Is E2S overtuned?

I play the "Idgaf about the fight and whatever is going on". I main MCH, ranged dps ignoring mechanics specific positions is my forte. I just can move to stuff without worrying about cast times or melee uptime. Went on E4S only with a bunch of people that made me "join them" We reached 50% (My proper clear is still on E3S waiting for the static to be fair). And yes while E4S might be harder for some classes, I'm still talking about the magnitude of a mistake not the fight per se, all the big mechanics are completely fucked up if even a single person dies in E3S. We are indeed talking about pugging situation and having a whole party not messing up in the party-roulette PF is just a bit hard, with the people having higher level gear than the fight need the DPS check has been more lenient and fight like E1/2S where is a bit hard to wipe your team with your mechanics makes them easier, at least to me, than E3S. E4S being the special case as you can actually wipe someone but its still limited to 2 people, not different from E2S cleaver tbf.

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Originally Posted by Akonyl

I don't think it's really overtuned, but for pugs the Cycles at the end are probably a bit ridiculous with how easily they can impact your dps (and so the clear). It's the hardest mechanic to dodge in the fight and it doesn't show up until the very end, so getting to the point where you can actually practice it feels like it takes forever. Thankfully my static is almost at the point where we can skip the cycles entirely, because I don't want to see them anymore.

Doing a special mechanic at the end of the fight definitely isn't a unique thing to E2S, but I feel like most don't have the same ramp-up in attention required compared to the rest of the fight.

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The combo: In, clock spots, clea... DIE!

That's the killer, people are so busy trying to dodge they cant get clear fast enough and splat. That's why I think adding just 1 more second would see dramatically improved clear rates. They don't even have to tell us they made the stealth change, just sneak it in on 5.1. I know they wont because they think i460 gear should do it... but I can dream.

Maybe 5.2 will have an easier 2nd fight so people can feel like there progressing and not give up hope and quit raiding. E2S killed my static, its killed my family's desire to raid, it's finished me off too. Sucks but... that's the real legacy of E2S.

You have ample time to move out of the way after Doomvoid Cleaver/clock positions if you move as soon as the boss raises her sword since the damage is already locked in at the point.

E2S was just punishing for players that didn’t execute properly (past tense since now gear can make up for it)

And by execute properly I mean people who don’t know their rotations or openers, don’t understand how to keep uptime, can’t do mechanics properly, don’t know how to match their gear and materia, don’t use food, etc..

E1S, like most first floors isn’t meant to filter these players out, the dps check was lax and mechanics relatively easy. So of course 2S is going to be a gate boss for these players. Generally speaking I feel like 3S is usually the gate boss but this tier Levi was very easy.

Given enough time the weaker players will eventually get carried and now when you run your weeklies you’re still stuck with them. I rarely pug but when I do I end up with healers that do no dps, dps that barely pull 8k, etc. And that’s on duty complete(albeit towards the end of the week)

All that to say that it’s tuned properly and serves mostly to block people who need to practice and learn their class better out of the rest of the tier.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

The combo: In, clock spots, clea... DIE!

That's the killer, people are so busy trying to dodge they cant get clear fast enough and splat. That's why I think adding just 1 more second would see dramatically improved clear rates. They don't even have to tell us they made the stealth change, just sneak it in on 5.1. I know they wont because they think i460 gear should do it... but I can dream.

Maybe 5.2 will have an easier 2nd fight so people can feel like there progressing and not give up hope and quit raiding. E2S killed my static, its killed my family's desire to raid, it's finished me off too. Sucks but... that's the real legacy of E2S.

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I would vehemently oppose any such changes. Savage is supposed to demand minimum performance standards. Certain players' inability to meet those standards is not a design flaw.

The clear rates for all four bosses are 42,654/41,178/32,721/24,290 in the past two weeks.
96.5% of people who cleared E1S were able to clear E2S.
79.5% of people who cleared E2S were able to clear E3S.
74.2% of people who cleared E3S were able to clear E4S.

No nerfs are required to improve E2S clear rates because the clear rates don't need improving.

it's not really overtuned, it's just people messing up and getting hit by the disembodied head mobs get a long duration damage down reduces their output almost as much as res sickness.
If it happens a lot, especially while learning you just won't have the damage to finish it.

on the other hand, if your group isn't getting hit by them at all you'll have plenty of time to kill it

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

The combo: In, clock spots, clea... DIE!

That's the killer, people are so busy trying to dodge they cant get clear fast enough and splat. That's why I think adding just 1 more second would see dramatically improved clear rates. They don't even have to tell us they made the stealth change, just sneak it in on 5.1. I know they wont because they think i460 gear should do it... but I can dream.

Maybe 5.2 will have an easier 2nd fight so people can feel like there progressing and not give up hope and quit raiding. E2S killed my static, its killed my family's desire to raid, it's finished me off too. Sucks but... that's the real legacy of E2S.

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I don't mean this in an insulting way but if E2S killed your static your static was really bad to begin with and would have struggled in probably every tier to come.

I haven't cleared ES2 but I think the fight is properly tuned. Anyway, gearing to cover up for skill problems is already a thing in FFXIV.

With the upcoming 5.1 people will be available to update their phantasmagoria gear via 24 man raid and a new weapon is also coming via new extreme trial, so DPS increase is going to be noticeable.

Edit: No shame in needing extra gear to clear certain content.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Edit: No shame in needing extra gear to clear certain content.

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Right. Our static needed ilevel 460 weapons and some E1S/Stonegear too until we were able to clear E2S. It's no biggie if you are still at it, there is still a lot of time left until the next raid-tier will be released.

I'll just post the short version of my opinion.

I think the fight is perfectly fine mechanically but I think the dps check is a little too harsh. I've been in groups that can down 1s in record time but that level of dps isn't nearly enough to get the 2s boss low enough before quietus (even with no damage down debuffs) to get a clear. I think the boss mechanics are fine but it could stand to have it's hp reduced a little. Maybe 5% or so.

U can bait nyxes spawn to make room to dodge more easily during cleaver

I think its ok how it is. Actually is not that hard, you just need to focus and know your rotation (something its supposed to be a basic if u are doing savage)
People clear it first day, myself I clear it on the first week and I dont play on statics, just pugs.
So no, its not overtunef, none of this tier is, they are very well tuned and fun for a first tier raid.

Well,Ranged got it easy in this fight.
Melee, on the other hand, while doing Quetus properly, we also need to gauge our distance for max melee range and dodge all 24 Nyx without dropping our dps and that is the hardest part.

The only issue with E2S is that E1S is so easy that you have a lot of people joining who have no business being in there. If anything, E1S needs to be made more difficult in future tiers to weed out the players who cant even do a rotation.

It's definitely the gatekeeper of this raid tier. It's a cakewalk for ranged dps and a pain in the ass for casters, but what else is new.

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Originally Posted by Kohdo

It's definitely the gatekeeper of this raid tier. It's a cakewalk for ranged dps and a pain in the ass for casters, but what else is new.

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The fight's pretty easy for casters though. Pretty sure it's harder for melee esp ones that relies on positionals

Technically people not clearing have a mechanics issue, not dps.

If your group keeps getting hit by nyx adds, there by giving you a 30% dmg down, it's them not doing mechanics properly.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

The only issue with E2S is that E1S is so easy that you have a lot of people joining who have no business being in there. .

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Found the gatekeeper!

Who are you to say who should or shouldn't be playing content. . .

There was nothing hard about E2s, she is pretty much a punching bag, people not being able to do mechanics is the reason it’s hard to some, cause you can breeze thru Eden prime with a terrible rotation and limit knowledge of mechanics where is E2s required a lot more dps which is correct since there is no transition phase meaning dps never really stops and mechanic failure results in a 30% dmg down which is quite spicy.

I think it's just right. It was rough in the first week or 2, but that's fine. It just meant if you were doing mechanics correctly with one or 2 debuffs but still failing, it was a lack of damage somewhere along the line, most often from healers or a combination across the board.

E3 is probably the easiest 3rd fight we've ever had. Not to downplay it, but it's got nothing on Halicarnassus, Guardian or even Omega who was easier than those 2 imo. Not to mention Alexander. If you can do e2 you can do e3.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

The only issue with E2S is that E1S is so easy that you have a lot of people joining who have no business being in there. If anything, E1S needs to be made more difficult in future tiers to weed out the players who cant even do a rotation.

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The only hard part for melee is doomvoid guillotine, literally everything else is schemed around to be pretty much irrelevant.

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I'd prefer to call the O1S boss by his real FFV name (Jura Aevis) since we got 2 Halicarnassus bosses and 2 Acheron mobs in FFXIV. But that is discussion for another day. #FFnamepreferencesandsemantics

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Ahh, FF5, the masterpiece that gave us Karl Boss and Y Burn.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

Well,Ranged got it easy in this fight.
Melee, on the other hand, while doing Quetus properly, we also need to gauge our distance for max melee range and dodge all 24 Nyx without dropping our dps and that is the hardest part.

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Better to lose a gcd than to get hit by 30% dmg down. This is only an issue for retribution anyways.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Better to lose a gcd than to get hit by 30% dmg down. This is only an issue for retribution anyways.

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Just do as you see fit.If you feel its too risky then break away from the boss is still the best solution.
For retribution, the W or E dps got it easy but I always got S spot for Guillotine ... so after clever, I have to go west spot so I can still attack the boss and dodge incoming Guillotine + Nyx.I think the MT on N spot can do the same by go to East spot where OT is.
Either Chaos or Retribution, There is always a way to attack boss without break away from him(her?) so melee need to master their range as fast as possible to ease the risk of enrage for the grp.