Gunbreaker: thoughts and suggestions

Aurora is not weak, its a healing dot with 1200 potency total, with exact same cd as warrior heal and could be casted on any party member you want. This makes it a ton better than war or drk equivalent heal.

Aurora does have the benifit of being cast on others to smooth out damage income throughout a fight but, it's not nearly as impactful. Equilibrium and Clemency being a full 1200 burst can recover a lot of dicey situations, even if Equilibrium is self cast only and Clemency gas a cast time. I agree that Abyssal Drain is undertuned though.

Generally in games HoTs are more potent than direct heals as they take longer to reach the same potency and don't have the safety that comes with an immediate heal.

Its true but you have to take into consideration other aspects of the job. It has one of the highest dps right now and 4 cost free support abilities (brutal shell shield).

Haven't had a laugh like that in some time, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Aurora is not weak, its a healing dot with 1200 potency total, with exact same cd as warrior heal and could be casted on any party member you want. This makes it a ton better than war or drk equivalent heal.

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Originally Posted by Divinewindx

Haven't had a laugh like that in some time, thanks!

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It ticks 200 potency heal x6 once per 3 sec, its healing the same amount as equilibrium.
It could be used on a party member, therefore its better.
Not my fault you dont know the job you are playing.

It’s certainly better than Abyssal Drain, which is poo on single target.

In FFlogs are Gunbreakers listed, they melted skill peed... iam no up to date about materia. My last knowledge is, that direct hit is actually recommended for tanks. Is there now also a kind of skill speed softcap value?

The softcap for GNB is around 2.39 secs with is about 1300 sks or so. Any above that is sort of useless, because you’re never going to get 2 Cartridge Combos up and then have a 3rd ready by the time No Mercy is ready. Det and Direct Hit is the usual choice, then later crit because it starts to scale stupidly.

Okay, good to know. Now i would know, where i can obtain those informations :P

It is worth to note that aurora synergizes with sacred soil and mantra better than equilibrium/clemency.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

It ticks 200 potency heal x6 once per 3 sec, its healing the same amount as equilibrium.
It could be used on a party member, therefore its better.
Not my fault you dont know the job you are playing.

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It's not better. The game is focused on burst damage, whether it's pulls (which people prefer wall-to-wall) or bosses (who throw out tank busters even in four man content). That makes a tank burst heal far more important than slower heals because it's not gonna help you much when you're taking a lot of incoming damage. Further, it synergizes poorly with the Gunbreaker skillset; Superbolide practically begs for a burst self heal, but what do you know, Gunbreaker's the only tank that doesn't have that. On the topic of using it on a party member, Clemency can ALSO be used on a party member, so Aurora isn't useful even in that regard. Aurora is more comparable to Thrill of Battle, except Thrill of Battle is far more useful with Equilibrium to synergize with it.

If you do it right before Superbolide you’re actually going to get about the same you would from equilibrium by the time it wears off.

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Originally Posted by Conando

If you do it right before Superbolide you’re actually going to get about the same you would from equilibrium by the time it wears off.

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Yeah, I know. I realize it has the same total potency as Equilibrium, it's just that the burst damage nature of FFXIV makes it a much less valuable skill than Equilibrium, because HP over time is far less valuable a tool for a tank than a burst heal.

It is what it is, though. I generally pop it near the start of a complete pull, or when a boss has taken off ~20% of my HP, and if they change it I'll change my use of it accordingly. I'm just saying that having the same total potency misses the context of the game archetype (that being burst damage).

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Originally Posted by MarvelousInRed

Yeah, I know. I realize it has the same total potency as Equilibrium, it's just that the burst damage nature of FFXIV makes it a much less valuable skill than Equilibrium, because HP over time is far less valuable a tool for a tank than a burst heal.

It is what it is, though. I generally pop it near the start of a complete pull, or when a boss has taken off ~20% of my HP, and if they change it I'll change my use of it accordingly. I'm just saying that having the same total potency misses the context of the game archetype (that being burst damage).

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Have you ever thought of maybe it’s for sustained mitigation instead of burst mitigation. Gunbreaker is a sustained mitigation tank which you can see from the frequency of brutal shell and aurora and (although not the best) camouflage. Like previously stated learn the job your playing or go play a different tank. Gunbreaker is fine.

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Originally Posted by MarvelousInRed

Superbolide practically begs for a burst self heal, but what do you know, Gunbreaker's the only tank that doesn't have that.

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Stares in Dark Knight... I mean I guess you're thinking of Abyssal Drain, but if we are talking about content that really matters (trials/raids), where you gonna actually have to use Superbolide, then Drk is in the same boat. Gnb isn't the only tank that doesn't have big burst healing.

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Originally Posted by MarvelousInRed

On the topic of using it on a party member, Clemency can ALSO be used on a party member, so Aurora isn't useful even in that regard. Aurora is more comparable to Thrill of Battle, except Thrill of Battle is far more useful with Equilibrium to synergize with it.

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No Aurora is superior to Clemency in normal raid conditions because you can use it without having to nerf your own dps. In reality, unless something is going to heck in a fight then you should never touch Clemency. It should basically be the condom of tank utility, "You'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

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Originally Posted by Rox_Unlimited

Have you ever thought of maybe it’s for sustained mitigation instead of burst mitigation. Gunbreaker is a sustained mitigation tank which you can see from the frequency of brutal shell and aurora and (although not the best) camouflage. Like previously stated learn the job your playing or go play a different tank. Gunbreaker is fine.

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A lot of you react with serious hostility when someone critiques your precious game. Seriously, you people act like someone kicked your dog because we don't think Gunbreaker is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

No Aurora is superior to Clemency in normal raid conditions because you can use it without having to nerf your own dps. In reality, unless something is going to heck in a fight then you should never touch Clemency. It should basically be the condom of tank utility, "You'd rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

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That still leaves the issue of it comparing unfavorably to Equilibrium and Thrill of Battle. Then again, WAR is the golden child, so that might not be the best comparison since WAR will always be better than everyone else.

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Originally Posted by MarvelousInRed

A lot of you react with serious hostility when someone critiques your precious game. Seriously, you people act like someone kicked your dog because we don't think Gunbreaker is perfect.



That still leaves the issue of it comparing unfavorably to Equilibrium and Thrill of Battle. Then again, WAR is the golden child, so that might not be the best comparison since WAR will always be better than everyone else.

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Not hostility, you just don’t understand the job. Yes the jobs not perfect but it’s far from needing crazy buffs. It’s performing extremely well if you know how to utilize your skills correctly. And just an FYI this is the best tanks have ever been balanced with each other and PLD and GNB are actually out dpsing WARs at the moment. Not by a long shot but WAR is not the king at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Rox_Unlimited

Not hostility, you just don’t understand the job. Yes the jobs not perfect but it’s far from needing crazy buffs. It’s performing extremely well if you know how to utilize your skills correctly. And just an FYI this is the best tanks have ever been balanced with each other and PLD and GNB are actually out dpsing WARs at the moment. Not by a long shot but WAR is not the king at the moment.

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I think you really don't understand where a lot of people are coming from. I personally love Gunbreaker. It's making me consider dropping WAR as a main after playing it for the last three expansions. That's how much I love it. I love the way it plays, and I love the style and aesthetic of the job.

That being said, we're not talking about crazy buffs right now, just some mild tweaks of things you yourself admit are not perfect. Camouflage changes (Parry to 100% would be a good one IMO because it still would make it underpowered for magical damage) or changing Aurora into a burst heal rather than a heal over time are minor tweaks that might make it play better or tighter. I'll still play and enjoy it even if those changes don't happen, and still believe the job is fine, but discussion does not mean dissatisfaction. Your assumption that I don't understand the job is just that; an assumption.

One thing I would like to see is an improvement to Brutal Shell. At the very least the effect should be allowed to refresh itself as currently if you for instance opt not to finish the full combo to get another brutal shell faster then you only get the heal and the shield times out. Ideally I would like to see the effect not only refresh but the shield allowed to stack with itself. This way despite the shield being weak you can build it up to something relatively strong, especially with support from other shields such as SCH shields. This would also make the sharing of the shield via Heart of Stone actually worthwhile as an effect.

Alternatively remove the heal component entirely and turn it into a 300 potency shield. Aurora can act as the health sustain option. Perhaps also give a new skill that grants a shield equal to a 1000 potency heal that grants damage resistance as long as the shield is in effect that can be shared via Heart of Stone. This would serve as the Equilibrium or Clemency counterpart but in a different vein then just a straight heal while also making the shield share of Heart of Stone actually useful in the off tank role.

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Originally Posted by MarvelousInRed

I think you really don't understand where a lot of people are coming from. I personally love Gunbreaker. It's making me consider dropping WAR as a main after playing it for the last three expansions. That's how much I love it. I love the way it plays, and I love the style and aesthetic of the job.

That being said, we're not talking about crazy buffs right now, just some mild tweaks of things you yourself admit are not perfect. Camouflage changes (Parry to 100% would be a good one IMO because it still would make it underpowered for magical damage) or changing Aurora into a burst heal rather than a heal over time are minor tweaks that might make it play better or tighter. I'll still play and enjoy it even if those changes don't happen, and still believe the job is fine, but discussion does not mean dissatisfaction. Your assumption that I don't understand the job is just that; an assumption.

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No I understand perfectly. Literally post being made every day about things like heart of stone being too weak or making brutal shell heal based off your damage. I’m saying the class is fine outside of quality of life besides camouflage which is bad compared to other cooldowns but not completely garbage. Aurora doesn’t need to be a burst heal. What for? Do we want gunbreaker to be on its way to a carbon copy of warrior and the class hasn’t even been out a month. Hell they already made Delirium for dark knight an off brand Inner release. The tank is designed for sustained damage and at the moment that’s where it shines. Let warrior be warrior and deal with burst damage where it shines.

The trade off in health regen versus lump hp restoration is that if you end up dying while the regen is still ticking down, the rest of the regen doesn't mean anything. I don't think being able to chose who to heal makes up for the fact that Aurora is not useful for the primary purpose of tank heals, coming back from being hit very hard.

I would propose either increasing the regeneration or adding a small lump heal to the beginning instead of making it a burst heal to make the skill more useful while maintaining Gunbreaker's as the sustained damage tank. Other than that I'm not entirely happy with Brutal Shell or Camouflage, to say nothing of the fact that XIV likes throwing damage in large chunks and that the idea of sustained damage management clashes with that, but solutions to these currently lie outside my ability to provide.

The same you could tell with equilibrium. If you use it at high hp there is a chance you will overheal and waste a big part of it.
I found myself using ahrora more than i do equilibrium on war. Its because of its sustained heal, its really hard to waste it and it does contribute to the gnb defenses, and give healer more time to adjust. Its a really good supporting heal as well it does heal a great part of healers hp if needed and i did used it on other many many times including MT.
Aurora > equilibrium > abyssal drain > clemency.
You dont need a burst heal in this game, healers already have it, if you geg hit by tank buster and get 50% hp taken away you dont have to heal immidiately to full...

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Originally Posted by Ventura_Highway

The trade off in health regen versus lump hp restoration is that if you end up dying while the regen is still ticking down, the rest of the regen doesn't mean anything. I don't think being able to chose who to heal makes up for the fact that Aurora is not useful for the primary purpose of tank heals, coming back from being hit very hard.

I would propose either increasing the regeneration or adding a small lump heal to the beginning instead of making it a burst heal to make the skill more useful while maintaining Gunbreaker's as the sustained damage tank. Other than that I'm not entirely happy with Brutal Shell or Camouflage, to say nothing of the fact that XIV likes throwing damage in large chunks and that the idea of sustained damage management clashes with that, but solutions to these currently lie outside my ability to provide.

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Do remember that auto attacks deal the most damage to tanks. At points up to 3 to 4 times as much damage as combined tank buster damage. If you’re dying to busters or auto attacks that are following it then it is either the tank using the improper cooldowns or the healers slacking. Gunbreaker and Paladin both mitigate the sustained damage from auto attacks very efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The same you could tell with equilibrium. If you use it at high hp there is a chance you will overheal and waste a big part of it.
I found myself using ahrora more than i do equilibrium on war. Its because of its sustained heal, its really hard to waste it and it does contribute to the gnb defenses, and give healer more time to adjust. Its a really good supporting heal as well it does heal a great part of healers hp if needed and i did used it on other many many times including MT.
Aurora > equilibrium > abyssal drain > clemency.
You dont need a burst heal in this game, healers already have it, if you geg hit by tank buster and get 50% hp taken away you dont have to heal immidiately to full...

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Exactly! We are tanks not healers! Our heals are to help over time not be a button we are constantly rely on. If you can’t clear content or are dying because your heal isn’t enough then it’s time to find new healers.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I wish they had a cartridge spender for aoe sooner.


I'm also in the 'superbolide is bad' camp. Not only can the timing potentially waste healer cooldowns like bennediction, as it's optimal to use it when at low hp which is also when a healer might go 'oh crap' and start healing you intensely, but sacrificing hp like that is just bad tank design. It's why they didn't give drk 'trade hp to deal damage' in this incarnation of the job despite it being a staple of the job.

I get that they don't just want to give them Hallowed Ground and want to have the tanks have different takes on their invuln skills. But they really ought to come up with something better. This also means that not only can it potentially be wasted with poor timing like any cooldown in the game, but is at a net loss of hp saved if you wouldn't have died without using it or you don't take your full HP worth of damage in the time.

It just feels like backwards design for a tank cooldown. Maybe if there was something else to it like, 'you heal back all the damage you take during the invuln period' when it expires so that you get healed back if used to tank massive damage, or put up a shield when the timer was up based on damage taken. But right now it feels like they couldn't think of a good creative way to make it stand out from hg/hom/living dead and just slapped this on there.

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Speaking as a healer here it is imo EVEN worse than already mentioned. I had tanks pop it at nearly full health with a lovely comment like "lol lets wake up the healer". Superbolide, the troll ability of GBN. GREAT....

I can see how it is MEANT to be used (which is imo nonetheless sub-par compared to the other invulns), but I still have to see half as many GBNs in DF use it correctly over the amount of facepalm-worthy or downright trollish uses I've encountered.

So please dear devs, for the love of all the Twelve and frustrated healers... change Superbolide into something that hasn't so much potential for BAD use and downright, trollish ABUSE. Great idea on paper, horrible idea with the realities of PUGs, DF and troll tanks.