Machinist latency issues need recognition akin to Ninja

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

So, levelling MCH from 70 to 71, there was something off feeling about the class, but couldn't really put my finger on it.
Took MCH into a Trust dungeon, and it became pretty clear. It's built for people with ping times WAY higher than mine.
And whoever keeps trying to put "weave OGCD into high speed GCDs" needs to move to Australia to realise just how awful they're making life for me.

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I think you might have meant "for people with ping times WAY lower than mine" since you want low ping response times. But yeah basically, it really sucks because MCH is still the job I'm the most passionate about in the game despite not playing it since ShB released due to my inability to achieve the required latency I would need to play it optimally and not clip myself into oblivion.

Now I'm in a weird spot where I cant get that enthusiastic about anything in terms of new fight releases because no matter how good the fight design is I know I wont be playing the job I want to be playing.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

The problem is it’s double edged knife.

This isn’t a advocation towards keeping or deleting these things.

But do you really believe slowing down the combat system is the right move? Would you enjoy this game still if it dropped 10+ CPM per job to trade in a static 2.5gcd gameplay.

Just imagine playing WoW on a 2.5gcd, would you log on every day and enjoy the gameplay?

Imma say a lot of people will say no to this, why? Because the reason most say pre 50 sucks for a lot of jobs is because it does feel like your playing WoW on a 2.5gcd to begin with.

Just because a solution is there doesn’t always mean it’s going fix something. If they get 100.000 complaints today, but 250,000 complaints after the change, the change was bad.


Are 20CPM jobs going to please a majority or be considered reasonable to be applied to fix this issue? No it won’t. It would piss off a lot of people.

The hint of putting mudras on a GCD has not gone well at all, have u not read all the thread? Theirs several there saying it’s not the fixs the job needs and pushing against it.

Looking at changes in a vacuum doesn’t determine the end you do also have to consider the negative impacts these changes would make

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Ninja feel so slow, its actually frustratingly slow to play because the playstyle of weaving in your ninjutsu's has been removed for latency and accessibility due to the Ninjutsu oGCD to GCD change. The change to shadowfang simplified the combo to the point where it feels vestigial (a 30 second debuff that is on CD for 70 seconds, it turned the upkeep of the ability into a Fire and Forget move). Having to COMPLETELY stop to WAIT for a GCD to throw a quick ninjutsu (Nin shuriken doesn't see use anymore outside of ten chi jin, im not gonna really use it in the world since i dont have to be that close to Raiton as a opener before i draw aggro) Had reduced the class to a Trick Attack Bot where the fun only starts with Trick attack and remains only as long as its active, once its done, back to 1-2-3 with a 4 thrown in there every 70 seconds.

Tossing a ninjutsu in now feel extremely clunky since it no longer flows in with the abilities as i have to proactively switch between doing my regular abilities and then doing ninjutsu rather then incorporating ninjutsu into the normal rotation. Since my regular abilities have no interaction with my ninjutsu, Ninjutsu moreso becomes a afterthought until T/A comes up. Some of the changes were great! The 2 charges for ninjutsu i loved, the Ten-Chi-Jin changes were a big plus. However in terms of the classes enjoyment, it took 2 steps forward and 3 back. The class is far less enjoyable then what it was for 3 expansion despite it hitting harder, ninja is the only class ive enjoyed as much as i do in all my MMO years, and since its the only class i play, another hit to the class like this for me is a subscription ender...

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Originally Posted by Brinn

I really really hope they do something about this. I have mained MCH since around 4.3 and i'm seriously thinking about dropping it because of this issue. I heard that dark knight is really easy to double weave now so maybe it is something just to do with the animation locks. It breaks my heart to think about leaving it after I stuck with it for this long.

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Dark Knight is just ridiculously easy all around now which leads to boredom sadly.

Honestly, I think the solution to the latency issue that would keep the class the same the most would be a combination of Heat Blast (and Auto Crossbow too for consistency) getting 5 charges when you activate Hypercharge that go away when Hypercharge is over and extending Hypercharge's time by 1 second. This would essentially just give everyone an extra second to input their 5 Heat Blasts. The reason for the charges is so that the new expectation doesn't become 6 Heat Blasts which wouldn't fix the issue. The issue being evening out the playing field for those who have high and low ping to a reasonable degree. Having a lower ping will always make things feel more smooth, but it shouldn't be such a major factor to result in losing potency from not being able to do optimal combos in overly tight windows of time. Going from 8 seconds to 9 should fix the issue and make inputting optimal Wildfire combos consistently possible for players regardless of ping.

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Originally Posted by Yandere-chan

Honestly, I think the solution to the latency issue that would keep the class the same the most would be a combination of Heat Blast (and Auto Crossbow too for consistency) getting 5 charges when you activate Hypercharge...

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This is a really good idea

Hey Yoshi-P! I found some of the feedback you lost about MCH ping issues. Don't worry I got you!

TBH it can't even be considered as necromancing threads.

This feedback from 2019 is still relevant in 2022...

The problems are the same, yet new tools have popped up and hardly a day goes by without recommending VPNs, NoClippy or XIVAlex to someone wanting to pick the job up. At this point we should be sponsored by Mudfish for all times we've recommended it.

Let's be real, if someone is dedicated enough, you could absolutely find one of these threads from 2017 too from the SB MCH Rework. New expansion, same exact problems.

Ping issues have plagued the job even since when rapid fire was a thing. Nonetheless, it's sad to see not even an acknowledgement after all these years. I was the one to ask yoship the question about ping for MCH during Fanfest, or at least a very similar question was asked as both the question and myself live in the same area that was mentioned. A huge post was made about this and how some players with very high ping are forced to use a 3rd party tool to be able to play the job on equal ground. To say ping was never brought up as feedback on forums is jarring as its been mentioned several times, even to Yoship directly by MrHappy.

It's not like there isn't evidence either. I play on NA from time to time and 140 ping under a VPN still doesn't achieve much stability. It isn't an ISP problem, it isn't our internet at a given point. It's constant. It'll allow for double-weaving with a minor clip here and there, at best, and the absolute circus that is using Hypercharge at anything over 100 ping at worst. At the very least they could give us further charges of Gauss + Ricochet so that overcapping never happens, if they really insist on us not weaving during Hypercharge at higher ping, which is what it feels like they think would be acceptable if it means less complaints about ping reliance. I refuse to believe they don't realise there's an issue, but it's more PR responses to sweep it under the rug.

I feel like fixing the underlying issue with ping mitigation would be a lot cheaper to do in the end than building datacenters all over the place just to give people better ping. There has been talk about how the game handles animation locks and it really just seems like the base implementation is faulty, but since JP has pretty good internet for the most part, it's hard for the developers to notice problems with it.

Well, with server expansions on the way, it seems there'd be no plans to address that on the networking side, so I presume any solution via that method would be out the window. Sadly.

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Originally Posted by Serenaya

Well, with server expansions on the way, it seems there'd be no plans to address that on the networking side, so I presume any solution via that method would be out the window. Sadly.

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Server expansion is not a solution.
You have players living far from the servers in US. You have south America players.
And finally you have players with a terrible internet connection, something out of their control because the internet company didn't brough enough cable length and they may return in a year or two.

For example in Franche, 70% of the population has access to high internet connection. But 30% remains a lot.

For a long time I had to play the game on wireless and I could not play MCH properly without a VPN improving the connection.

I can't play it despite playing on EU and living in the UK, without a VPN. I have 30 ping without and 20-25 when using one. Ping jitter due to routing (it isn't my internet) causes minor clips here and there which are removed with a stable connection via VPN. Guess that's why FFXIV creators are such a good market for ExitLag/NoPing, since there's such high demand for it due to the ping unfriendliness of a number of jobs.

Still not fixed.

Here's a compilation of some possible fixes:
- Change Hypercharge and Heat Blast into a charge system
- Make Heat Blast available outside of Hypercharge at lower potency and without cooldown reduction effect.
- Reduce the effect of cooldown reduction to 10s or less (down from 15s).
- Increase the maximum charges of Gauss Round and Ricochet to 4 (up from 3).
- Increase the recast time of Gauss Round and Ricochet to 40s (up from 30s).
- Increase Heat Blast gcd to 2.0s or to an even slower speed (up from 1.5s).
- Increase Hypercharge duration to 9 seconds (up from 8s).
- Lower the animation locks on Heat Blast, Gauss Round and Ricochet to well below standard levels.