Big numbers are a part of it, but dps roles are also the most diverse in terms of playstyle and have the least responsibility attached. (I mean they did just homogenize healing in 5.0)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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08-08-2019, 10:18 AMDogempire
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08-08-2019, 10:38 AMKaliesto
Overworld and dungeon monsters suffer alot by having their special attacks being very slow to execute, and so the player just simply avoids it completely, and because of this it is pointless to give these monsters special abilities if it is that incredibly slow to activate. If the developers are willing to do timer adjustments that it would give a big quality of life changes to the normal creatures.
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08-08-2019, 12:20 PMLunaviIf you think DPS roles have the least responsibility you have likely never played any content in this game with a DPS check. I mean, I could get your point in a dungeon, but even in a dungeon I would argue that a DPS has more responsibility than a Tank as the question in a dungeon isn't if you will make it or not, but how quickly you will make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
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08-09-2019, 12:29 AMPentheaSo what you're saying is "aside from their unique mechanics they're exactly the same". Right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
And this is what I mean by how it's funny that some people don't realise that jobs in the same role need things in common for the sake of practicality. Every healer needs to have these basic abilities in common so that they can all tackle the basic requirements of healing. Big heal, small heal, aoe heal, ogcd panic buttons...they're the bread and butter every healer needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
You can complain that the basic healer kits are similar but using only that won't get you through the game. You need to know how to use each job's unique mechanics and how to use it with the basic kit to be at least decent with the class. How the job's unique mechanics interact with the other spells isn't the same on all the healers. Playing a whm won't teach you how to use ast cards or aetherflow. Anyone who plays healers in a super homogenised manner is doing it wrong, because doing so means ignoring the unique job mechanics.
All healers have things in common but this should be expected given that they are in the same role. Complaining about this is like complaining about how all rock bands have drummers and guitarists.
Sch's old dps kit was a byproduct of sharing the same base class as a dps job. Sch was a healer job with the basic kit of a dps job. Literally no other job in the game had the luxury of having both their basic kit for their role and the basic kit of another role. This needed to change not for the sake of homogeneity, but for balance. It was too strong. I'm not saying I'm a fan of exactly how the changes were done but I can see why the decision was made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
But I guess it's easier to shout out buzz-words like "homogenisation" than to actually think about the situation properly. -
08-09-2019, 01:08 AMValkyrie_LennethPretty much. Everyone was harping on whm for having no utility and no dps, while sch had the best utility and the best dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
That was fixed, and now people complain about job identity and homogenization. -
08-09-2019, 03:05 AMMelichoirImma jump in here immediately and ask: Have you cleared all teh EX or Savage modes? Im not arguing that things arent easier than they were in ARR, but my feathers get a bit ruffled when I see threads like these saying the game needs to be harder from people who havent even attempted or cleared harder content. I know youve been parsed because I can check that information, and Im not seeing clears. This is by no means shaming you for participating or not participating in content. Play the game the way you want; Im all cool wiht that. But saying the game is easy when youre not participating in the harder content just gobsmacks me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
This point has been discussed ad nauseum on the forums. Yes, there were people who 'played' all the cards, but in the higher tier and more diffcult play, it was Fish for Balance, Arrow and Spear were Fine, Ewer just to maintain MP, and dump the rest when possible. Of the 8 cards, only 3 were real choices, 1 being more situational, and the others being to situational. When it comes to raiding and Extreme content, people Min/Max, and that meant dumping cards like the TP regen or Bol because they were heavily situational and were not suited for the raid environment. They streamlined the system so on the average, every card has viability, compared to what it was before - an abstract buff system where you had a 1 in 8 chance to get an OP buff, and a 1/4 chance of getting a decent buff where the rest were situational. Cards or not, thats what the system boiled down to in the end. A RNG buff system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
In many ways were a lot more hybridized now than any previous xpac. Many tanks have Shielding/AoE Mitigation now, DNC and SMN both have some support utility as part of their builds. Now Im all for variety, but that has to be done carefully. Just demanding a raw hybrid is extremely if not done carefully because they either end up being master of nothing and suboptimal, or they become OP. This is why we dont see to many hybrid roles in general. Balancing them is not a simple thing to do. The devs had trouble balancing tanks and healers, as an example, and had to strip down or build up classes to get them more in line when it comes to output. It's not always ideal, and it sometimes does end up in homogenization, but I think theres better things the devs to work on than creating 'hybrid' classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
This is some kernal of truth to this amid the hyperbole. As far as I know, you cant solo S ranks. Theyll kill you 9/10 times. So yeah, there are 'more powerful monsters' that can kill you. The thing with open world content is how its played. As is, most people avoid unnecessary combat unless theyre grinding. Most people B-Line from point A to B for quests and do not stop for random monsters. In fact, Id hazard most people find fighting open world monsters annoying simply because theyre speed bumps rather than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
Yes having some dangerous areas in the game would liven it up, but youd have to give purpose to having those areas. Which would probably mean changes people wont be on board with. Things such as...
-You cannot start gathering aether currents till your max level as to prevent flying over a zone easily.
-Not being able to be flown places unless youve unlocked flying yourself.
-Monster variety has to increase. There has to be heavy hitting large monsters as well as 'mob style' monsters who move in packs - super squishy individually but will overwelm you quickly if not careful.
-Monster dispersion in consideration of iLvL - Meaning there will be monsters that effectively need you to be ilvl 530 to kill by yourself, creating a situation where by the end of hte xpac you have 'grown in power' that even those at -the start finally are not a big threat.
-Monsters that dole out status effects like candy on Halloween
-Monsters that can dismount
-Necessity to traverse through areas with no 'road'
-Increase monster experience gained
-Monsters drop useful stuff that that killing them when going from point A to B in a quest has meaning. Monster hunting dropping mats needed by crafters in a way that is significant that they be hunted or grinded.
-Hunt logs that go to 80 that get progressively more difficult to do.
These are only a handful of changes that would incorporate this. If you want a dangerous world, you have to revamp how world content is done. Youll probably notice that this stuff wouldnt be popular though. As I said, people tend to avoid open world combat in general.
There is a simpler way to make the world feel more dangerous though: Open World PvP. Very mixed feelings on how viable this would be but yes, that would definitely give you the danger factor, cause nothing spells fear like trying to level while watching the skies for the rando who wants to murder you for fun.
No real comment on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
This is kind of a flippant point cause youre boiling everything down to "they all dps so what's the difference?" If you want to talk this point, then this can be applied to ARR till now. Afterall, BLM and Monk are they same thing because they both 'do dps'. Surprisingly there are actual playstyle differences. Some classes are more engaging. They all do dps, but how they do it varies. Im not sure what kind of variety youre looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat
The reason the trinity works is because its fairly optimal in the RPG format. Classes that absorb damage effectively, Classes that deal damage effectively, and classes that support the other two. Thats Tank, DPS, and Healer in a nutshell. If you want more Hybrid systems, thats gonna change the game dynamic in a way that it is not currently set up for. Not that it cant be done, but rather if the shift was made, itd be almost like making an xpac or a remake at that point. The change would not be subtle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat