Square enix, Stop this.

You didn't move out in time, watch your log. We don't have JP ping on animation.

Instead of learning how to be one step ahead in the fight they could you know, just fix it?

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Originally Posted by Kojihimself

Instead of learning how to be one step ahead in the fight they could you know, just fix it?

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How exactly are they supposed to do that? This is a problem stemming from server limitations, which means they can't fix it unless they use new servers. Obviously FFXIV 2.0 will be on new servers, but until then you have to help yourself. You can't wait for the devs to fix every single problem. As I always say, ppl need to learn to help themselves.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

How exactly are they supposed to do that? This is a problem stemming from server limitations, which means they can't fix it unless they use new servers. Obviously FFXIV 2.0 will be on new servers, but until then you have to help yourself. You can't wait for the devs to fix every single problem. As I always say, ppl need to learn to help themselves.

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Extend the time it takes for them to actually erupt slightly to compensate for players with lag until those server fixes came out.

It's not like this fight came out recently or is this a rare occurrence.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Ifrit's been out for how long now? And you're still getting hit by these?

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Uhm.. yeah... there's times the animation is so lagged that you could run to the center of the ring and some how the cracks (where the blms chill) will still get you.. even though on YOUR screen you ran away long before they blew up.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

How exactly are they supposed to do that? This is a problem stemming from server limitations, which means they can't fix it unless they use new servers. Obviously FFXIV 2.0 will be on new servers, but until then you have to help yourself. You can't wait for the devs to fix every single problem. As I always say, ppl need to learn to help themselves.

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They could have fixed it when they did the server merge.. being that it took them 13 hours if not longer to do a simple merge of data. And who the hell hosts an online game.. not using Cisco gear? lol

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Originally Posted by Kojihimself

Extend the time it takes for them to actually erupt slightly to compensate for players with lag until those server fixes came out.

It's not like this fight came out recently or is this a rare occurrence.

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I'm not saying its a rare occurrence, im saying its not really a big problem. Extending the time on cracks or plumes would balance out latency, but the JP side will be having a snooze fest. Plus theres a matter of how much is too much, or how much is just enough. Latency in different countries is different, it'd be way too hard to find a balance that worked for all of them without completely breaking Ifrit for some of them.

Best thing to do always is to wait for tp move, use your skills/combos, then wait for tp move. If you do this I swear latency will never be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I'm not saying its a rare occurrence, im saying its not really a big problem. Extending the time on cracks or plumes would balance out latency, but the JP side will be having a snooze fest. Plus theres a matter of how much is too much, or how much is just enough. Latency in different countries is different, it'd be way too hard to find a balance that worked for all of them without completely breaking Ifrit for some of them.

Best thing to do always is to wait for tp move, use your skills/combos, then wait for tp move. If you do this I swear latency will never be an issue.

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I agree with you, it would be tricky to balance. But I think it's a better solution than making players compensate for lag, This is not fun. You're right it's not that difficult, But I'm not the best player in this game and it's frustrating to drag your group down when you would be fine if you could just see what was going on.

Learn his tells. Start running before the cracks appear. The fight doesn't need to be trivialized any further. If you're running only after you see cracks then you have plenty of room to grow.

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Originally Posted by Kojihimself

I agree with you, it would be tricky to balance. But I think it's a better solution than making players compensate for lag, This is not fun. You're right it's not that difficult, But I'm not the best player in this game and it's frustrating to drag your group down when you would be fine if you could just see what was going on.

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I know! Wasn't that long ago when I was that guy. Do it enough times and you learn though, i swear lol. Itll get to a point where you will try to get cheeky cuz you know it so well, squeezing in combos when you know you shouldnt. Course Ifrit will remind you whos boss lol. If it helps just play it on the safe side, always, at first.

The truth is... they're not gonna fix Ifrit. We found a loop hole in the fight... and they don't like it. The strategy wasn't meant to be finding safe spots.. just watch the SE video of them fighting Ifrit, they're all running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Yeah there is "Safe Spots", i only was told recently, so you can stand in 1 spot and never get hit, only time you need to run is the eruptions, those are easy to run from tho, they're not the issue, only Plumes.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Its really not that much of a problem...most of the time ppl just start running too late. Course, no one will admit that to themselves so they'll rage at the server, blame SE for latency, or whatever the case may be. Granted, FFXIV has quite a bit of server latency, but it's always been there and doesn't just show up in Ifrit. Idk how many ppl have noticed, but FFXIV registers "hits" and "misses" sometimes before you even see the skill animate. Most of the time itll register as the skill *starts* to animate. What does this mean? You are not fighting in real-time...not really. The game registers things before you see them, which is obviously really weird but not impossible to get used to. And quite frankly you *should* be used to it by now.

As an example we'll use miss abilities. I can hit a miss ability as soon as the mob starts to attack me. If its a miss my ability will go off. Now why do you think that is? Its simple..the game registers information before I see it. That means you have to either *predict* or react *very fast* to things that are happening. With Ifrit's cracks/plumes you need to cleare them *almost* instantly. If you are a second too slow, and I mean it, its too late....the game already registered the damage and once your computer catches up you will be dead. If you've paid attention to any of your Ifrit deaths, youll notice that you die before the cracks even explode. Again, this is because information is registered before the action plays out on your end. Obviously this is a latency problem, but its not unworkable.

Long story short, death on Ifrit is *usually* the fault of the player. I'm not saying latency isn't a problem, but i've done Ifrit many times and you can run it without dying at all pretty easily despite the latency. You just have realize that you can't afford to be delayed even slightly if those cracks show up, or those plumes show up. The dmg happens before you think it does, so everything needs to be handled preemptively. This means you have to be careful about the risks you take and when you use skills. Even the tail end of an animation when cracks show up means insta-death.

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This is true. Once I got used to the fight, the only times I ever died were when I would break out of my routine to try to raise a healer. There are a few simple rules to follow, like get ready for a special right after helfire or after a jump, or (at least for thm/blm) only try to cast one thunder/thundara combo after a special and then get ready to run. As long as I'm prepared to run from the cracks before they happen I always have enough time to get out of the way. As for plumes, if ifrit is positoned correctly and you know where to stand they aren't much of a problem. I rarely had to move more than few steps to adjust into the safe spot and there was plenty of time for that even with latency.

Ifrit is still easy even with latency, it just takes patience. I think the problem is always people trying to do too much in between specials. Yeah I only get off one combo, but as long as I'm focusing on myself I don't die - ever. Remember your DPS drops to zero when you're dead, and I usually seem to be at the top when other people are parsing. Staying alive makes more of a difference than getting off one or two extra lucky attacks.

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Originally Posted by Jaide

This is true. Once I got used to the fight, the only times I ever died were when I would break out of my routine to try to raise a healer. There are a few simple rules to follow, like get ready for a special right after helfire or after a jump, or (at least for thm/blm) only try to cast one thunder/thundara combo after a special and then get ready to run. As long as I'm prepared to run from the cracks before they happen I always have enough time to get out of the way. As for plumes, if ifrit is positoned correctly and you know where to stand they aren't much of a problem. I rarely had to move more than few steps to adjust into the safe spot and there was plenty of time for that even with latency.

Ifrit is still easy even with latency, it just takes patience. I think the problem is always people trying to do too much in between specials. Yeah I only get off one combo, but as long as I'm focusing on myself I don't die - ever. Remember your DPS drops to zero when you're dead, and I usually seem to be at the top when other people are parsing. Staying alive makes more of a difference than getting off one or two extra lucky attacks.

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It may be true for them but it is not true for some of the posters in this thread.

I challenge you guys to go find Griss' video on these forums and watch it. Then come back here and tell me it was his fault.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

It may be true for them but it is not true for some of the posters in this thread.

I challenge you guys to go find Griss' video on these forums and watch it. Then come back here and tell me it was his fault.

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In very very very rare cases the latency is higher than normal, meaning you basically die no matter what. But when I say rare I mean really really rare. Of all the times ive done Ifrit, it might've happened like once...and it was likely a combination of latency and lag. Deaths due purely to that circumstance are very rare though...95% of the time it is the fault of the player. This is why I say its just not a big problem, unless your hardware is just bad, in which case SE can't do anything about that.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

In very very very rare cases the latency is higher than normal, meaning you basically die no matter what. But when I say rare I mean really really rare. Of all the times ive done Ifrit, it might've happened like once...and it was likely a combination of latency and lag. Deaths due purely to that circumstance are very rare though...95% of the time it is the fault of the player. This is why I say its just not a big problem, unless your hardware is just bad, in which case SE can't do anything about that.

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You really cannot speak for everyone so please stop trying to do so. What is true for you may not be true for everyone. Like I said, watch the video. Or you can sit here with your fingers in your ears and your eyes shut and ignore the facts. Up to you.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

You really cannot speak for everyone so please stop trying to do so. What is true for you may not be true for everyone. Like I said, watch the video. Or you can sit here with your fingers in your ears and your eyes shut and ignore the facts. Up to you.

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You can't speak for everyone either. Neither can the OP. With a solid connection and good hardware, it is true that a lag spike so severe as to cause getting hit by eruptions or plumes is rare. If this was such a widespread issue then all the people I play with, as well as myself, would not be successfully avoiding eruptions a vast majority of the time.

Is there server lag? Yes. Is it annoying? Yes. Do we have more than enough time to dodge them? Yes. If I could dodge them back in 1.18 even without Fleet of Foot equipped, we can all surely dodge them now when active mode doesn't inhibit our movement speed at all.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

..we can all surely dodge them now.

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No.
I'm even starting to wonder if the server ever knows where I am standing at all.
Lately I'm even getting hit by the lava thingy even when I'm standing in a safe spot. Not just moved to a safe spot but standing there for like 3 min without moving AT ALL.
Other players see me in the safe spot too, still getting hit.

Eruptions..lol.
Sure, sometimes it's my own fault because I take some risk and execute a skill even though I should probably wait.
But that's like..once every 5-10 fights.
I'm just SO sick of getting hit by stuff I evade by far. I live in Europe, so granted, it takes a while for the client to communicate with a server at the end of the world, but still, this shouldn't be happening.
I'm willing to bear with this for now, but I think we really need regional servers for 2.0; not servers in Japan dedicated to Europeans but European servers in Europe and American servers in the US, etc.

Well, 2.0 is supposed to fix the server lag problem for the most part. I'm sure we can expect some sort of lag, but they have said it won't be anything like what we have now.

Really not much they can do now to the Ifrit fight though without trivializing it.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You can't speak for everyone either. Neither can the OP. With a solid connection and good hardware, it is true that a lag spike so severe as to cause getting hit by eruptions or plumes is rare. If this was such a widespread issue then all the people I play with, as well as myself, would not be successfully avoiding eruptions a vast majority of the time.

Is there server lag? Yes. Is it annoying? Yes. Do we have more than enough time to dodge them? Yes. If I could dodge them back in 1.18 even without Fleet of Foot equipped, we can all surely dodge them now when active mode doesn't inhibit our movement speed at all.

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I don't recall speaking for everyone. Perhaps you can quote where I did?

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I don't recall speaking for everyone. Perhaps you can quote where I did?

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Simply saying the argument goes both ways. Just cause you or the OP are somehow apparently having more issues with this server lag than others, doesn't mean its some huge widespread issue.

The facts are there. Plenty of Ifrit clears with an abundance of Ifrit weapons everywhere. The server lag has been there from the beginning. I'm sure all of us have fallen prey to glitched eruptions or cases of severe lag spikes. However there are more than enough people claiming that they are more than manageable and that these unavoidable situations are rare. Even more people in game repeatedly clearing Ifrit, thus showing it is not a problem.

Of course nobody can speak for everyone. People are different. They vary in skill, experience, knowledge, internet speed, PC build, etc.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Simply saying the argument goes both ways. Just cause you or the OP are somehow apparently having more issues with this server lag than others, doesn't mean its some huge widespread issue.

The facts are there. Plenty of Ifrit clears with an abundance of Ifrit weapons everywhere. The server lag has been there from the beginning. I'm sure all of us have fallen prey to glitched eruptions or cases of severe lag spikes. However there are more than enough people claiming that they are more than manageable and that these unavoidable situations are rare. Even more people in game repeatedly clearing Ifrit, thus showing it is not a problem.

Of course nobody can speak for everyone. People are different. They vary in skill, experience, knowledge, internet speed, PC build, etc.

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The point is, it shouldn't be an issue period. It does not happen in other games. It certainly doesn't happen in XI. So it shouldn't be happening here, even if only 1% of the population is impacted. However, we both know the percentage is much higher than that which is why this topic keeps coming up over and over again as time goes on. If I had to take a guess, I would say that the majority of people having this problem would not be brave enough to even speak out on it, afraid nobody would invite them to groups since it is always the first reaction of those ignorant to the issue at hand to blame the player.

A lot of people have just learned how to anticipate what is coming before it comes. But that hardly makes the situation ok because people should not be compensating for the game's shortcomings or finding loopholes to avoid them. Those circumstances are just another failure of game.

There is zero skill in running away when you see a glowy beneath your feet. The only unfortunate problem is that, for some people, once they see the glowy appear it is too late. The server has already decided you are dead; it just hasn't told you yet. No amount of running away is going to fix that. Hence why you can see videos of people half way across the ring, far far away from the crack, exploding and dying. People should not have to develop a sixth sense to play a video game.

Personally, I've taken to watching Ifrit's movements. However, that is still not a guarantee you won't spontaneously combust because the server still thinks you are still standing at point A.

Pointless debate is pointless.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

The point is, it shouldn't be an issue period. It does not happen in other games. It certainly doesn't happen in XI. So it shouldn't be happening here, even if only 1% of the population is impacted. However, we both know the percentage is much higher than that which is why this topic keeps coming up over and over again as time goes on. If I had to take a guess, I would say that the majority of people having this problem would not be brave enough to even speak out on it, afraid nobody would invite them to groups since it is always the first reaction of those ignorant to the issue at hand to blame the player.

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Server lag is an issue, yes. That's been established. It's related to the way the game communicates with the servers, and thus at the very core of its design. 2.0 is the only time we can possibly see a fix to server lag. That's that. Period. As for players having this problem, I've met plenty. Especially back when the content was new. Most of them had no issue after learning Ifrit's very clear and obviously deliberate tells.

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A lot of people have just learned how to anticipate what is coming before it comes. But that hardly makes the situation ok because people should not be compensating for the game's shortcomings or finding loopholes to avoid them. Those circumstances are just another failure of game.

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It's not anticipation. It's design. Ifrit does his skills in set intervals, governed by a clock. It's rhythmic. You know this, right? I mean, you have to. It's old news. Also, he never does the same skill twice in sequence. So once he does one skill, you know the next one is something else. On top of those, each of his skills have very clear tells by keeping an eye on Ifrit. His pose changes before each skill - which is also when what skill he's going to use appears in the chat log. All of these aren't coincidence. The fight was designed so that if you saw cracks or plumes appear beneath your feet, you were screwed. It was too late. Despite that, depending on position, it is still possible to escape them with quick reflexes - especially now with full movement speed, or enhanced movement speed with MNKs.

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There is zero skill in running away when you see a glowy beneath your feet. The only unfortunate problem is that, for some people, once they see the glowy appear it is too late. The server has already decided you are dead; it just hasn't told you yet. No amount of running away is going to fix that. Hence why you can see videos of people half way across the ring, far far away from the crack, exploding and dying. People should not have to develop a sixth sense to play a video game.

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Exactly. There is not much skill in running after you see danger appear under your feet. That's why they made it so you had to learn Ifrit's ways and maintain a keen eye on his movements- why you had to see what he would do before he did it. There is no sixth sense involved. It's a mix of knowledge, experience, maintaining a rhythm based on his timed executions and being astute.

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Personally, I've taken to watching Ifrit's movements. However, that is still not a guarantee you won't spontaneously combust because the server still thinks you are still standing at point A.

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So you have. You say you have, yet much of what you say contradicts that. If you know how Ifrit operates, and all of his movement patterns then how can you be talking about reacting to danger after it appears or some kind of intuition/6th sense?

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Pointless debate is pointless.

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Indeed it is. Pretty much what I'm saying. There is no debate to be had here. We all know and agree server lag exists and is a problem. We all know when it will be fixed and why it cannot be fixed sooner.

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Originally Posted by Kojihimself

Instead of learning how to be one step ahead in the fight they could you know, just fix it?

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God forbid people TRY♪

http://www.battleping.com/

Check it and try it.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...rizhei/lag.png

i hope this clears up any confusion :)

the challenge for paint came up, i couldnt resist.