Dancer a bit feminine

Dear God, we aren't on this whole masculine feminine thing again are we, argh. When are people going to learn the masculine =/= male and feminine =/= female. Look I can understand someone not liking the aesthetics, but do point out how because something is designed in a feminine manner, it's for females. Equality isn't a one way street.

Dedue best dancer.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Well, to each their own, but I think FFXIV DNC is great: flows well and has an amazing aesthetic and style. I feel like the job was literally made for me. Just give it some potency boosts and it’s perfect.

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I feel that way about FFXI dancer, I love being able to Support and debuff and stabbing enemies with daggers, I love the waltzs too, their AF gear, it's so perfect and pretty



https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20121130131405

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Dear God, we aren't on this whole masculine feminine thing again are we, argh. When are people going to learn the masculine =/= male and feminine =/= female. Look I can understand someone not liking the aesthetics, but do point out how because something is designed in a feminine manner, it's for females. Equality isn't a one way street.

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So much this. Masculine does mean Rough cut, Strong, perhaps more abrupt. Using it as a word doesn't somehow exclude people. Nor does it somehow perpetuate the idea behind the term "toxic masculinity." We can try to be inclusive, but still use the word at it's native value to describe things. I can't believe how many people in this thread got triggered by this word.

The OP basically just wants a few moves from the Hakka or B-boy style. Maybe even throw some tango in there. Tango itself includes male and female dancers, but is a Masculine dance, Meaning Loud and abrupt.

I've just gone through all the DNC skills my Lv60 male Au Ra can access, and I'm not seeing the "soft and feminine" movements that are an issue for the OP.

If anything, I think the movements suit him better than my main Midlander girl - I was trying to take some screenshots of her costume the other night and it was actually hard to find "graceful dancer" poses to use, and certainly nothing that I didn't have to use the gpose "apply emote" feature so she'd be smiling instead of making fierce warrior faces.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I feel that way about FFXI dancer, I love being able to Support and debuff and stabbing enemies with daggers, I love the waltzs too, their AF gear, it's so perfect and pretty

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Apparently you didn't take my advice to stop proselytizing to heart. So here's a more direct response:

Cool story bro. No one cares.

I mean at the end of the day it just plays to a certain style of dancing. Of course there are so, so, so many others, some more masculine, some more feminine. I think they went for the style that worked best for a Thavnairan dance troupe given its the origin in this game world.

Personally, I am very happy with dancer and how it feels. It is also my new main.

But of course, this is one of those things that comes down to taste, which is what it'd have been regardless of the type of dancing they went for.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I feel that way about FFXI dancer, I love being able to Support and debuff and stabbing enemies with daggers, I love the waltzs too, their AF gear, it's so perfect and pretty

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Well, FFXI is still up and running. You’re welcome to go play it. I can sense the undertones here (going off of your past post history) that FFXIV’s DNC should be more like FFXI’s DNC, and I simply disagree. Not everything has to be like FFXI. Some things are fine on their own. It’s fine if FFXIV’s DNC isn’t your taste, but no need to change it—because, for some of us, it is exactly our taste.

I dont think the moves look feminine at all, but it may look that way when you wear the starting dancer costume.

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Originally Posted by svann

I dont think the moves look feminine at all, but it may look that way when you wear the starting dancer costume.

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It has nothing to do with the clothes, I've seen big d*cked lionboys and they look like girl with a pink tutu whenever they attack.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

It has nothing to do with the clothes, I've seen big d*cked lionboys and they look like girl with a pink tutu whenever they attack.

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Honestly sounds like a you problem to me.

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Originally Posted by Razard

Honestly sounds like a you problem to me.

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I don't have any problem I simply don't like it. If you want to wear a pink ribbon that's up to you, and if you think having a different opinion implies I have a problem, then it's YOU who have a problem.

I respect everything and everyone, as I said in my first post that perception is different for every person, for me DNC moves look feminine. Does that mean men can't dance? No, but the moves look feminine to me.

Some people here are just trying to look liberal when they really aren't.

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

So much this. Masculine does mean Rough cut, Strong, perhaps more abrupt. Using it as a word doesn't somehow exclude people. Nor does it somehow perpetuate the idea behind the term "toxic masculinity." We can try to be inclusive, but still use the word at it's native value to describe things. I can't believe how many people in this thread got triggered by this word.

The OP basically just wants a few moves from the Hakka or B-boy style. Maybe even throw some tango in there. Tango itself includes male and female dancers, but is a Masculine dance, Meaning Loud and abrupt.

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Thank you for understanding me

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Originally Posted by svann

I dont think the moves look feminine at all, but it may look that way when you wear the starting dancer costume.

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In a recent dungeon run I had, there's a Hrothgar dancer wearing Nezha Lord slops and shoes plus southsea talisman. For the first time I thought the dances look really cool on a big lionman.

idk what your idea of feminine is, but Highlander males look sexy as hell as dancers, including how they look with the animations, and they are some of the manliest men of the bunch.

This thread seems to be more about personal insecurity rather than actual critiquing of a class. Of course I am also a straight dude who has no problems saying a male character is sexy. I just don't understand why ppl fuss over such silly things.

I agree with the original poster, dancer class seems fun but the moves just arent something i can get immersed into, as feminine isnt my style. i was hoping they would have moves more similar to say Capoeira. I hate that everyone celebrates when a man wants to act feminine but not when they want to act masculine.

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Originally Posted by hurricanes

I hate that everyone celebrates when a man wants to act feminine but not when they want to act masculine.

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That's because of the stigma that is plaguing our societies. Women are encouraged and allowed to be both feminine and masculine, but if a man goes too far in one direction or the other they are either viewed as weak or arrogant. Most societies are trying to focus on how to broaden a child's scope of being, but that usually only applies to girls. Basically, we feel more comfortable raising girls as we would boys, but not boys as girls. And sadly, not to get into any specifics, we wont reach any definitive results until we focus a bit more on the male half of inequality, but being as male-centric as we are, that wont happen anytime soon, because, men don't have problems, pfft, are you crazy.

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Originally Posted by Eldtagg

I used to dance a lot of streetdance and breakdance when I was a teenager

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it's eaorzean dance, not breakdance.


also I guess they wanted it to be swift and gracefull ...

see this is why dancers cant have nice things.

Honestly, I don’t even pay attention to animations half the time I’m in battle. Usually more focused what’s going on than myself. Though from what I seen they aren’t that feminine. The only job that comes close to that would probably be ast, at least in my opinion.

Considering the extreme overabundance of '' masculine dude bros '' in games, I think that you can deal with something a bit more feminine...

This is sorta like complaining that a characters boobs are '' too big '' in a game with a crap ton of characters to me.
Not every character or whatever needs to adhere to what you want, just play something else.
I dunno tho, I just find these complaints very irritating personally.
Because I don't sit around complaining just because something doesn't adhere to what I want.
I do complain when what I like is taken away and changed to pander to others, but I think that's totally different ( and because I never demand that it's done for my sake either ).

A lot of Japanese games like these are sort of an escape from that to me too, because the Western industry is so completey infested with masculinity imo.
To the point that it often feels as if femininity is demonized in the West, even by so called '' progressive '' studios and publishers.
Not saying that masculinity is bad, I am a pretty masculine guy irl and probably the furthest away from what people would expect when they see my characters and what I like in games.
But it gets very tiresome when everything is so dark and '' gruff '' in the West, and then people still complain when there's exceptions to it that it's '' not masculine enough ''.

Dancer didn't appeal to me gameplay-wise, I thought that I'd love it but I didn't.
But aesthetically and animation-wise they're amazing imo, and I wouldn't want to see them be changed just because someone wants yet another masculine character number 999999999999999999999.

I play a Hrothgar and I dig the animations. The only one I don't like is the running one, which I'd say seems... kindy dainty? It looks like he's barely holding onto the chakram between the tips of his fingers.

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Originally Posted by M1551NGN0

k

/10char

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stop being so rude dude. lol so closed minded added nothing to the post and literally derailed the topic. I agree op but it doesnt bother me as much.

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Originally Posted by Leareaux

And blue is for boys and pink is for girls, right?

Nah dude, they're just colors.

Seeing as SE made the animations for this 'warrior dancer' job, it's a hard arguement to say 'it should be more this and less that.'

If you stuck to your 'heavy' and 'soft' attributes I'd simply write it off as your take. But it's 2019. The way you move or what weapon you hold doesnt make you any more or less masculine.

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this argument is so weak. He just wants something more aerobatic. like flying kicks and flipping off enemies or break dancing. Add something epic mixed in with the "graceful" moves. Right now it is feminine 2019 or not its true. blue is for boys and pink is for girls-always will be that stereotype regardless if you chose to break it and you are free to do so. Yes is takes skills to be a male feminine dancer but that is fine. this white knight stuff has to stop and you gotta stop attacking people that have a different opinion . we all can read the underlying message of your hate attack against op. not cool dude.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Considering the extreme overabundance of '' masculine dude bros '' in games, I think that you can deal with something a bit more feminine...

This is sorta like complaining that a characters boobs are '' too big '' in a game with a crap ton of characters to me.
Not every character or whatever needs to adhere to what you want, just play something else.
I dunno tho, I just find these complaints very irritating personally.
Because I don't sit around complaining just because something doesn't adhere to what I want.
I do complain when what I like is taken away and changed to pander to others, but I think that's totally different ( and because I never demand that it's done for my sake either ).

A lot of Japanese games like these are sort of an escape from that to me too, because the Western industry is so completey infested with masculinity imo.
To the point that it often feels as if femininity is demonized in the West, even by so called '' progressive '' studios and publishers.
Not saying that masculinity is bad, I am a pretty masculine guy irl and probably the furthest away from what people would expect when they see my characters and what I like in games.
But it gets very tiresome when everything is so dark and '' gruff '' in the West, and then people still complain when there's exceptions to it that it's '' not masculine enough ''.

Dancer didn't appeal to me gameplay-wise, I thought that I'd love it but I didn't.
But aesthetically and animation-wise they're amazing imo, and I wouldn't want to see them be changed just because someone wants yet another masculine character number 999999999999999999999.

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this is FARRRR from true. games are now far more feminist than masculine as most people play girls and guys are scarce. i think you need to get off your high horse and respect that men have rights too. There's nothing wrong with wanting more masculinity in game when 90% of the game focuses on feminist aspects

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Originally Posted by Razard

Honestly sounds like a you problem to me.

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again, stop personally attacking people for having opinions tryin to meme by saying "you problem" have some actually feedback...

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Originally Posted by Eloah

That's because of the stigma that is plaguing our societies. Women are encouraged and allowed to be both feminine and masculine, but if a man goes too far in one direction or the other they are either viewed as weak or arrogant. Most societies are trying to focus on how to broaden a child's scope of being, but that usually only applies to girls. Basically, we feel more comfortable raising girls as we would boys, but not boys as girls. And sadly, not to get into any specifics, we wont reach any definitive results until we focus a bit more on the male half of inequality, but being as male-centric as we are, that wont happen anytime soon, because, men don't have problems, pfft, are you crazy.

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this is the most well thought out and well educated written/non biased response from the forums. Thank you for being the rational and logical one of the internal. but i expect no less from a lalafell

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Originally Posted by guardin

this is FARRRR from true. games are now far more feminist than masculine as most people play girls and guys are scarce. i think you need to get off your high horse and respect that men have rights too. There's nothing wrong with wanting more masculinity in game when 90% of the game focuses on feminist aspects

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Highlander, Roe, Catboy, Male Au'ra, Hrothgar.

Dark Knight, Warrior, Monk, Samurai, Dragoon.

Those that incorporate both:

Machinist, Paladin, Gunbreaker, Scholar, Summoner.

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Originally Posted by guardin

this is FARRRR from true. games are now far more feminist than masculine as most people play girls and guys are scarce. i think you need to get off your high horse and respect that men have rights too. There's nothing wrong with wanting more masculinity in game when 90% of the game focuses on feminist aspects

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This was physically painful to read. 0/10 not enough water.

Well the community have been asking for this in a somewhat way via lgbt type of thing. It'll be fine, dancer supposed to be "flexible" in their actions. It still needs a buff though in their DPS.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Well the community have been asking for this in a somewhat way via lgbt type of thing.

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Femininity in men is not lgbt. Grace in men is not lgbt. Expecting someone who is lgbt to have this attributes is, however, homophobic in nature. Its like saying we got mcn cause ppl wanted representation of PoC.

Gayness has nothing to do with these sort of things. The only thing you need to express being lgbt is having an attraction to the same sex - both sexes - and transitioning to the opposite sex respectively. No where in lgbt does it state that anyone has to adhere to any sort of stereotype, negative or otherwise.

The community has been asking for lgbt relationships or expression, but the last thing they need is for SE to perpetuate stereotypes because of some short sighted and ignorant view on what is lgbt. I have so many gay friends who are so tired of the assumptions they get when they tell ppl they are gay. "Oh did you watch Drag Race last night" "take me shopping" "you are my new gbff" "you play football? I thought you were gay?" believe me, there are a whole lot of gay ppl who are tired of this sort of thing. All they want is ppl to just stop with the stereotyping.

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Originally Posted by guardin

this is FARRRR from true. games are now far more feminist than masculine as most people play girls and guys are scarce. i think you need to get off your high horse and respect that men have rights too. There's nothing wrong with wanting more masculinity in game when 90% of the game focuses on feminist aspects

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What the hell are you talking about lol?
I never said that men don't have rights..................................................................

Games are not more feminine nowadays at all, especially not in the West.
Femininity is quite downplayed in the Western industry and more traditionally masculine shenanigans are pushed even on female characters because a lot of people are just performatively woke and demonize femininity as something weak and oppressive, hence why women have to look and behave more traditionally masculine in Western games,
Not saying that's wrong for those who want to do that, but I do think that there's a demonization of femininty in the West which is kinda messed up.
And Japanese games are an escape from that to a lot of us, I appreciate that the Japanese aren't as scared of femininity.

In Japan femininty in media is far more normal and okay, even amongst men.
Both men and women being more feminine or masculine is more okay in Japanese fiction.
FFXIV is pretty good with this all-around and gives a lot of options but still do align mostly with the norms still.
And I don't see the problem with Dancer being more feminine when others are more masculine.

I'd rather FFXIV be like FFXIV than to just have them reduce feminine features and put everyone into the most gender-neutral clothes ever as to not '' offend '' anyone.
I am not opposed to options tho, if people want to play a male character wearing a skirt then I think that they should be able to as well.

But I think that it's too much to ask for when people ask them to adapt animations for a job.
If they're going either way then they have to choose and you have to suck it up and deal with it.

Edit: Feminism isn't the same as femininity either lol.
The usual Twitter/Tumblerinas causing a fuss about video games are usually quite opposed to femininity and see it as oppressive and part of the patriarchy and all that.
Usually they're very young and are still figuring themselves out.

As someone who exclusively play female characters in games and prefer feminine characters I can tell you that I feel extremely excluded by most of the Western games industry.

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Originally Posted by spurious_correlator

I play a Hrothgar and I dig the animations. The only one I don't like is the running one, which I'd say seems... kindy dainty? It looks like he's barely holding onto the chakram between the tips of his fingers.

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I didn't like the running animations either, nor the standing neutral ones.

I feel like it's a bit of a missed opportunity.
I mean, I am a Dancer right?
Why ain't I dancing :P?
Their standing stance should have them move around more imo, I think that they should look as if they're always moving and dancing unless the weapons are sheated.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I didn't like the running animations either, nor the standing neutral ones.

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Agreed on disliking the animations, but I would have preferred a single graceful "poised for battle" stance. The jogging on the spot is annoying and it looks like a rather stiff and uncomfortable pose to hold.

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Originally Posted by guardin

this argument is so weak. He just wants something more aerobatic. like flying kicks and flipping off enemies or break dancing. Add something epic mixed in with the "graceful" moves. Right now it is feminine 2019 or not its true. blue is for boys and pink is for girls-always will be that stereotype regardless if you chose to break it and you are free to do so. Yes is takes skills to be a male feminine dancer but that is fine. this white knight stuff has to stop and you gotta stop attacking people that have a different opinion . we all can read the underlying message of your hate attack against op. not cool dude.

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You mean monk? Cuz that already exists.

We don't need multiple jobs with the same movesets.

Monk has the more breakdancer-y moves.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Femininity in men is not lgbt. Grace in men is not lgbt. Expecting someone who is lgbt to have this attributes is, however, homophobic in nature. Its like saying we got mcn cause ppl wanted representation of PoC.

Gayness has nothing to do with these sort of things. The only thing you need to express being lgbt is having an attraction to the same sex - both sexes - and transitioning to the opposite sex respectively. No where in lgbt does it state that anyone has to adhere to any sort of stereotype, negative or otherwise.

The community has been asking for lgbt relationships or expression, but the last thing they need is for SE to perpetuate stereotypes because of some short sighted and ignorant view on what is lgbt. I have so many gay friends who are so tired of the assumptions they get when they tell ppl they are gay. "Oh did you watch Drag Race last night" "take me shopping" "you are my new gbff" "you play football? I thought you were gay?" believe me, there are a whole lot of gay ppl who are tired of this sort of thing. All they want is ppl to just stop with the stereotyping.

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Ok...nice way to be triggered, but whatever. Ah well, I better be careful with my words or i'll be put on timeout...

I don't dance IRL so wouldn't know, but are there any masculine dances that have mostly circular movements? Like, in order to smoothly throw these chakrams that the FFXIV Dancers use? I can't see a hip hop or break dancer spinning and throwing 2 hoops around with their rigid and jerky moves.

Of course, I don't dance and I only leveled my dancer to 80 and dropped it.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Ok...nice way to be triggered, but whatever. Ah well, I better be careful with my words or i'll be put on timeout...

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Respond in a polite way, explaining a perspective that some people do not see and of course that means I am triggered. Cause when you can't have an adult conversation about stereotypes, just call the other person triggered to help feel good about yourself.

LOL ok, you do you

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Originally Posted by Razard

Apparently you didn't take my advice to stop proselytizing to heart. So here's a more direct response:

Cool story bro. No one cares.

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They are giving their opinion, not trying to convert people? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, at least in a non-facist world. Nice mature addition to the discussion though :rollseyes:

And this is why we don offer opinions online. That said, DNC is fine...mebbe a lil short in pDPS but I like givin out buffs. DNC has a flow and personality that I feel other classes have lost. If anyone feels it's too feminine then mebbe it's just not for them? There's a lot of other classes to play and that's where the appeal comes from, not every class need appeal to all, but most should find a class that appeals to them. Kinda mirrors RL dontcha think?