Advice...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zerathor

Well, if it's for somebody new to savage, I feel I'd still recommend mch over rdm still. For the simple reason that fights are easier for an individual to learn on a range class over a rdm, and if you aren't used to rdm in a more stressful environment, there's going to be a lot of backflips into the abyss on some of the fights, and missed gcds if you aren't good at slide casting when you dont have dual cast. Rdm would certainly help a new group learn the fights and prog faster if your whole group is iffy, or it's a new tier, but if you yourself need experience more I think it would be much easier to learn on a ranged job.

I feel that groups recruiting wouldn't be locking out the job based on what job it is, but rather on what they're lacking. Smn is popping off right now, so you can expect casters to be more plentiful and thus groups needing a range job for the buff. The party having a smn means they also already have a dps raise. 2 dps raisers is useful as well, but almost overkill. I feel most groups wouldn't mind either of them, at least I wouldn't.

---

see, my reasoning is different in that i simply think you playing mch leaves room for a stronger combo (namely being paired up with a summoner) whereas if you allready play the weak class (and sadly redmage is WEAK right now, even if that is more on summoner being to strong than anything) and even risking being paired with a weak phys ranged (thats where bard originally came into the argument, not "bard in ultimate" specifically) that just leaves the possibility for an alltogether weaker group. but hey at least we agree on the result ?

though as someone who played brd and redmage during stormblood and now actually switched from bard to summoner (sorry but bards state right now simply ***** me off and if i'm gonna switch anyway than whatever, go big or go home) i gotta say though that i find bard more stressfull than both, that may very well be a "me" thing but as bard i'm constantly watching proccs and timers while hammering the bloodletter button like a madman or having to actually concentrate on how long my dots will keep running and that for me gets really stressfull after 2 hours of raiding especially if things go iffy, as smn (and yes, also as redmage during stormblood) the point of just where in your roation you actually are at the moment actually helps me keeping the fight mapped out in my head. yes thats not a mch thing here, but as you yourself mentioned " (physical i assume) ranged" classes i still felt it worth mentioning

Might just be a difference in playstyle preference. I primarily blm, but did brd for a short time in ucob and found it much more relaxing. Tried smn out for a while as well, but I greatly disliked the flow of the job. Wasn't so much difficult as it was just unenjoyable to play for me. From a blm perspective a lot of the fights difficulties seemed to be mapping how to move in a fight, but both of those jobs kind of removed that factor entirely and you only had to do your rotation for the most part.

If the op is fully comfortable with both jobs rotationaly though and enjoys both, I believe they find the learning experience easier with the mch. I did see them mention smn though, and if they become comfortable with that they'd get the most meta job in the game that also comfortably shares a similar bis to rdm if you ever wanted variety, or needed more power raising when you venture into pf groups.

Also yeah, I meant physical ranged, I generally call casters just casters.

@akuido. My point was simple. Regardless of whether all the random stuff you or i said. Right now balance is the best it has been since the games release. And some classes excel "circumstantially" but that still gives them value.

I too party finder raid. And btw despite my logs (cause i dont post em a friend in my static does) i have cleared all savage multiple times as dnc. Who is right there with bard. At 5.0 release some classes had it tough going in to savage. Thats undeniable. But at this point in the expac 5.1 on if anyones hitting enrage on anything other than titan the problem is most likely not the classes that have been brought.

As dancer via party finder pugging i shoulda said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

@akuido. My point was simple. Regardless of whether all the random stuff you or i said. Right now balance is the best it has been since the games release. And some classes excel "circumstantially" but that still gives them value.

I too party finder raid. And btw despite my logs (cause i dont post em a friend in my static does) i have cleared all savage multiple times as dnc. Who is right there with bard. At 5.0 release some classes had it tough going in to savage. Thats undeniable. But at this point in the expac 5.1 on if anyones hitting enrage on anything other than titan the problem is most likely not the classes that have been brought.

---

that enrage quote is pretty much besides the point, yes at this point you can most certainly do it with every combination (did it myself with brd/mch/nin/rdm a few weeks ago, still doesn't change that these players did not play any better or worse than the general party finder groups i had the last few weeks, yet we came WAY closer to hitting enrage on our kill than on basically any other group i had where players played on that level (which for pf was pretty much "avg" i would say, going by amount of hiccups and the general percentiles of the people here), can it be done ? totally. was it WAY harder than if we just had replaced the bard (hard for me to do at that point but hey) with a second melee (really any melee) and the redmage with a blackmage? yes, oh yes it was. that balance is the best since the game release lacks any real prove aside from the meta that ran supreme for ages having been broken up, that in no way shape or form proves however that classes are more interchangable than before (which should be the goal of "balance", a general level of "doesn't matter if you take class x or y while abiding certain "rules" like "no 4 ranged meta" , it only shows that the synergy between dragoon and the physical ranges was destroyed, rightfully so i might add cause that was a balancing nightmare but in no way shape or form does this prove that classes in general are now closer than they were before (closer than during 5.0 yes, but that again only proves that there were worse times before, not that it is right now in any way better than ever)

No matter how much concession i or others give you will proceeed in your crusade of the current balance.

The fact is its better than it has ever been by simply math. Ive already done so myself and do not want to waste the time combating your beligerance to prove it. But look over old records from heavensward and stormblood. The percentage differences of damage across the board are better than they ever before have been. Smn and sam may be too strong. Ranged phys as a whole may be too weak.

But there does need to be some existing gap between different roles or the roles with combat mechanics that make a raid group adapt for them to perform at their best will immediatly become the worst classes. If you could clear a savage with the best dps as all physical ranged every group would run all phys ranged because every single boss mechanic would be easier, every tactic for uptime would be unnecessary. And the dance that is team raiding would be far more stale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vendalwind

snip

---

"just look at the old logs that showed a totally different metric than the current logs while certain classes also had way better support than they have now, they totally prove my point it is simple math" ... sorry but what ? we don't have older raid dps logs, not based on our currently used metric thats exactly the problem, and even if we had them there indeed was way better support oppurtinitys on the physical ranges as well as higher co depencys between classes. am i happy with the current balance ? no, but thats not the point, i would be willing to concete the balance is better than ever, just that no one ever shows any actual proof for that aside from "look at old logs" there are NO old logs, not for our current metric, and even if they where that would completly ignore that up to stormblood 1 phys ranged compared to 2 melees would have been perfectly balanced as far as class distribution goes and back than they had things like refresh. also stop with the "phys ranged make uptime strats obsolete", so do casters and i allready gave you reasons why people would still play casters over physical ranged as well as the fact that again, you would do them anyways as long as you take even one melee unless they are at least a lot harder than they are now.

people (the guys that have such free choices that they will just fill their raid will all the best bards/mch/dancers and will totally exclude melee) surely will take neither a caster with them nor a melee for a measly 2% mainstat buff aswell as better lb coverage.

Also, thanks for at least reading what i wrote and actually going into detail why you think my numbers are off or whatever, its not like i personally agreed there needs to be difference at the top end, just that the difference both in general numbers as well as in fight design need to be set up in a way there may aswell be 1 out of 4 fights where the melee indeed ends up lower OR back at the top/at least where the phys ranged are IF the group does some harder uptime strat, cause now you have a trade off, not simple superiority as you have now, you say the balance is better than ever, i say the balance is so far of the mark you could let ninjas do the few ranged mechanics that actually exist and they would still out dps the physical ranged.

Red Mage main here.

Right now I would say the answer to your question comes down to whether or not you want to play a Caster class. Red Mage is an excellent first Caster in raids to play--you can very intuitively learn and master slidecasting because you can practice sliding with vercure anywhere. Slidecasting is a universal art, you get the hang of it on one job you've got the hang of it for all jobs, and you might even learn to be cheeky with aoes in the same way.

That said: casting is not for everyone and learning to cast is one of the hardest things in a game like XIV that has as much aoe spam as it does. You find a lot of variance in caster damage on the leaderboards borne of many factors, but a major one being a low cpm born of not finishing casts. There's a bit of daring you'd need to learn and get used to with any caster, and if that doesn't sound appealing then a melee or a ranged would be a much better pick.

Also worth considering is, if you choose Red Mage, you'll probably get asked "can you roll Summoner instead?" more than once. After hearing it enough, even from good natured people, it can wear on you a bit. Be aware that the question will exist with the current RDM v SMN balance.

On phone can't edit:

My point with the last sentence is: several Red Mages have killed TEA. I'm up to Wormhole personally and every DPS check we've met pretty handily once we'd mastered the mechanics. You'll get asked "can you go SMN instead?" Just know that if you go RDM, you're not holding your group back by playing an impossibly weak job--sure, there's a better alternative in SMN, but RDM is not a weight that the team needs to carry, as much as it might feel comparatively. You and your team may need to work harder to make some checks, but there currently isn't a check a team can't meet just because they have a SMN instead of a RDM.

*A RDM instead of a SMN. God they need to give editing to mobile, sorry for triple post