearing or getting enrage. Casual content? No, it does not justify the sheer amount of harassment. Nothing justifies how crazy people can get when it comes a healer not dpsing in casual content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
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03-11-2020, 01:30 PMelioaiko
I see both points of the argument as casual content doesn't force any type of optimal play or even understanding of the role itself. It's easy enough to push through without the additional dmg. However I think the point is that most of the healers that overheal and spam GCD heals likely have little understanding how to time their heals properly, even the GCD ones.
A whm that spams Medica I/II before and after a raidwide instead of popping Plenary Indulgence into Medica II shows a lack of understanding of the job itself. I personally have never held a healer accountable for the dps aspect of a job, as long as they're not spending their time doing nothing.
And with the amount of downtime (plenty) in the game, there's a lot of moment where there's no dmg going out in which the healer has 2 options: do nothing or overheal. Encouraging new healers to spend their downtime with assisting with dps is a good thing. I find it disrespectful to anyone if a healer just stands there doing nothing or overhealing.
Like my other post says, this is social game. Everyone pays a sub, respect each other's time as many ppl only play for a few hours a day. So if tanks and dps are filling in their downtime with timing their CDs, then the healer should assist in their downtime as well. This goes both ways as well.
This is not saying that every healer needs to be optimal and be a god-tier healer but to understand that healers don't get to just be a healbot through content and do nothing when the HP bars are full.
Likewise, healers should not be harassed if they're new to the role and content. They also shouldn't be harassed for not being the best either. We should be encouraging new healers to use their kits properly instead of just spamming GCD heals. -
03-11-2020, 01:45 PMMintnHoneyLet's make something clear: harassment is never justifiable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
That being said, a healer who does nothing but top off their party and, otherwise, sits on their haunches while the others cover for their lack of involvement is, as has been said, allowing the team to progress, but they're definitely holding them back. Therefore, if, for example, the entire team decides to boot the healer for holding them back, or got upset with them, I, personally, wouldn't feel sorry for the healer. -
03-11-2020, 02:19 PMVolkajNonono. A DPS's job is to deal enough damage to defeat enemies. Dealing as much damage as possible is optimizing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
No DPS checks? Autoattacks will do.
A tank's job is to tank! Not deal damage. Tank stance, Unleash/Overpower/Total Eclipse/Demon Slice every so often to keep aggro and some defensive CDs for those tankbusters.
No need for anything else.
A healer's job is to heal! Not deal damage. Keep the party topped off and keep your eyes peeled for raidwides!
No need for anything else. /s
No. Let's be honest here. As a party member in this team game, your task, on any role, is to maximize your contribution to the party with the tools available to you.
If it means DPSing on a healer job because the boss doesn't warrant your full focus on healing, then so be it. Standing there doing nothing waiting for others to do things for you is the very definition of being a deadweight. Even in games where healer DPS is much less significant healers still DPS if there is no healing to be done *.
* Assuming no resource constraints like MP. -
03-11-2020, 04:04 PMNeoomSpamming Cure 1/Medica when everyone is full hp does mean they are a bad healer. Just cause they are healing like their green icon shows, doesn't mean they're good either. Like someone pointed out, a dps who is auto-attacking is still dpsing right? But they don't have to optimize since it's casual content? So a healer who spam heals, doesn't even put a single dot on boss is just as bad. I can forgive if this happens say, below 50-60 content, they are fairly new to the game and healing, but if i see someone play like this in lvl80 content even more in lvl80 raids (Eden or CF) I will personally call them out or get them kicked. I understand new players not optimizing, but someone who can get to 80 and still only use two skills of the WHOLE kit, is in fact a bad player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
Call me out on being a meanie, but I rather get through my content with people who put as much effort as me, and not a lazy healer who knows one (1) spell *shrug* -
03-11-2020, 07:44 PMSaefinnArguably it is a part of the job, but for a lot of content, not an important aspect, but my general expectation of anybody in a party is to be doing something, if you are twiddling your thumbs whilst everybody else is doing something, then you could be doing more to help the run along further. Same might be if your DPS or tank were half arsing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
But I don't think we should poorly judge those who aren't able to keep up with the healer/DPS balance as for most content it's fine not to. It's good practice to optimise. Everybody is of a different level, my only request is that people don't be lazy and expect to live off the back of an easy ride. DPS is still a part of the job focus in this game.
But I agree, we shouldn't yell at people who are trying, it's like yelling at a DPS for lower DPS or a less confident tank not making full pulls. Sure they could be doing things better or more efficiently, but a lot of content is designed to be a learning curve and doesn't punish you for that lack of efficiency...so you expect people of varying levels of skill.
But the reality it, once you're a good healer, for 95% of the content you have a lot of downtime to fill. So I guess it's hard to see how anybody could be spending that time doing nothing?
Even then, we can still judge how well skilled a healer is and include DPS are part of the equation, a good healer can do more than just keep people alive. But because we can determine what a good healer is or tank or DPS doesn't necessarily have to mean poor judgment for those who aren't at that level not should there be shame in it. For the longest time I was only a passable DPS and now I think I am above average, but I expect once mechanics get involves my DPS suffers. And my tanking is okay too.
But I consider myself a good healer, because I can hold a high DPS uptime and can pull carries where there would normally be wipes.
I people just have different skill levels and I think recognising there's a high skill level is a bad thing. Just a question of how you treat people who aren't there. The only thing I don't like is if somebody has a bad attitude about it or doesn't listen. -
03-12-2020, 01:33 PMKranielHealing IS your first priority. There are many people who complain about healers who are too focused on DPS and let their teammates die in dungeons. So you should always make sure that your teammates are safe first, and then you can dedicate the rest of your time to DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by tazrenoth
Moreover, if you just started and are running dungeons, don't listen to the people harassing you because you are not doing any DPS. It is more important that you get comfortable with your class first, and then when you're at ease, you can get out of your comfort zone, and try helping optimize the team DPS.
There is actually plenty of healing to do in higher level content, but like others said, most of the mechanics are scripted, so once you know the encounter, you will end up doing less healing and more DPS. That's just how things are with the current philosophy of SE i guess.
If i may give you one advice if you want to keep playing heal though, i'd say you might want to try out Astrologian and/or Scholar. White Mage is actually the most reactive of all three healing classes and has very little to do when the party is at full health (besides DPS, as you already know).
Astrologian and Scholar have more support skills that you can use when you are not healing, so you might enjoy those classes more.