Revelations from the Shadowbringers E3 Trailer

Lolwut?

On the bright side (every pun intended), I now have a good, lore-based reason to continue as summoner in 5.0 and beyond.

I had been thinking of switching to another job, possibly gunbreaker, to role-play the need for "darkness" in this new world the WoL has arrived in. But, as it turns out, being a summoner when he hears this revelation would be quite stunning, and oddly appropriate at the same time. :)

Someone remind me if we have Elidibus's origin story yet? Because I think it would be interesting if he was originally from this supposed pre-Sundering society. If he was there to see Zodiark and Hydaelyn when they were first summoned together, that could explain why he's more about balance than other Ascians.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Maybe, but that calls into question the Ascian’s actions. Why merge two primals? If they aren’t as important as we are led to believe then why even bother?

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Because of what will HAPPEN when they merge. We may not know what will happen now, but them merging is pretty much their endgame. Elidibus himself also stated long ago that once we knew what he knew, we'd have no reason to fight them (which has yet to happen). Something will happen when Zodiark and Hydaelyn merge, something big, something probably beneficial yet at the same time world shattering. We can only speculate until the pieces come together or the answer is thrown at us.

Sin Eater attacks have been going on for a century, so the Warriors of Darkness were definitely dealing with them prior to their appearance unless time flows differently there. They're also confirmed to be basically Light-type Voidsent, although the exact manner of their creation seems to be a bit different (infecting a living being with primordial light vs. "just" twisting what it already is).

Close inspection of Solus using his Ascian rune-mask has some resemblance to Zalera's glyph, confirming he is Emet-Selch. He is also on the First, meaning he is unlikely to be possessing or influencing Varis' actions throughout Shadowbringers.

Hydaelyn AND Zodiark are both primals?! ... well. Taking context into account, if Solus speaks truth they are indeed the will of celestial bodies, making them sort of sentient versions of IX world crystals. But... is the Hydaelyn we know really the will of the planet, or just an impostor brought forth from the desires of Varis' supposed "original perfect race?"

As always... for every answer, three questions.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Turns out Ifrit was right from the beginning.

We were claimed by another one. We've always been tempered!

Aaaaah!

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Ifrit is always right
https://i.imgur.com/cqKw39X.png

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because of what will HAPPEN when they merge. We may not know what will happen now, but them merging is pretty much their endgame. Elidibus himself also stated long ago that once we knew what he knew, we'd have no reason to fight them (which has yet to happen). Something will happen when Zodiark and Hydaelyn merge, something big, something probably beneficial yet at the same time world shattering. We can only speculate until the pieces come together or the answer is thrown at us.

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It’s that other thing happening that poses problems though. If they were simply summoned by people, then that means existence and life preceded them and is thus not dependent on them. Which means whether they are there or not is unimportant to existence. So why not simply destroy them and revert things back to before the summoning? Why this complicated rejoining plan?

Edit: Hydaelyn herself says that light and dark dwelled in the aetherial sea before they’re was life. Unless she’s lying, which is possible I admit, then that begs of the question of how Hydaelyn and Zodiark were formed.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

It’s that other thing happening that poses problems though. If they were simply summoned by people, then that means existence and life preceded them and is thus not dependent on them. Which means whether they are there or not is unimportant to existence. So why not simply destroy them and revert things back to before the summoning? Why this complicated rejoining plan?

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If they're more along the lines of parasites then digging them out may not be possible without causing immense harm and destruction.

That "Holy-" guy had it right. I mean. I'm sure everything I want to say has been said, but still. Holy heck.

I remember how many red herrings and mis-information was in the 4.0 game-play trailer...

I'm not trusting anything anyone says... particularly if they are an Ascian...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

If they're more along the lines of parasites then digging them out may not be possible without causing immense harm and destruction.

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Maybe. Though I can’t help but think the Ascians would struggle to even spell “collateral damage.” :p

And I can’t help but think if I was dealing with a harmful parasite, the last thing I would want to do is make it stronger and harder to kill.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

The easy story is that a pre-Sundering society worshiped a Mother Earth equivalent, a being that encompassed the planet itself. Their belief engendered a primal that believed itself to thus be the planet's will incarnate.

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I always have this one question that linger in my head about what the world was like before Hydaelyn and Zodiark was formed and now we know they are Primals, the question is even bigger.

Was the world more similar to our "Earth" where magic did not exist and society depended only on Technology? What drove people to create the concept of hydaelyn, Zodiark, and the being they become once fused? Was Magic some by product of Hydaelyn and Zodiark creation or something else? Are they going to pull one of those LN/Manga/Anime plots where they reveal that this world of FF14 is actually Earth itself but so far into the future that it is unrecongizable and our soul is us the players that has taken the form of our characters because of a calamity that lead to the creation of the being that Hydaelyn and Zodiark will be if they fuse?

if true they are primals
we are tempered by hydaelyn ass ifrit pointed out
we are primal slayers

that sound about right?

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I always have this one question that linger in my head about what the world was like before Hydaelyn and Zodiark was formed and now we know they are Primals, the question is even bigger.

Was the world more similar to our "Earth" where magic did not exist and society depended only on Technology? What drove people to create the concept of hydaelyn, Zodiark, and the being they become once fused? Was Magic some by product of Hydaelyn and Zodiark creation or something else? Are they going to pull one of those LN/Manga/Anime plots where they reveal that this world of FF14 is actually Earth itself but so far into the future that it is unrecongizable and our soul is us the players that has taken the form of our characters because of a calamity that lead to the creation of the being that Hydaelyn and Zodiark will be if they fuse?

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Well I would think magic had to exist before them in order for a primal to be summoned in the first place. And aether isn't something tied to the planet, since Midgardsormr and Omega are aliens and use aether, so it's not like Hydaelyn and Zodiark would have created aether.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Maybe. Though I can’t help but think the Ascians would struggle to even spell “collateral damage.” :p

And I can’t help but think if I was dealing with a harmful parasite, the last thing I would want to do is make it stronger and harder to kill.

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In the very beginning (or, well, close to the beginning), Lahabrea commented that Hydaelyn was indeed a "parasite" responsible for "aetheric disturbances [threatening] to warp aetheric and natural law beyond all recognition," and that She needed to be "burned out if the planet is to recover."

While it's easy to forget this and/or dismiss it as bunk... if Solus speaks truth, it's been there from the very beginning, up with Ifrit's comment that he couldn't temper us because "[our] soul had already been claimed by another." (Of course, given Hydaelyn hasn't used her claim on our soul to compel us to actually do anything, it feels more like an inoculation against other primal influences.)

So. F/GO Babylonia-style rebellion against Mom incoming? And we still don't know why the Ascians serve Zodiark and consider him the "one true god," if he too is a primal like Hydaelyn...

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Well I would think magic had to exist before them in order for a primal to be summoned in the first place. And aether isn't something tied to the planet, since Midgardsormr and Omega are aliens and use aether, so it's not like Hydaelyn and Zodiark would have created aether.

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but what if Aether was never part of the world and it was only brought her by something.

We know all souls return to the Aether after death for a cycle or rebirth but what if the Aether was created because something came and made it by consuming the Souls of the World (with us included) and created the Aether?

The trailer revealed the Sin Eaters are born by consuming and using the Aether of living people because it is the strongest and purest form of Aether energy. What if this is how the Aether of the world was created by a being (presumed to be what Zodiark and Hydaelyn was once was when fused) that consumed all the souls in the world.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I always have this one question that linger in my head about what the world was like before Hydaelyn and Zodiark was formed and now we know they are Primals, the question is even bigger.

Was the world more similar to our "Earth" where magic did not exist and society depended only on Technology? What drove people to create the concept of hydaelyn, Zodiark, and the being they become once fused? Was Magic some by product of Hydaelyn and Zodiark creation or something else? Are they going to pull one of those LN/Manga/Anime plots where they reveal that this world of FF14 is actually Earth itself but so far into the future that it is unrecongizable and our soul is us the players that has taken the form of our characters because of a calamity that lead to the creation of the being that Hydaelyn and Zodiark will be if they fuse?

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Note that as far as is understood, aether is the fundamental building block of the universe, not atoms. The world is fundamentally and physically different from ours. It would require an unimaginable change to make our world into the world of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

And we still don't know why the Ascians serve Zodiark and consider him the "one true god," if he too is a primal like Hydaelyn...

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Maybe he's the original personality and voice of their combined form?

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

On an unrelated note, Crystal Arm guy is a BLM trust

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Where did you see this? Also is it who we think it is?

The Elemental iconography is interesting. I don't really know anything about Elementals. Are they completely independent from Hydaelyn and thus could actually predate her? Maybe she's not a pure primal but rather a hybrid.
If I had to wildly speculate with my very lacking lore knowledge, I'd say Ascian society, which was a pre-split civilization, created Hydaelyn/Zodiark, maybe as a method to govern the laws of the aetherial sea and transcend death, much like what they can already do and what the Echo allows. Regardless of what it was, they had an end goal that needed a being greater than themselves. Hydaelyn however, like Alexander, didn't agree with whatever her creator's endgame was and rebelled, setting the current events in motion.

So existential questions about Zodiark and Hydaelyn are all well and good but on second viewing this is my favorite revelation from the E3 launch trailer.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...d1483994c4.jpg

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Maybe he's the original personality and voice of their combined form?

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The WoL did get a echo vision of a Black Crystal which is probably Zodiark

I honestly, dont trust that now cloned once dead Emperor of Garlemald. I mean he has a bigger track record of lying than telling the truth. Also, if they are both primals, and we are tempered, I dont think it's the exact same as what say ifrit, titan, garuda and ramuh does.

I mean think about it we've seen how atleast how the ones tempered by them act and well we don't act at all the same. Hell going along the dark knight quests we were on the verge of telling Hydaelyn to go screw herself... so while what he said was interesting ... I'm going to wait for more.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Where did you see this? Also is it who we think it is?

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We see him briefly accompanying the WoL through what looks like the Lakeland based dungeon, during which he begins the cast animation for Fire IV/Flare/whatever else uses that animation. And no we still do not have confirmation on his identity.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

In the very beginning (or, well, close to the beginning), Lahabrea commented that Hydaelyn was indeed a "parasite" responsible for "aetheric disturbances [threatening] to warp aetheric and natural law beyond all recognition," and that She needed to be "burned out if the planet is to recover."

While it's easy to forget this and/or dismiss it as bunk... if Solus speaks truth, it's been there from the very beginning, up with Ifrit's comment that he couldn't temper us because "[our] soul had already been claimed by another." (Of course, given Hydaelyn hasn't used her claim on our soul to compel us to actually do anything, it feels more like an inoculation against other primal influences.)

So. F/GO Babylonia-style rebellion against Mom incoming? And we still don't know why the Ascians serve Zodiark and consider him the "one true god," if he too is a primal like Hydaelyn...

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Right, but Solus seems to be following Elidibus lead on this, and I may be forgetting but I don’t believe he has ever argued it that way. If both Zodiark and Hydaelyn are primals, and Lahabrea knew this, but still only wanted to eliminate one, then there must be something else that’s the issue.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Right, but Solus seems to be following Elidibus lead on this, and I may be forgetting but I don’t believe he has ever argued it that way. If both Zodiark and Hydaelyn are primals, and Lahabrea knew this, but still only wanted to eliminate one, then there must be something else that’s the issue.

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It comes back the new driving question: if Hydaelyn and Zodiark are both primals (false gods), why do the Ascians denounce one as a false god(dess) and revere the other as their one true god?

Awakening Zodiark may simply be a matter of returning the world to equilibrium to prevent catastrophes like Floods of Darkness or Light, but that driving question remains, and it's going to gnaw at me for three more weeks.

All summoners main now ask "Hydealyn / Zodiark Egi, when?"

I'll bring a bit of something relevant after that. comparing French and english trailer, the only info I could process at 5 AM is that big fat dude talking about feeding people to Sin Eaters (Valtri ?) is explicitly refered as the Governor of Eulmore.

This contrast filter is not making things easy for me

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

Note that as far as is understood, aether is the fundamental building block of the universe, not atoms. The world is fundamentally and physically different from ours. It would require an unimaginable change to make our world into the world of FFXIV.

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Which has been implied that the world has been fundamentally and physically changed due to Hydaelyn influence over the world by the Ascians though we discarded it constantly in the past as false words of a bunch of crazy people.

I wonder...
If Light Mama and Shadow Daddy are actually primals that means they had to a) Be summoned and b) "Embody" something.

Taking a page from the world of FFVII (also that gameplay? Now i'm 100% sold) what if they are born not from some primeval race of man but rather they where "summoned" by the lifestream/aetherical sea itself? Sort of like Minerva for the FFVII version of the lifestream. That raises a lot more questions sure but would have some interesting lore implications.

Also i kind of remember saying in one of the speculation threads that we might deal more with the nature of what primals are. Guess i might not be wrong after all lol.

Decided to go dig around, and found the render of the cave painting, from way back in 2.3

https://i.imgur.com/OlJgauS.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT_Nj4i_6kY

On another note...

Anyone find it a bit funny the 5.0 story begins with our character meeting the First doppelganger of the Merchant we meet back in the beginning of our 2.0 Intro?

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

We see him briefly accompanying the WoL through what looks like the Lakeland based dungeon, during which he begins the cast animation for Fire IV/Flare/whatever else uses that animation. And no we still do not have confirmation on his identity.

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Could we get a time stamp, XD?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Could we get a time stamp, XD?

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1:25 in the (i think) American version of the trailer is when you see him running behind you with Alphinaud and Alisaie. At 1:27 you see him beginning to cast a spell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxHSSRjFH14

What does the imperial invasion that started in 4.5 have to do with anything we've seen in the trailers? Maybe I'm just not putting the pieces together. The way the MSQ ended and what we've seen in the trailers doesn't seem connected.

I knew it! Ever since Binding Coil gave us a look at Bahamut having a decidedly Mother Crystal-esque heart, I knew Hydaelyn would be a Primal. Alexander went a step further and confirmed it as well; An autonomous walking city-Primal with a crystal heart? Oh yes, lets take that to the logical conclusion and have a planet sized Primal! Throw in the biggest worry with Eureka being "What if someone asked him to make a Mother Crystal?" and the writing is on the wall, floor and ceiling. I knew my boy Lahabrea wouldn't lie to us, now watch Estinien and Zenos bump into each other to inadvertently revive Lahabrea, after the smallest sliver of his being survived in Nidhoggs Eye and latched onto the two men most possessed by it...

Also... Sin Eaters are undying with the same aether released from defeating one returning in another? Oh boy, I wish we had some method of consuming and warping aether... I've waited long enough for Free Company Primal Summoning, you give it to me now, Yoshida! Don't let Heaven-on-High be it...

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Originally Posted by Brill_

What does the imperial invasion that started in 4.5 have to do with anything we've seen in the trailers? Maybe I'm just not putting the pieces together. The way the MSQ ended and what we've seen in the trailers doesn't seem connected.

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While we are in the First, events of the war will continue in our absence and from what the trailer has shown, Estinien and Gaius will be the two characters that deals with it while the WoL is gone from the Source and we will see how the war progress from their point of view until the WoL returns.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I knew it! Ever since Binding Coil gave us a look at Bahamut having a decidedly Mother Crystal-esque heart, I knew Hydaelyn would be a Primal. Alexander went a step further and confirmed it as well; An autonomous walking city-Primal with a crystal heart? Oh yes, lets take that to the logical conclusion and have a planet sized Primal! Throw in the biggest worry with Eureka being "What if someone asked him to make a Mother Crystal?" and the writing is on the wall, floor and ceiling. I knew my boy Lahabrea wouldn't lie to us, now watch Estinien and Zenos bump into each other to inadvertently revive Lahabrea, after the smallest sliver of his being survived in Nidhoggs Eye and latched onto the two men most possessed by it...

Also... Sin Eaters are undying with the same aether released from defeating one returning in another? Oh boy, I wish we had some method of consuming and warping aether... I've waited long enough for Free Company Primal Summoning, you give it to me now, Yoshida! Don't let Heaven-on-High be it...

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But if the crystals were the hearts of Bahamut and Alexander, does that make Hydaelyn/Zodiark the literal heart of the planet, and the planet their body?

I'm really, really not looking forward to the endless posts about "Hydaelyn is a Primal and therefore evil, so we must ally ourselves to Zodiark, who is also a Primal".

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Originally Posted by Daralii

But if the crystals were the hearts of Bahamut and Alexander, does that make Hydaelyn/Zodiark the literal heart of the planet, and the planet their body?

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That was my hypothesis oh so long ago. We're effectively living on a Primal, and Primals aren't inherently "bad", just all the ones we've faced (who've been summoned via Ascian teachings...) are actively leeching off Hydaelyn. Granted, perhaps Hydaelyn also guzzles aether like the rest of the Primals, given that's basically the lore behind Rejoinings at this point... Still... I'm hesitant to kill the very embodiment of the very land we walk on... Hydaelyn seems self sufficient when you factor out Ascian meddling...

Also, because I completely missed it;

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Needless to say, I'm not trusting any new allies we gain in this expansion, especially if they're a fairy...

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https://i.redd.it/ktkvi4o24n331.jpg

Oh... Oh no...

Based on the trailer though, it seems G'raha might be filling the role of useful idiot... I guess Minfilia as Agnes was far too obvious...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Also, because I completely missed it;



https://i.redd.it/ktkvi4o24n331.jpg

Oh... Oh no...

Based on the trailer though, it seems G'raha might be filling the role of useful idiot... I guess Minfilia as Agnes was far too obvious...

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But does the fairy pixie have patterns on her wings that, if you squint slightly, could be interpreted as numbers counting down?

Either way, clearly we must be brave. By default.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

That was my hypothesis oh so long ago. We're effectively living on a Primal, and Primals aren't inherently "bad", just all the ones we've faced (who've been summoned via Ascian teachings...) are actively leeching off Hydaelyn. Granted, perhaps Hydaelyn also guzzles aether like the rest of the Primals, given that's basically the lore behind Rejoinings at this point... Still... I'm hesitant to kill the very embodiment of the very land we walk on... Hydaelyn seems self sufficient when you factor out Ascian meddling...

Also, because I completely missed it;



https://i.redd.it/ktkvi4o24n331.jpg

Oh... Oh no...

Based on the trailer though, it seems G'raha might be filling the role of useful idiot... I guess Minfilia as Agnes was far too obvious...

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To be fair thats probably a pixie!