We need to blackball people who pull S Marks too early.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Last time I was "late" to an S mark, I was there not even 60 seconds after the call out and it was already dead. You're an idiot if you really think I'm sauntering in 15 minutes after the call out.

When I get to a mob or spawn it, I always wait for as many people as possible. It's called common courtesy, which is something most jackholes who roll up on S marks don't have.

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*call People idiot*
*speak about " common courtesy" *

i can feel your toxicity, i think it is the reason why nobody is waiting for you.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Open world content is generally not the place to be looking for a challenging boss fight because it is open to everyone who shows up for it, plus the mechanics tend to be relatively simple (regardless of what some people will try to tell you).

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Thanks for the reply. I will take your word for it that the ARR S-Ranks wouldn't be challenging because I will never know - which is what has disappointed me as a new player. I would have the patience to spawn one myself (I spend hours gathering/crafting for MB sales). But etiquette suggests I can't solo or get together a small party to fight the mark *for the fun* - I have to call it out and watch 100 lvl90s to kill it in 5s. People are particularly aggrieved when there's an early pull and the spawner misses out on the rewards. I guess the point I'm making is that at my level the best reward is *the fight itself*. For lower level S ranks the fights have been removed by the hunting community.

I wonder if increasing the spawn rate of all S ranks and decreasing the reward value of the lower level S ranks so end-gamers aren't interested would be a way to balance things without disadvantaging anyone.

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Originally Posted by A-Mahle

I wonder if increasing the spawn rate of all S ranks and decreasing the reward value of the lower level S ranks so end-gamers aren't interested would be a way to balance things without disadvantaging anyone.

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Increasing the spawn rate probably would have little effect on creating an environment closer to what you'd like. Players would still show up in large numbers because it's only a couple of minutes of effort to get the reward. Even at a reduced rate, those rewards would add up fast.

Changing the rewards is something I've mentioned myself in the past as a way to reduce congestion at hunts so they're left for players actually interested in the hunt and not the fast rewards. Take away the tomestones so only the hunt currency was left and interest would drop dramatically.

Something others have suggested is adding hunt bills so that players only receive a reward when they've got the hunt bill. No reward generally translates into no interest.

I'm not certain what things are like for your data center but for ours we have a couple of worlds that are generally considered free hunt worlds. Hunts are engaged on sight and it's left to chance on whether others show up. Those who want more organized hunts can take advantage of what's happening on other worlds in the data center. S ranks are still far less likely to be left unnoticed but A ranks get solo'd or killed in small groups on those worlds frequently. You might want to ask your data center's hunt community if they have any worlds that welcome free hunts.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Changing the rewards is something I've mentioned myself in the past as a way to reduce congestion at hunts so they're left for players actually interested in the hunt and not the fast rewards. Take away the tomestones so only the hunt currency was left and interest would drop dramatically.

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This would do little to help congestion with ShB/EW hunts because eventually those nuts will be an easy way to buy tome gear upgrades. That's when the hunt trains and S ranks become EXTREMELY busy (to the point I've seen conductors make the trains "local only" in ShB during that time) because everyone wants the easy way instead of waiting for their weekly tomes to reset.
As for the non-nut S ranks, possibly, but there's still a large section of players who need some of the seal rewards. And no matter what you do there's always going to be something that happens, for instance spawners spawn one and it gets killed before they even get there.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

This would do little to help congestion with ShB/EW hunts because eventually those nuts will be an easy way to buy tome gear upgrades. That's when the hunt trains and S ranks become EXTREMELY busy (to the point I've seen conductors make the trains "local only" in ShB during that time) because everyone wants the easy way instead of waiting for their weekly tomes to reset.
As for the non-nut S ranks, possibly, but there's still a large section of players who need some of the seal rewards. And no matter what you do there's always going to be something that happens, for instance spawners spawn one and it gets killed before they even get there.

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And yet attendance is already starting to die down (outside of reset day) to the point we're now seeing mechanics that didn't get a chance to happen just a few weeks ago.

The nut rush is only going to last the first 3 weeks of the odd patch cycles, same as we've seen the last two expansions, because people want their primary 2-3 jobs augmented as fast as possible then they'll take their time with their other jobs they rarely play. Nothing new there. The rush for nuts to get materia has died down now that Savage has been going for a few weeks so anyone using pentamelded crafted gear already has it and the supply of materia on the MB has been gradually building.

There's no point farming seals when you're already sitting on 2-3k Aetheryte tickets so without tomestones there would be far less reason to attend the old expansion S ranks.

Removing tomestones won't eliminate all attendance but it will definitely reduce it by a noticeable amount.

As for spawners not making it to their own spawns, how often has that happened since the major hunt bot added a delay to relays to players not already in the correct zone? Between flying now available in ARR zones and tracking sites having spawn maps to determine the spawn point in advance, the only way a spawner should be missing out is if they AFK right as they spawn the mark. If people not in the zone had time to teleport and get there, so did the spawner.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

As for spawners not making it to their own spawns, how often has that happened since the major hunt bot added a delay to relays to players not already in the correct zone? Between flying now available in ARR zones and tracking sites having spawn maps to determine the spawn point in advance, the only way a spawner should be missing out is if they AFK right as they spawn the mark. If people not in the zone had time to teleport and get there, so did the spawner.

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They removed the delay a mere few days after it was implemented because the aetheryte camping app users started whining about the spawners and people in linkshells getting notice of hunts before them.

In other words, they chose to cater to the vocal, but disruptive majority in favor of screwing over the people actually putting in work as well as those who rely on linkshell relays. Talk about a lack of integrity on the part of the app's designer.

The most annoying thing is that the app basically forces everyone to camp aetherytes if they don't want to miss out because there's no secrecy or structure to how things are relayed anymore (When it originally used to follow a pattern of spawners > locals > everyone else).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

They removed the delay a mere few days after it was implemented because the aetheryte camping app users started whining about the spawners and people in linkshells getting notice of hunts before them.

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That's a shame to learn. I went back into the Centurio discord to find out how I missed the update just to see Azure never made a separate announcement and instead just edited the original delay announcement 12 days later, which doesn't generate a new ping.

You're right, that was a cheap way to handle things and goes far in showing how much Azure cares about the general community compared to the users of the bot.

I also wouldn't call it a disruptive majority. They've very much a minority. Most hunters are more than happy to wait those couple of extra minutes for everyone to arrive. It's a shame the majority can't also learn to control their FOMO when the early pullers show up. S ranks aren't going to die fast if there are only 3 players actively attacking. Get a hit in then back off and stay alive works just fine for credit.

I wish SE could find a way to break the bots that wouldn't also disrupt things for normal players.

At this point I'd take just having the draw distance being limited on S ranks so they wouldn't be guaranteed to be detected/mass-relayed as long there's a player/bot with the app present in the zone.

It's probably the solution with the most impact for the least effort.

The problem with Hunts is that it tries to be this grand adventure where nobody dares to defile it with 3rd part software.
In reality it's an uneven arms race between less than scrupulous neurotic grinders who use any tool to get their 5k achievements.

If it were up to me I'd do what WoW did and turn hunts into regular rares with zone wide announcement that spawn every hour or so.
Kills of the flavour doesn't it? Sorry, players are too pragmatic to bother with something inane like that.

this has been going on sence they started the hunts and its not going to change no matter how mad you get in the past when someone pulled early we let him/her die and let the mob reset and wait for everyone to get their and then pull but i guss things change with time with so many cry babys in the hunts now.

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Originally Posted by Dzonathan

If it were up to me I'd do what WoW did and turn hunts into regular rares with zone wide announcement that spawn every hour or so.
Kills of the flavour doesn't it? Sorry, players are too pragmatic to bother with something inane like that.

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I would love to see a world wide announcement option of the "You sense the presence of a powerful mark..." that players could optionally enable and that would include the zone name. That way players on the world where the S rank has spawned would be getting alerted just as quickly as those off world using third party mods, even though they still wouldn't be getting exact coordinates.

It was rather annoying early this morning that 3 of us had been working on and off for about 3 hours to spawn Senmurv just to have it finally spawn and discover a small group including a few wanderers already sitting next to it when we got there. Fortunately, they were very polite and waiting unlike other occasions in the past where those using the mods have pulled on arrival.

The third party hunt mods exist and SE can't afford to pretend that they don't. If they aren't going to do something to block these mods (which is quite possible if it means breaking normal game play functions), then they need to add tools to the game that give players who don't want to/can't use the mods the same advantages.

Funny enough, some people seem too invested in this. Witch hunting won't help neither will blacklisting or 'naughty list'- which is actually against ToS while hunts are open world content. You just learn to accept that you won't get them all. You'll miss some hunts, it sucks but it is what it is sadly and harassing the player is likely to get you more in trouble than they will.

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Originally Posted by Rueby

Funny enough, some people seem too invested in this. Witch hunting won't help neither will blacklisting or 'naughty list'- which is actually against ToS while hunts are open world content. You just learn to accept that you won't get them all. You'll miss some hunts, it sucks but it is what it is sadly and harassing the player is likely to get you more in trouble than they will.

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This is a bad take to have. Almost as garbage as SE's current stance on the situation.

Early pullers are scummy, plain and simple. They are fully aware that hitting a hunt target before the designated time set by the spawner creates a FOMO effect causing everyone else to start hitting it too. It is nothing but griefing towards every other player currently at the hunt target or on their way to it and malicious use of the ToS for protection to continue doing it. A handful of despicable individuals that SE would rather protect instead of the far larger hunting community that follows basic etiquette. Shameful display on SE's end.

Anyone on PS5?

I'm on PS4 & the load times to get to another server often kill my chances at S ranks.

Do PS5 players have this problem?

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Originally Posted by Crobeus

This is a bad take to have. Almost as garbage as SE's current stance on the situation.

Early pullers are scummy, plain and simple. They are fully aware that hitting a hunt target before the designated time set by the spawner creates a FOMO effect causing everyone else to start hitting it too. It is nothing but griefing towards every other player currently at the hunt target or on their way to it and malicious use of the ToS for protection to continue doing it. A handful of despicable individuals that SE would rather protect instead of the far larger hunting community that follows basic etiquette. Shameful display on SE's end.

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Early pullers can't be scummy as there is no such thing as early pulling

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

Anyone on PS5?

I'm on PS4 & the load times to get to another server often kill my chances at S ranks.

Do PS5 players have this problem?

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Load times for PS5 players are quite a bit faster but internet connection can still play a role in how long it takes. There are some PS4 players who say they don't have issues with load times because they've got better internet service.

Regardless of loading speed, you shouldn't expect to make it to a S rank that spawns on a world other than the one you're currently on unless you're playing during off peak hours. Even during off peak it can depend on which expansion it's from. Hunters going after achievements show up in larger numbers at ShB and EW hunts than earlier expansions thanks to the expansion specific achievements.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Early pullers can't be scummy as there is no such thing as early pulling

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There may be no such thing as early pulling but there is such a thing as being courteous and helpful.

On the other hand, a lot of times I've seen people complaining about early pulls even though the mark had been up a few minutes longer than usual before it was pulled. Others in the community can't help it if someone is getting delayed relays.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Load times for PS5 players are quite a bit faster but internet connection can still play a role in how long it takes. There are some PS4 players who say they don't have issues with load times because they've got better internet service.

Regardless of loading speed, you shouldn't expect to make it to a S rank that spawns on a world other than the one you're currently on unless you're playing during off peak hours. Even during off peak it can depend on which expansion it's from. Hunters going after achievements show up in larger numbers at ShB and EW hunts than earlier expansions thanks to the expansion specific achievements.
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Ty for the info friend, I hope to Jesus one day I'll get the SHB hunt mount, the Triceratops is my favorite Dinosaur.

It took me all of SB to get the tiger hunt mount, but I quit dungeons & everything if I seen an S rank announcement, don't think I'll be going that hardcore again but then again if I want the mount I gotta put the work in for it.

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Originally Posted by Crobeus

Early pullers are scummy, plain and simple. They are fully aware that hitting a hunt target before the designated time set by the spawner creates a FOMO effect causing everyone else to start hitting it too.

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The problem with ARR hunts is that once its pulled, the puller can easily finish them off solo, so you are forced into joining. Waiting on that therefor does give a risk (in case it was an accidental pull), so joining in that case is simply better. And its not the spawner to decide it either, because for many players its unknown who it was anyway. And it also doesnt matter. Dedicated hunters are generaly quite well aware of what an accepted wait time is anyway. Whoever spawned it is completely irrelevant.

It is scummy to do, but other than that... nothing can be done. Its down to SE to handle this (i think a forced 5min invuln timer upon spawning would be the best solution, although that timer will then obviously also be the trigger to start attacking it). Punishing early pulls is a bad thing because there is nothing in the game mentioning this as an issue.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

The problem with ARR hunts is that once its pulled, the puller can easily finish them off solo, so you are forced into joining. Waiting on that therefor does give a risk (in case it was an accidental pull), so joining in that case is simply better. And its not the spawner to decide it either, because for many players its unknown who it was anyway. And it also doesnt matter. Dedicated hunters are generaly quite well aware of what an accepted wait time is anyway. Whoever spawned it is completely irrelevant.

It is scummy to do, but other than that... nothing can be done. Its down to SE to handle this (i think a forced 5min invuln timer upon spawning would be the best solution, although that timer will then obviously also be the trigger to start attacking it). Punishing early pulls is a bad thing because there is nothing in the game mentioning this as an issue.

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While they can be killed solo, it still takes a while. People are generally safe to wait until it's down to about 50% before joining in.

Some weeks back, I had gone to W Thanalan to spawn Zona Seeker and got the powerful mark message as I zoned in. Found 2 players already attacking it. I sent out quick relays then repeat shouted that it was already pulled, to get a hit in then back away so others would have time to arrive. Zona was up for about 3 minutes from when I found it that way, which gave a lot of players time to arrive to get credit.

The community has the ability to control their FOMO if they feel that early pulls are a problem. If they chose to assist the hunter who pulled rather than wait, then they're saying they don't feel it's a problem after all.

Maybe a solution for people using bots to hunt S Ranks and spoil the fun of an entire datacenter would be to nerf the rewards?


Not really talking about tomestones or seals, but the ammount of kills needed to get the mounts. If they were easier to get, then people would just get them and stop wasting everyone else's time.

And maybe do it like the special gathering nodes and lock them to be exclusive to people from that world only. Or at least the first hit. Not sure how that would work, but surely would stop people from going to another world, spawn their monsters and kill them without giving a chance for people of the world to hunt them.


It's weird that Squenix doesn't do anything about this. I've seen great effort from the dev team to fix all sort of issues that cause friction between players, to make it much less toxic and more pleasant for everybody to play, but hunts are still such a mess.

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Originally Posted by Alenonimo

Not really talking about tomestones or seals, but the ammount of kills needed to get the mounts. If they were easier to get, then people would just get them and stop wasting everyone else's time.

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Unfortunately not true. Most of the early pullers I know are long time hunters. They already have their mounts but still consistently show up to hunts for reasons of their own.

Again, the community has the ability to control its FOMO. Early pullers are being discourteous but by SE's rules they are doing nothing wrong. If the community prefers that the marks stay alive longer to give more players a chance to participate, then the community needs to stop assisting the early pullers when they have attacked. That has been working fairly well as we get more and more in the community adopting the practice. S ranks are lasting longer when the early pulls happen.

It's still not going to work in every situation, especially when there will be 100+ showing up but if 100 players were already there it's time to stop and think how that many got there in time to participate when you didn't. It's not because of the bot. Only a small percentage of the community uses the bot and some spawns are relayed before someone with the bot enters the zone for the bot to report the spawn.

Another small tip if you plan to participate in hunts for the day. I know this works for PC users but can't say if it will also work for PS4/PS5 users. Visit the zones you're mostly likely to be going to when you first log in. That way zone assets will already be loaded to temporary memory and you'll load that much faster when you teleport to the zone later. There's a world of difference for me when my first train of the day is one I've scouted (and had the slower loading times when doing the scouting) compared to my first train being one scouted and conducted by others. Same for S ranks - if I've already been in the zone earlier in the day, it will load much faster for me even with the congestion at the Aetheryte as everyone else is porting in.

How to tell what zones you'll most likely be going to? Check the community hunt trackers at Faloop and/or Beartoolkit. They'll show which spawn windows are open or close to opening. Even if you don't spawn yourself, the information can be helpful when you're working on your achievements.