PSA: Beware of the Necro Threads

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Originally Posted by Edax

With so many threads from 2003 - 2008 being dug up from the grave...

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That's not necro'ing; that's time travel.

<--Been on the forums since exactly a year after the game's launch... which was in 2010.

On topic:

Titanmen/Brofists are kind of the exception here. Most necro'ing is done because the post is still in some way as relevant now as then.

5 years from now I hope to enjoy the irony of this thread being necro'd. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz

Who cares, whole game is necro

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Is that why you keep paying a sub?

The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

<--Been on the forums since exactly a year after the game's launch... which was in 2010.

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Oops I forgot to add a "1". Fixed.

It's really annoying I have to admit. The people doing it know people are blocking them. So logically the next step of annoyance to bypass the fact that people can't see them is necro threads. Those can't be blocked from being seen. Really they should be banned imo.

I'd be surprised if anything is done about the situation since the moderators stick to a very strict set of rules that they always enforce in a specific way. If something isn't technically against the rules then it isn't likely to result in a ban even if it's annoying for other players to deal with.

Just look at how they've opted to handle the abuse of the housing system. Some players own entire wards, though as it isn't technically against the rules no efforts have been made to remedy the situation. I suspect we're dealing with something similar when it comes to threads being revived.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd be surprised if anything is done about the situation since the moderators stick to a very strict set of rules that they always enforce in a specific way. If something isn't technically against the rules then it isn't likely to result in a ban even if it's annoying for other players to deal with.

Just look at how they've opted to handle the abuse of the housing system. Some players own entire wards, though as it isn't technically against the rules no efforts have been made to remedy the situation. I suspect we're dealing with something similar when it comes to threads being revived.

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The two are nowhere close to related. When it comes to housing, they've updated the system to prevent it from happening again but they're also not going to rip away what people worked hard to get. That honestly wouldn't be fair. I'm not saying that owning an entire district is right, but they earned it fairly. Meanwhile this spamlord is technically going against the rules by adding nothing to conversation on these threads and spamming.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

The two are nowhere close to related. When it comes to housing, they've updated the system to prevent it from happening again but they're also not going to rip away what people worked hard to get. That honestly wouldn't be fair. I'm not saying that owning an entire district is right, but they earned it fairly. Meanwhile this spamlord is technically going against the rules by adding nothing to conversation on these threads and spamming.

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I've read the ToS many times. There is nothing in it that states you can be banned for reviving old threads, or reviving multiple old threads - as long as said posts have to do with the thread's topic, doesn't contain "profanity", or attacks users, etc. I think it is a big stretch to call it spamming, if I am feeling talkative, I have gone back 3-4 pages and posted in older threads, that pushed back multiple threads from the front page. What makes a thread at the bottom of the 1st page more important than something else if someone wants to have discussion? Personally, I will search for an old thread on a topic I would want to create a topic about, before I create a topic. We already have a daily limit to our posts as well.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I've read the ToS many times. There is nothing in it that states you can be banned for reviving old threads, or reviving multiple old threads - as long as said posts have to do with the thread's topic, doesn't contain "profanity", or attacks users, etc. I think it is a big stretch to call it spamming, if I am feeling talkative, I have gone back 3-4 pages and posted in older threads, that pushed back multiple threads from the front page. What makes a thread at the bottom of the 1st page more important than something else if someone wants to have discussion? Personally, I will search for an old thread on a topic I would want to create a topic about, before I create a topic. We already have a daily limit to our posts as well.

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The difference between you and the current situation is that you didn't go back to several year old posts every single day, write a comment that had nothing to really add to the topic, and then continue on to other old posts to repeat.

I have nothing against returning to an old post to search for answers or inquire further. To do things of substance. What I have an issue with is someone reviving old threads on an attempt to cover the first few pages of general discussion, or to bring up what were obviously heated threads in an attempt to cause arguments to resurface for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

The difference between you and the current situation is that you didn't go back to several year old posts every single day, write a comment that had nothing to really add to the topic, and then continue on to other old posts to repeat.

I have nothing against returning to an old post to search for answers or inquire further. To do things of substance. What I have an issue with is someone reviving old threads on an attempt to cover the first few pages of general discussion, or to bring up what were obviously heated threads in an attempt to cause arguments to resurface for no reason.

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Yeah, we may be able to infer the intention of a user posting like this, but the mods (and in-game GMs) follow the ToS, and forum guidelines strictly. If a user isn't technically breaking these, then they cannot (or won't) be banned. Keep in mind, they have a very broad view of said guidelines. The only thing they would be able to do is taking matters in their own hands and determining it is a break of the guidelines in their "sole discretion".

At first, I was annoyed by all the necro threads that kept spawning. But I saw all the replies that kept them afloat, and then I just got sad :(

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, we may be able to infer the intention of a user posting like this, but the mods (and in-game GMs) follow the ToS, and forum guidelines strictly. If a user isn't technically breaking these, then they cannot (or won't) be banned. Keep in mind, they have a very broad view of said guidelines. The only thing they would be able to do is taking matters in their own hands and determining it is a break of the guidelines in their "sole discretion".

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Disturbing the peace has always been a good enough reason to get mods involved.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, we may be able to infer the intention of a user posting like this, but the mods (and in-game GMs) follow the ToS, and forum guidelines strictly. If a user isn't technically breaking these, then they cannot (or won't) be banned. Keep in mind, they have a very broad view of said guidelines. The only thing they would be able to do is taking matters in their own hands and determining it is a break of the guidelines in their "sole discretion".

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Discussion%21

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General Forum Rules:

• Please do not make a simple post just for the purpose of "bumping" a thread.

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The guideline is there.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Discussion%21


The guideline is there.

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Alright, let's use your example. Let's go down that rabbit hole. Let's start banning users for bumping a thread. This means half the users in the male viera thread, female hrothgar, various photo threads, etc. etc. are now open to full bans - their posts are literally, and I quote, "bump". It's against the rules, so I expect equal treatment towards these users as well.

Also, by the way everyone here and in all the revived threads calling the user a "troll", are breaking multiple forum guidelines and are extremely lucky that none of you have been banned.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...la=1&tag=forum

Yes, I know from personal experience just how broad their interpretation of these guidelines are. If the user in question that this thread is about wanted to, dozens of you could be banned for breaking these guidelines.

Also, for that matter the user in question is not just posting "BUMP", unlike like the example(s) I gave above, they are still technically within guidelines. Nice try though. If you want actual quotes, of what you just gave to me. here are examples, don't worry they are direct quotes, but I won't be posting usernames.

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Bump!

Let's show them bunny bois some love

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Bump. This thread needs more likes

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That's with a quick search. In your interpretation these users are also equally deserving of a forum ban. And they should be if that's the guideline you want to use to get a user banned. These are the kind of posts your forum rule actually is supposed to cover.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Also, by the way everyone here and in all the revived threads calling the user a "troll", are breaking multiple forum guidelines and are extremely lucky that none of you have been banned.

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Is everyone just extremely lucky or is it more likely that there's barely any enforcement of the rules?

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Originally Posted by Edax

Is everyone just extremely lucky or is it more likely that there's barely any enforcement of the rules?

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Both. Admittedly, there does seem to be less moderator presence lately. However, when they come down, they come down hard. Again, I know just how hard they can come down for something "breaking" the forum guidelines - personal experience.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Is everyone just extremely lucky or is it more likely that there's barely any enforcement of the rules?

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People don't report, its that simple. People don't report RMT bots because they think its useless, people don't report players actively breaking TOS in game cause its a bother.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Is that why you keep paying a sub?

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Helluuu correct

Please dont post or reply to Necro threads started by the known Troll. There is no reason or rhyme behind them posting. Alot of the posts are misinformed and merely done to begin discord and provocation. They are merely bored and want to sow discord.

Once again, please do not feed the troll.

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Originally Posted by Cyreil

Only if you say a bad word.

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Or mention or talk about otters.

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Originally Posted by Godzillaxpowerrangers

Or mention or talk about -snip-.

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We don't mention that forbidden word here.

Legit though if the troll started talking about said marine animal the mods would step in almost immediately. The mods are very lax generally but they have a few bugbears that cause them to immediately reach for the ban hammer instead of simply deleting posts. Though in this case they aren't even doing that.

More effectively is people just self-discipline. Trolls want attention, and they're getting attention. If you think they care about negative or positive attention, you're wrong.

And no, they will not get banned for necrotic thread for the same reason why nothing will happen to people who have multiple houses in the game. "It's not against the rule". Is there a section in the TOS saying it's against the rule to necro thread? No, then that's that. Mass reporting the person doing it wouldn't do anything either no matter how much annoying you think it is. And if you think that's bad, I should remind you things work that way for a reason. Be it GMs or Moderators, you want those people to strictly follow set rules and not simply acting on a heuristic manner, regardless how wrong or how annoying a behavior is.


A few of the forums I visited have a fix rule against necroing, even when the person doing it is not trolling. Any post that necro thread that is 6+ months old since last post immediately get locked with the moderator say something like "it has been a while since the last post, and any old argument had been exhausted. Feel free to make a new thread on the same topic if you want to engage in fresh discussion". I think it's a very good rule and if we want, we can try to make the case of something similar being introduced to the TOS here. But prior to that, nothing the mods can do about it. In fact, I wouldn't want the mods to overstep their duty to hand out judgement for something outside of the rulebook.

Helluuuuuuuu

Honestly can't wait for 1/2 years to necro this thread

Funny how we suddenly have multiple new-or-returned posters bumping old threads.

Either they walked in at a really awkward time, or some people have too much time or money to spend...

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Funny how we suddenly have multiple new-or-returned posters bumping old threads.

Either they walked in at a really awkward time, or some people have too much time or money to spend...

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It's likely a case of copycat 'crimes'. The initial problem has been going on for a while now, so some other posters have probably figured out they can get away with it too.

It looks like the culprit has been banned and all his posts and threads removed.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It looks like the culprit has been banned and all his posts and threads removed.

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I knew something was off when I didn't spot a single troll or necro thread for a good while.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It looks like the culprit has been banned and all his posts and threads removed.

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Well hopefully for good. Amazing how some get banned for next to nothing and someone like this can run around for weeks doing stuff annoying most everyone.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It looks like the culprit has been banned and all his posts and threads removed.

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/WIg8P0VNpgH8Q/source.gif

Very timely reminder in these dark times

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Originally Posted by RagingStallion

Very timely reminder in these dark times

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I’m just happy he’s finally been defeated.

I understand the irony of necroing this thread, but it looks like our old friend is back to his old tricks and the PSA may be needed again.

For real. Seven threads currently have the same person as their latest responder (who looks suspiciously, and there surely can't be a connection no way at all, like Raging Stallion).

Seven threads today, and many more over the past few days.

Are the moderators' hands really so tied that they can't do anything about this? It has to fall under the guidelines against "posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members" and "obstruct[ing] the operation or use of this forum" by way of crowding out actual discussion. Not to mention the straightforward forum rule about not making a post just to bump a thread.

They have time to remove threads made directly about them. I am going to assume that they are following some strict policies from their bosses in how they handle the forums. ToS are always worded in ways that leave them up to be interpreted how they want. If the necroed threads generate continued discussion, that's on everyone who post in them and don't read the date on them first.

The moderators are here.

Personally don't see why old threads, or ones that reach a certain age (say 1 month of no activity) are just auto-locked. The most active ones will probably never reach that age anyway and the ones that do, well the discussion was obviously done.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Personally don't see why old threads, or ones that reach a certain age (say 1 month of no activity) are just auto-locked. The most active ones will probably never reach that age anyway and the ones that do, well the discussion was obviously done.

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One month seems a little restrictive considering some issues need more time for resolution. I'd probably suggest 3-6 months.

But certainly there should be an auto-lock at some point. Reviving 5 year dead threads can start invalid information circulating.

I don't see the problem with continuing an old topic if there's still something to add.
Locking old topics just because there's been no posts for a while seems very strange to me.