I like to petition against things that don't exist.
This is my petition against Unicorns in FFXIV NO UNICORNS! They ruin my immersion!
Petition against Level Sync
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03-22-2012, 05:02 AMHiirNoivl
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03-22-2012, 05:03 AMWolfiePoint of thread and/or my postQuote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
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Your head -
03-22-2012, 05:05 AMDragonI support this... wait a moment, then I couldn't have any more dragons... ;-;Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
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03-22-2012, 05:08 AMHalvaard_Vidan
1 - 50 is already easy, IF you can find parties.
On Besaid I see shouts for parties that take forever to fill up. I'd rather have Level Sync and make a party of a specific level (having every one at the same level DOES make partying smoother), than sit around for hours hoping a shout comes up or that someone actually looks at my Seeking Party comments. -
03-22-2012, 05:13 AMWolfieHow about this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvaard_Vidan
1. Things you can do solo while waiting for a party, so you don't have to sit in Ul'dah an shout.
2. Autogroup, so you can do those solo things while you're waiting and not miss out.
3. New characters don't cost $3/month; they're free instead.
Bam, no more need for level sync and no more possible level sync exploitation. -
03-22-2012, 06:11 AMOrophinI think they should go a step further and roll him back to the beta version of the game while we move on. Then he can experience the game in all of its tedious glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antanias
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03-22-2012, 06:31 AMAntaniasI like the way you think :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
My apologies, how about a plate of cookies instead? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
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03-22-2012, 06:45 AMJakeRoonSure I guess if you call a features that has been around for more than a decade a "new" thing. I would point out that most mmorpgs in the past 10 years or more have some form of Powerleveling and a good chunk have level syncing. (or instanced difficulty that auto adjust to the strength of the current party)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna
Okay Rok I appreciate you answer and clarity.
I suppose I could go to every thread that someone has about making the game actually casually playable friendly and quote you on how you are against every feature that makes things more convenient, but I am to lazy to do so, and you now what I am referring to: anima debates and all.
But on the topic of level sync....I can only repeat how it's a convenient feature for those of us who don't mind repeating areas, or actually enjoy returning to them and level there for nostagia, or like to help our lower level friends, or want to play with our higher level friends.
If I grasp your argument correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong) but it is your fear that player would opt to not go to the higher content in lue of just level syncing to old content because it's easier? (like we somewhat experienced in ffxi) Thus "forcing" those who wanted to "not follow the crowd" to "follow the crowd" .
Well my retort is once again, as it is in reponse to most of your ideas and thread comments (and many others response to your comments also) : No one is forcing you to use these features. If you want to level in other areas form a party of like minded ppl and do so. If you can't find like minded ppl that is because they PREFER to do it the other way.
Honestly I enjoyed leveling in some of the lower camps when level syncing I found we got to go to MORE places than we did without it, as we could use our level 50's to easily get to good level 20 camps that we never got to see..... because all anyone ever wanted to level on before the level sync addition was CRABS. 75 levels of crabs...that's exciting.
I am rambling, as usual, but the point is.....giving ppl choices is never a bad thing...if you don;t like one way, the other way is still availible to you. Don't lobby to remove choices and force ppl to play the way YOU would prefer to. Giving ppl the options to play the game several ways is a good compromise to get many types of players to enjoy the game in their own way. -
03-22-2012, 06:46 AMLittleBraver
I swear you purposely post the opposite of what 90% of the population are in favor for. Is this an attention thing? I don't get it.
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03-22-2012, 06:47 AMAndrien
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03-22-2012, 06:59 AMDragonAre these cookies full of meat mew!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Antanias
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03-22-2012, 07:03 AMFiron
The thing is level sync will work better in this game than xi. If you are a lvl 42 MRD or what ever Why would you want the slow ass exp of an lvl 27 pt cause exp gained per fight is based on lvls. So if you decided to have an lvl 27 pt instead of an 42 woud Lvl much slower than if you had an pt in your correct lvl range.
I think @ 20-3o exp is caped @ like 600 max or something, and 31-39 is like is like 900 max, and 40-50 is like 2k max you can get per kill with full link/chain bonus. -
03-22-2012, 07:04 AMAntaniasYup, meaty goodness :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
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03-22-2012, 07:09 AMDragonGood! *swaps the cookies into mouth real quick*Quote:
Originally Posted by Antanias
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YUM! Gimme moar or else... *sharpens claws* -
03-22-2012, 07:10 AMAntanias<--hands over all the meat cookies he has :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
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03-22-2012, 07:14 AMDragon*cutesy eye look* Now, how's about some milk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Antanias
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03-22-2012, 07:27 AMKeith_Dragoon
@OP: I would choose the 4/8 cause most classes aren't fun that low and you would not have access to jobs.
As for the XI thing, leveling in those areas only became popular because you got the most xp/hr at those camps unlike in this game 40+ has the best xp/hr you'll find in this game. Also in XI your skills were gimped due to level syncing below your level, that problem does not apply to XIV.
All in all level sync would better fit in XIV then it did in XI and I hope they add it.
You suggest we not do anything and sit on our hands until fall/winter 2012 in hopes of people coming to the game and doing stuff with them when people now are trying to do stuff with friends currently playing who are too low or too high to actually play together? THAT sounds fun... >.> -
03-22-2012, 07:28 AMAntaniasI'll give ya the unopened jug, gonna have to get more anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
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03-22-2012, 07:31 AMRiaayo
Level Sync never again.
The concept was awesome and if it worked to only allow people to party with their friends, it would be great... but that is not what happens.
If you are 50 in all classes why do you need to level sync to help your friends? You can power level them. If you're against it? Tell them why and don't do it. Power leveling as it is now actually fills the level sync hole, allowing a high lvl friend to help lower level players and actually accelerate their party even more. As the power level it's up to you if you blast the mob for them completely or give them a small amount of assistance. People need to quit acting like they have no choices in this game but to take the easiest route... I bet most people on here only tanked Ifrit with a Marauder or Gladiator and never attempted maybe a Pugalist or Conjurer (they worked, by the way).
This is the same basic MMO bs where people take the path of least resistance but if they don't like said path they complain about it to get it changed... because in the end they want the fastest exp but only in the form or fashion THEY want it to exist.
Higher levels can currently help low level friends in 14, same as 11 with lvl sync just a different system. So if the end result is basically the same why are you all so caught up on the means when it's barely different? You're either going to PL and maybe somebody gets 50 being lazy, or you're going to lvl sync and somebody's going to get 50 having never touched an ability over 30 or 40 and be stupid that way. Or, people can just level however they want, be elitist and snobby if they desire or lazy. I can guarantee you it only takes a few parties for a bad player's rep to precede them, and at that point the entire problem of a bad 50 is more or less remedied until they shape up.
But do you know what will happen if lvl sync coems to this game? It won't give people low to mid lvl parties. It will end up with a high lvl group throwing on a bunch of spiritbond gear, syncing down to extremely low level and grabbing several high lvl blm members to power-level spew them through low lvl mobs at a ridiculous rate to bind gear. You remember summoner burn? Or all the 1-75 dunes parties? Ronfaure S? List of how Level Sync got abused is much higher than the list of things it helped, despite its good intentions. It is a system that never needs to come back. -
03-22-2012, 07:59 AMDenverMax
level sync should be a choice. In ffxi it was impossible to level with someone 4 levels higher or lower. In ffxiv, i see that this is not the case, and i have really enjoyed the perks of leveling with people in party's. So if it were a choice then that wouldn't be so bad. But choice does sort of defeat the purpose of a level sync lol.
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03-22-2012, 08:13 AMKatella_Avenlea
TL;DR version: Options are good, and in honest truth people will play how they play regardless of your opinion, you can't control every aspect, nor should every aspect of this game cater to one kind of player... Level-sync offers benefits that are needed to encourage party play, and aspects that keep people social where they might otherwise spend all their time soloing or being power leveled and miss out on the journey.
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What I don’t understand is why some are so adamant on not allowing players to have options? I just don’t get it. Why are people so opinionated on how others play their characters? It’s like so many things, if you don’t want to participate in something, then don’t. No one is forcing you to. At the same time, just because you don’t “like” a feature that you swear is useless, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t add to someone else’s experience. I personally don’t like PVP at all, but I’d never “petition” that it should not be implemented just because its not my cup of tea. Calm down a bit… seriously.
The wider variety of player base we can keep, the better off we will be and the more likely we will continue getting new and varied content added to our game.
Those that are truthful know that its not features (like level-sync) that ruins games, its attitudes, and our own attitudes are the most damaging to our own experiences. Its an unavoidable fact.
Level-sync is an actual legitimate way of bridging a gap and unlocking more opportunities for people to be able to enjoy their time together actually actively partying. If you view it as a waste of your time, then don’t participate, but I will gladly welcome the chance to spend part of my time adventuring with friends and helping them level in a way that helps them improve their skills rather than just handing them levels. My friends are not a waste of my time, they are the best part of my journey and my own adventure. I guess that is why Level-sync doesn’t scare me. I’m unsure why level-sync is viewed by some as more damaging than the current PL system is. I’m truly at a loss, but I can just agree to disagree on that point.. To each their own..
The OP acts as if when/if its instituted, that you will not be able to find anyone to party with at regular levels. I truly don’t believe that is the case. I played FFXI for a couple years after Level-sync came out and I honestly never experienced any issue finding parties willing to party at regular level. Whoever you are, there will likely be like minded players, and with the addition of content finder, it will be even that much easier to find people wanting to do the higher level content. That’s where everything new and exciting will be, so that will be what draws the most attention.
Another poster complained:
“Level syncs are good in theory, but then you get stupid people who do the same things they do in every game where they start using it as a way to power level without ever leaving the lower areas and so on and so forth. - TheVedis”
“Stupid people” as you term them are always going to exist dear.. if staying in low level areas is where they like to reside and spend all their time, then how does it affect you if you are playing higher level zones? Why do people think they need to have reigns on how others play?
In reality, people probably will "abuse it" much like how people "abuse" the ability to powerlevel in this game. End of the story is though that just because some do, doesn't mean everyone will, or that everyone else has to.
Something that keeps getting overlooked is that this game is being made with the intention of providing enjoyment to both casual and “hardcore” players.
Before anyone makes a comment about it not being “Tanaka’s game” anymore, I’ll use the echo to remind us of something:
Letter from the Producer XX (10/14/2011)
“I believe that as a major MMORPG title, rather than as a FINAL FANTASY title, FFXIV needs to be three things—global, widely accommodating, and secure.”
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“What I want to make is a theme park where both casuals and hard-cores can exist and play together. That’s the minimum requirement I think a modern MMORPG should fulfill.”
~ Yoshi-P -
03-22-2012, 08:36 AMAndrien
I agree with you Katella_Avenlea.
Sadly some people will turn a blind eye when it comes to irrefutable factual logic. -
03-22-2012, 08:41 AMColinoYes, yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBraver
Or at least I'm starting to think so. It also seems to be working though so more power to him! -
03-22-2012, 08:44 AMEijii
Level sync yes plz.... it's hard to get parties at mid lvl or make them.. so why not just join a low lvl party that s shouting...get your levels and be happy... seriously with all due respect the OP is an idiot....
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03-22-2012, 08:46 AMAreeyaJaidee
I say yes to lvl sync. Helps new and old players :3
Very good game mechanic. -
03-22-2012, 08:57 AMJynx
I'd rather level synch than power-leveling.
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03-22-2012, 09:07 AMColinoI'd rather both so people can play however they want and maybe stop crying all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
But if we couldn't have both I would agree with you. -
03-22-2012, 09:10 AMCoDeWaWithout skill levels, it actually makes more sense to have level sync in FF14 than it does in FF11. If you don't want to fight in low level areas find some people that agree with you and get at it. Let people that want to level certain jobs with their friends do so. Otherwise you end up like most other mmos where your friends are leveling their level 15 character while your on your 45 trying to cap, and that kind of takes away from the point of playing an mmo. But don't worry, when it is implemented you won't be forced to level sync and the people that want to will be able to. So everyone wins! YAY! Rokien happy now! LUB LUB LUB!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
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03-22-2012, 09:18 AMLevian
Don't think for one second you could've escaped the Ronfuare level synch parties by refusing to use the level synch option. Once people found out about it (and similar level synch exploits) all other forms of XP vanished. Just like getting party in one of the old conquest areas together after the release of TOAU. I tried to take a party to Lufaise meadows for some fly action for nostalgia's sake. I want to say it was a level 70-ish group. Anyway, the Ninja couldn't get in because he hadn't touched the CoP content. We got brave and switched gears, decided to try Xarcabard for some demons. Oh God talk about a mistake. Within 6 months TOAU had done it's damage, only half the party had sneak and invis, and they were also the only ones that could perform simple tasks like following the leader and not aggroing everything in sight. Catastrophic failure doesn't even begin to describe it.
If you turned your back on conquest areas for toau zones and never looked back, and did the same thing with wotg and level synch you probably don't realize how those of us that liked the challenge of conquering the old RoZ/CoP zones felt when we'd walk through King Ranperre's tomb and not find a single party killing the insanely easy bats that lie down there. Cape Terrigan and Bibiki Bay devoid of life, no one going to East/Western Altepa because no one could be bothered to make the trek to pick up the apropriate teleport crystal. Too hard. Not worth the effort. Talking to an old friend of the good times, reminiscing about skill chains and magic bursts and hearing a TOAU baby utter the phrase, "I don't like doing SC, it's too hard." In the span of 2 patches our game was ripped from under us, gutted and turned into an empty husk of it's former self, even though the option to play the way we used to still exists to this day. Why?
Point blank, the vast majority of people are going to take the path of least resistance. We were even doing it before CoP and didn't even realize it. And once an easier way was found, people abandoned the more challenging routes. Sure there were some of us that pined for the glory days, and once in a while you could get a group to try something old school. But as time went by that section of the population got smaller and smaller, whether it was because we didn't like the new things and quit or because we got tired of trying to go against the grain and were forced to flow with the tide. Just try it if you don't believe me, reactivate your FFXI account or if you can't start a new one and just TRY leveling the way it was done before level synch, colibri in TOAU and Ronfuare (S), Field of Valor missions, and now Abbyssea which has even taken away ALL of that or so I've heard. You won't get passed level 10.
All that being said, Firon is probably right. The reason level synch destroyed FFXI was because from lvl 1 through 75 the xp cap was 200 a kill (before chains). Most groups up to 55-ish didn't see more than a chain 5, which was easily obtainable on worms. Which meant you could get the same XP/hr @ qufim as you could in any other zone with less risk and less travel time until you hit the TOAU areas with warps straight to the XP camps and 100+ chain counts. And once you got to the TOAU areas, it was Colibri until you were so sick of pink things just seeing the color would make you want to stab a kitten and kick a puppy. But in a game where xp/hr varies per level isntead of being unilaterally capped across the board until nearly end game it should be less of an issue. The fact that it destroyed one game doesn't mean that I think the idea can't work, though I will say I don't think it should've been so beneficial to the people synching down 20 levels.
Wow, that post turned out a LOT longer than I wanted it to. -
03-22-2012, 09:48 AMDargoth_DraconiaI get where you are coming from but honestly majority of the time it is like two parties are 4/8 and you just can't get a group together. I rather get a group and exp on mobs I killed before than to sit in town for an hour shouting about a party and get 0 exp. Level sync is actually coming (confirmed) and majority of the people are for it than against it. Need proof? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post531699Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
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03-22-2012, 09:55 AMLevianThis is just me playing devil's advocate at this point, but I wanted to point out that nothing is set in stone until 2.0 goes live. Though to his credit, so far everything on Yoshi P's agenda has been delivered as promised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia
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03-22-2012, 11:33 AMKailok
Honestly, the ability to play with my friends is way more appealing to me than leveling in lower areas because it's faster. I'm not using Level Sync to level my high class/job, I'm using it to spend time with a friend. Now, I know that doesn't go the same with all players, so yes it will need to be fixed, but in no way should we even chance not having it simply because someone doesn't want a group of people leveling in this area instead of that area.
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03-22-2012, 11:59 AMCaptaindownsyndrome
im staring to think Rokien is the true face of gifthorse
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03-22-2012, 12:26 PMLevianHere's the thing though, it wasn't a case of this area vs that area, it was a case of these 4, and only these 4 areas, forever and ever amen. Some people (former FFXI players that played up through WotG) have been burned by level synch. So you should be able to see why some would approach with trepidation, and even disdain. Square Enix's history with levels and synching isn't all puppies and rainbows. If they can figure out how to implement it so that it doesn't channel the leveling grind into a small handful of areas, I'm all for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kailok
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03-22-2012, 12:31 PMKaplanHomahru
I disagree with you OP, I think level sync would be a nice addition. I also think you are stupid for assuming 2 people on the same server will have the EXACT SAME experiences when trying to level up. The whole 'I had no problems, so you shouldn't either' line was a bit ridiculous.
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03-22-2012, 12:36 PMChiefCurraheeJoin the level 45+ PT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokien
You are a level 39 War and two parties are shouting. one is a level 25 PT, the other is a 45+ PT. The lv 25 party is 7/8, the 45 one you can't join. What will you do?
Do you really wanna not-level your levels? -
03-22-2012, 01:40 PMDargoth_DraconiaAlso to go along with area vs that area things are going to change in 2.0. We are going to have zones with more diversity and hopefully a ton of zones. Hopefully multiple same level gap zones as well to add diversity that conduces party play for all level ranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
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03-22-2012, 02:05 PMResheph
There just aren't even enough levels between 1 and 50 to even warrant a system like level sync. Do we need something more than Leves vs PL? Yes. Level sync maybe isn't the best solution.
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03-22-2012, 02:15 PMChardrizardGiftforce was more intelligent. While he doesnt like many ideas of FFXIV, he came with logical reasoning, not just "Oh well, i dont like it, so it should go away"Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaindownsyndrome
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03-22-2012, 02:36 PMDragonYou are completely full of shit. I refused level sync all the time, and other people I know did also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
Maybe on your server, but of all the servers I've been to (Fairy, Sylph, Remora, Diabolos, and Phoenix), XP was just fine. Level Sync was nowhere near as abused as some here claim it to be, and most people eventually learned that Lv.Sync wasn't necessarily the best option outside of certain ranges.Quote:
Once people found out about it (and similar level synch exploits) all other forms of XP vanished. Just like getting party in one of the old conquest areas together after the release of TOAU.
Now you're blaming Level Sync for the problems that may have possibly been at the fault of an expansion pack, and I say possibly because ToAU didn't start until you were Lv.55, which clearly gave plenty of time for people to learn about RoZ/CoP zones.Quote:
I tried to take a party to Lufaise meadows for some fly action for nostalgia's sake. I want to say it was a level 70-ish group. Anyway, the Ninja couldn't get in because he hadn't touched the CoP content. We got brave and switched gears, decided to try Xarcabard for some demons. Oh God talk about a mistake. Within 6 months TOAU had done it's damage, only half the party had sneak and invis, and they were also the only ones that could perform simple tasks like following the leader and not aggroing everything in sight. Catastrophic failure doesn't even begin to describe it.
Oh please. FFXI was never gutted until Abyssea.Quote:
If you turned your back on conquest areas for toau zones and never looked back, and did the same thing with wotg and level synch you probably don't realize how those of us that liked the challenge of conquering the old RoZ/CoP zones felt when we'd walk through King Ranperre's tomb and not find a single party killing the insanely easy bats that lie down there. Cape Terrigan and Bibiki Bay devoid of life, no one going to East/Western Altepa because no one could be bothered to make the trek to pick up the apropriate teleport crystal. Too hard. Not worth the effort. Talking to an old friend of the good times, reminiscing about skill chains and magic bursts and hearing a TOAU baby utter the phrase, "I don't like doing SC, it's too hard." In the span of 2 patches our game was ripped from under us, gutted and turned into an empty husk of it's former self, even though the option to play the way we used to still exists to this day. Why?
FFXI was saved by Level Sync as it actually allowed veterans to play with newbies. ToAU actually saved FFXI by making melees more important than just mere sacrifices for the BLM bursts. WotG made the game interesting by introducing conquest and making older zones reusable. And all of these had certain level requirements (save for Lv.Sync, which still had a silent requirement), Abyssea was the only thing that didn't, and it'd have been fine if there were a high-level requirement for it.Quote:
Point blank, the vast majority of people are going to take the path of least resistance. We were even doing it before CoP and didn't even realize it. And once an easier way was found, people abandoned the more challenging routes. Sure there were some of us that pined for the glory days, and once in a while you could get a group to try something old school. But as time went by that section of the population got smaller and smaller, whether it was because we didn't like the new things and quit or because we got tired of trying to go against the grain and were forced to flow with the tide. Just try it if you don't believe me, reactivate your FFXI account or if you can't start a new one and just TRY leveling the way it was done before level synch, colibri in TOAU and Ronfuare (S), Field of Valor missions, and now Abbyssea which has even taken away ALL of that or so I've heard. You won't get passed level 10.
All that being said, Firon is probably right. The reason level synch destroyed FFXI was because from lvl 1 through 75 the xp cap was 200 a kill (before chains). Most groups up to 55-ish didn't see more than a chain 5, which was easily obtainable on worms. Which meant you could get the same XP/hr @ qufim as you could in any other zone with less risk and less travel time until you hit the TOAU areas with warps straight to the XP camps and 100+ chain counts. And once you got to the TOAU areas, it was Colibri until you were so sick of pink things just seeing the color would make you want to stab a kitten and kick a puppy. But in a game where xp/hr varies per level isntead of being unilaterally capped across the board until nearly end game it should be less of an issue. The fact that it destroyed one game doesn't mean that I think the idea can't work, though I will say I don't think it should've been so beneficial to the people synching down 20 levels.
Wow, that post turned out a LOT longer than I wanted it to.
P.S. ToAU was all about colibri? How about how pre-ToAU endgame grinding was all about... skeletons and requiring BLMs to be in every party for manabursts while melee DPS were just sacrificial meat?