Suggestion: Add a disable option for Rescue

I have to laugh cause most of the time they use it too late or pull from something that isn't that bad into something worse.

But how else would I encourage my tank to pull more?

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Originally Posted by MPK

But how else would I encourage my tank to pull more?

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By telling them they could pull more. If you do this then shame on you. I said this on the DF stories once but
I had a healer do this to me as a new tank in Shisui a while back and I told them I was new to the dungeon and
instead of telling me she could handle bigger pulls, she runs past me, grabs mobs then forces me to pull them all off her.
So no. That actually really irritated me. I didn't say anything and pulled more as I went since I then knew
the team could handle it but still.
(Btw I dunno if you did this not or joking, I just thought about it when you said this.)

As for Rescue itself, the problem for me is, you can almost barely rescue well unless
there's a long start up in a boss mech because the delay of use.
The cast is instant, but the tick to pull people to you isn't.

I have been in to many pf groups for content that has a person who will not listen and refuses to do mechanics, Rescue is the most useful thing ever here because you can stop slow person from killing everyone by just tugging him away at the right moment

I think Rescue is very usefull during Titania EX last phase, when someone get hit by phantom rune. Otherwise, it's just a troll skill ( like many others, I've been rescued in aoes by FC mates just because they thought it was funny. It's not.).
Do they need to remove it/add a disable option? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by MPK

But how else would I encourage my tank to pull more?

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I don't like this at all. Just like Jybril's story, not all tanks are comfortable with big pulls or take a little while to get started. I seldom tank and when I do I'm usually a little anxious at first, but once I get in to it I then go on to pull bigger if it's possible, it doesn't help if a healer is dragging me on purpose because they are unhappy with the pace. Say if you want more but don't try to control it with Rescue, doing it more than once then sorry that's going to be reported.

Rescue is too useful, the cases of misuse are too small, this is just confirmation bias: the thread. You saw it being misused once or twice and you think it's a widespread issue. That's not a reason to remove or disable a skill.

The fact is that everyone who actually needs to be rescue doesn't know they need to be rescued, if they knew they wouldn't be standing in bad in the first place. If someone uses it in bad faith report them, if someone makes a mistake take a breath and realize you don't die IRL if you lose a gcd.

I used rescue on my dragoon in e3s recently who used LB3 at the worse time, I was able to get him out of the animation lock while still getting off the damage and saving him from the mechanic coming right after. I also really enjoy dragging someone off with me when I see a run is dead and just want to reset. (about the only fun part in healing anymore, tbh.)

You said they were using it to stop tanks from wall to wall pulling, whereas I have had healers yanking me around to tell me to wall to wall pull XD
I did die in a dungeon earlier from doing wall to wall pulling, after a healer yanked me and then they face pulled more. I took the adds off her, but the incoming damage was too much even with using CDs.

I do hate it when I am easily dodging AoEs, but due to ping it doesn't look like it on their screen, so they yank me, it can feel pretty disorientating.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

This is not often taken that way though. What happens is the person is suddenly somewhere else and has to mentally reorient, and may likely have blown a cooldown in a now bad spot or have lost a few GCDs from their rotation and need to re-evaluate what still lines up.

And they may not know why even after whatever you saved them from hits - the camera shift and mental wtf will both possibly block them from learning...

Communication or just letting them eat the debuff a few times is better.

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I was on call with the tanks new to e4, so that was never in issue, and I would rather keep the MT alive (No cooldowns used, since I moved him and nothing saves you from falling off if Rescue can trigger) than allow them to die just to learn. The fact I rescued the e3 tank 3 times for Tidal Wave shows that they clearly never learned even after it should have been obvious.

Never once used Rescue on my healer jobs as the only times it was used on me were from trolls. I am with the camp that says do away with it as I see no real use especially with getting it to work right with bad connections and such.

If rescue worked for the shadowbringer dungeon to get across that one empty floor mechanic then yea it would be useful but otherwise nope.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

Never once used Rescue on my healer jobs as the only times it was used on me were from trolls. I am with the camp that says do away with it as I see no real use especially with getting it to work right with bad connections and such.

If rescue worked for the shadowbringer dungeon to get across that one empty floor mechanic then yea it would be useful but otherwise nope.

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In a few savage fights rescue is actually mandatory for some strats (see: o12s and unreal strat) it also has a use for melee DPS that just used LB to get them out of the animation lock faster so they can get back to DPSing. So to say it has no use outside of trolling is wrong. Maybe it's not as useful as it should be, because server ticks are honestly ass in this game, but it does have its uses.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

In a few savage fights rescue is actually mandatory for some strats (see: o12s and unreal strat) it also has a use for melee DPS that just used LB to get them out of the animation lock faster so they can get back to DPSing. So to say it has no use outside of trolling is wrong. Maybe it's not as useful as it should be, because server ticks are honestly ass in this game, but it does have its uses.

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I don't do savage so didn't know about that as yea I agree animation locks can suck.

Hmmm.... Rescue messed up your rotation? Dragged you into an AoE? Maybe even killed you?

Ohh, I wonder many times DPS have forced me to use a CD on them instead of the tank? Put their AoE on top of me? Killed me?

Trust me, other players make me do things I don't want to ALL the time. Rescue is one of those things you simply have to deal with when you queue up with randoms. Also note that a healer might Rescue you to save their own butt. I've done this countless times when I need someone to stack with me, and you can best believe me avoiding a KO status is more important than your deeps.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

This would be the equivalent of removing the skill from the game. WoW doesn't have such a thing and never has for its rescue-equivalent and it does fine.

Just because you feel you don't need it, doesn't mean a 'disable assistance' button should exist, as it would simply lead to people who are much worse players than you ending up standing in AoEs and the only way the healer can get them out of the AoE doesn't work because they felt the need to use that option. And then the healer has to use their mp to raise the person...all in all, such an option does more harm than good. And at a time where healers have so few options to do their job to begin with, you want to take away another option from them?

There's also advanced tactics like using rescue to get DPS out of limit break animation lock, which would completely go away...

Instead, if you feel you are being griefed by healers, then you should perhaps use the report feature the game offers instead of making a thread like this. Healers get griefed by tanks and dps all the time, report them, and move on.

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Reporting does nothing. I've reported multiple healers abusing it in actual abuse situations (using it on purpose after I asked them not to), and I see them in DF later because nothing happened.

Using Rescue to cancel DPS limit break animation is a pre-planned maneuver 99% of the time. Any intelligent uses of Rescue would still be there for group play since you can turn it back on.

"And at a time where healers have so few options to do their job to begin with, you want to take away another option from them?" I have no idea where this is coming from. Healers are stronger than ever. It is mathematically incorrect to say anything different. Healers have been given stronger heals potency-for-potency across the board, with WHM even being blatantly and heavily overtuned. No amount of "options" will save someone from stupid, so if someone getting hit by AOEs is such a big issue then do it the old fashioned way and let them die and don't raise them until it's convenient for you. They probably aren't contributing enough to the party otherwise to need to be alive anyways.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I've never seen this in my 6 years on this game. Can't be that common?

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Yes, this happens. Not incredibly frequently, but ignore marks as a form of harassment are very common in PVP mainly and I've seen it used in alliance roulette many times over the years. I've seen it happen to both others and myself.

Only time I use it is to grief my boyfriend XD

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Hmmm.... Rescue messed up your rotation? Dragged you into an AoE? Maybe even killed you?

Ohh, I wonder many times DPS have forced me to use a CD on them instead of the tank? Put their AoE on top of me? Killed me?

Trust me, other players make me do things I don't want to ALL the time. Rescue is one of those things you simply have to deal with when you queue up with randoms. Also note that a healer might Rescue you to save their own butt. I've done this countless times when I need someone to stack with me, and you can best believe me avoiding a KO status is more important than your deeps.

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Can't agree more.
I have to deal with people killing me because of MUH DEEPS, forcing me to blow oGCDs on them when they would've been more important later on, forcing me to ST heal them because they stood out of range for aoe heals or even have to run after them, they will have to deal with healers pulling them into their bubbles and stack markers.
If I see a tank dancing around right outside my Earthly Star, I will pull them inside.
If I see someone ignoring my stack marker though I positioned myself nicely, I will pull them inside.
If I see someone about to get killed by a mechanic, I will pull them to a safe spot.
If I see someone using LB, I will pull them out of animation lock.
If I see someone standing at the other end of the goddamn planet, I will pull them closer to the group.
Is it annoying for them? Probably.
But they could just... you know... not stand in bad/ at the end of the world/ outside of stack markers. I prefer mildly annoying them over my own death/ their death.

Oh and I admit, I also use it to troll my friends. Because that just never gets old. Let's see which comes first: their knockback immunity or my Rescue. (:

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They can't get rid of it.
Minor ShB spoilers:

It's in a cutscene now!

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NPCs are still castin stoneskin though...

On topic. I used resque twice maybe? Last time was at Aglaope when I noticed confuzzeled tank running to deathly song. Except the other healer used it a milisecond earlier so tank got ping ponged around /facepalm...

I've used Rescue more times in ShB already than the entirety of SB.

My usual cases of Rescue in ShB so far:
1.Final boss of 71 dungeon double just over half room cleaves you get hit by 1 i will rescue you to safe side(you already lost dps due to being knocked up)
2.all bosses of 75 dungeon each and every one i've had to rescue people to safety sometimes wish it had a shorter cd >_>, Last boss more if i see you don't prevent knockback.
3.Titania ex vines just to allow the melee to keep as much uptime as possible

Then you have the myriad of people who run away with stack markers or worse run from me when i have it (your above level 70 you should know the marker by now), the people who just don't move for anything and the people who troll with mechanics for their own amusement.

Has Rescue been misused by people, oh yea, always going to be bad apples at points, i still remember you hlr who rescued me as i was about to technical finish to the far edge of platform where no else was (and then proceeded to not use a single dps spell was icing on that sundae) but doesn't mean the skill needs to be removed or have an opt in system else every skill that interacts with a party member should.

I agree with you OP, or I'd just remove it from the game. Adding a skill into the game that allows another player to control where your character goes (admittedly briefly) is way too open to abuse.

One place it has a use is the S rank Agalope during Seductive Sonata, which forces players who are too close to march into a melee range one-shot.

The funny part is quite a few times when we have multiple healers and one guy gets caught, we all seem to go "finally, our moment to use this ability!" and the poor player gets ricocheted around the area like a tennis ball between several healers. I've seen up to a 4 way chain so far. Fun times.

You couldn't add an option to disable it, unless you also added something to display who has it enabled/disabled so the healer knows who they can use it on beforehand. And if there were some people who it couldn't be used on it probably wouldn't be worth having at all since it's such a limited thing.

I would rather have something like a divine benison where I could just bubble someone to be able to take the hit, but I guess that would just become a boring raid tool for use on tanks only.

I like the idea of rescue, but the limited number of situations it's actually useful and my latency make it not a great ability.

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You couldn't add an option to disable it, unless you also added something to display who has it enabled/disabled so the healer knows who they can use it on beforehand.

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Why's that necessary? This game happily lets you waste Raises on people who already got one (a problem that was noticeably absent in FFXI for the record; as soon as someone got a Raise all other Raise attempts on that person would fail to cast and therefore not waste any more MP); why would they make an exception with this?

I'm for an opt out. Been recused too often when i didn't need to be rescued. I prefer to be responsible for my own gameplay and don't need the healer being active on my behalf.

I have only seen people troll/kill and lower other people dps with rescue in pve but in pvp you sometimes get good healers who actually rescue you with the rescue.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm for an opt out. Been recused too often when i didn't need to be rescued. I prefer to be responsible for my own gameplay and don't need the healer being active on my behalf.

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That is a valid argument. However, I will point out that the healer is still responsible for your well being. When used correctly, Rescue is a great skill in the healer arsenal. One will argue that it is hardly used correctly, and that's fair; but to take it away from the healers who do know how to use it is not fair. Should other jobs in this game lose abilities as well because players don't know how to use them correctly? Everything we do in party play affects the group in one way or the other; directly, or indirectly.

Another thing about Rescue is you have to keep in mind that if it is used on you, you might be about to eat a mechanic you are not aware of. After all, that is how most of us get hit by them in the first place. I will also mention again that you might just be the innocent bystander (especially if you are the last person on said healer's party list) that the healer pulls to save their own hide because no one is stacking with him or her. It is kind of a bummer for you, but you took one for the team and the healer will probably toss a comm your way. I know I would.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I'm for an opt out. Been recused too often when i didn't need to be rescued. I prefer to be responsible for my own gameplay and don't need the healer being active on my behalf.

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Are you gonna raise yourself if you die? No.

As long as your death or unnecessary dmg taken cost the healers cooldowns, gcds and MP there's nothing wrong with a healer trying to rescue you from death. They are trying to save their own resources by babysitting you. If you don't want that then do mechanics properly.

The one time I used it, I noticed one big fat huge no no about it: It has a delay before activation. This rendered it useless to me and especially dangerous the one on the receiving end of it. Basically it's swiftcast all over again. I should have expected this from the jump though, because if it's anything like Skyrim's movement functions, Rescue needs to calculate 6 positions before the movement begins.

Most times it has been used on me though were like "why?", the most recent one was being "rescued" into an AST healing circle, even though I was already running towards it.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

If rescue worked for the shadowbringer dungeon to get across that one empty floor mechanic then yea it would be useful but otherwise nope.

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that's why i said it should be a warp to healer tool instead of a move to healer tool. be much more functional and useful

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

The one time I used it, I noticed one big fat huge no no about it: It has a delay before activation. This rendered it useless to me and especially dangerous the one on the receiving end of it. Basically it's swiftcast all over again. I should have expected this from the jump though, because if it's anything like Skyrim's movement functions, Rescue needs to calculate 6 positions before the movement begins.
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This is pretty much why very few healers use Rescue. Most of the time, it simply doesn't go off quick enough.

Rescue does indeed need to do a bunch of work to go off.

It targets the player, confirms your position client side, goes to that player, confirms where they are, moves them on their client side, then they are moved server side - and that's when everyone else sees them move.

Rescue is one of those spells that simply don't work as well as they could because of the server ticks. It needs to go through 2 clients, and the server.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I've never seen this in my 6 years on this game. Can't be that common?

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It's about as common as healers using rescue when it's not needed, which is pretty rare.

I've found the ability fires so slow, it's utterly useless unless you've noticed a particular player is consistently slow at dodging and you have to start anticipating that it's coming and be ready for it.

Frankly, I wouldn't miss it if it was removed completely.

Keep it in the game. Trolls will troll; they'll just find a new toy. Mistakes happen in the case of accidental killings and pullings.

I can't tell you how many times I've loved my co-healer that's rescued me, or I've rescued them, for an AoE set right on them after a much needed healer LB3. That animation is, by far, the worst lock in the game for that healer.
Rescuing after an LB in general - once the cast is done, the LB has already "hit."
Some person who, apparently, has never seen a stack marker before and runs away from the party <insert Scorpion soundbite>.
Coordinating with team mates for use (I rescue my tank after flare goes off for E3S so they get more up-time); something similar was worked out in O12S. Anyone that gets feared in Titania EX, I'll rescue before they get to the edge. I don't bother rescuing for growth because all melee have a quick move option (MNK's Shoulder Tackle; DRG's Elusive Jump; NIN's Shukuchi; SAM's Hissatsu: Gyoten).

For those that don't want to be rescued and can suspect a time a healer would use it: Arm's Length/Surecast nullifies the pull. A lot of people don't know this or, I guess, they figure a player skill can't be cancelled out like that. I baffled a light farm party that was mostly healers that were doing troll pulls and I happened to be working on SMN relic. They were pulling people into the lasers (and that happened to be a point in the rotation where I needed to hardcast DoTs). After they pulled me the first time, I went to a corner far away from their reach so I could easily see when they had to approach me and surecast. Now, missing the DoTs, or messing with my rotation in general, wasn't end of the world and getting worked up over it was more trouble than it's worth. Instead of complaining about it to them, I simply made my own solution.

I often get rescued shortly before or after I have used Aetherial Manipulation, especially in E1 with this endless long cast where we have to hide behind the boss in the corner. Would be more funny I guess if the healers would not cancel my casts with Rescue >.>

I mostly use it to bring someone into my cure3 range when someone think he's a special snowflake and gotta stand on his own spot when everyone else is stacked nicely.
I shouldn't need to use 2 gcd for medica, when one cure3 is enough for the job, just because of one guy.

Especially when I ask things like "please stack for dimensional shift healing" a few times. Rather than having them die for their foolishness, I just "rescue" them to get them into healing range.

Lets just delete 90% of skills all together because someone could use only few and thus hurting the party by doing so...
Or just delete all boss mechanics and let us only auto attack, this will be fun and balanced game.
Balance is fun when everyone is using same stick at the same time, at the same rate, dealing exact same amount of damage, woohoo.

We want perfect gaem, we want perfect experience 100% of time, we want... oh we already killed fun in the game

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Originally Posted by Horobi

I mostly use it to bring someone into my cure3 range when someone think he's a special snowflake and gotta stand on his own spot when everyone else is stacked nicely.
I shouldn't need to use 2 gcd for medica, when one cure3 is enough for the job, just because of one guy.

Especially when I ask things like "please stack for dimensional shift healing" a few times. Rather than having them die for their foolishness, I just "rescue" them to get them into healing range.

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Tbh at that point you just let them get low and they should get the message that they're not getting healed if they're not close, especially if they're low health and they see heals going out but they're not getting hit by them.

had someone use it on me in e3. It was the moment it goes from Tidal wave into the platform vanishing. They rescue'd me from the middle of the platform to the sides in prep for tidal wave but I was about to hit Surecast. So it goes rescue - surecast - gotta move back to the middle to avoid platform vanishing. I'm now thrown out my rhythm because I wasn't expecting to be yanked to the side by the healer and have to run back to the middle. That's probably the moment I see most aggro from Rescue. I'd say atleast 3 times including my own I've seen people moan about rescues (casters) at that point.