Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

I wish they would have at least made it so it is still range / melee but it was a pair or dmg, another of skill speed, another of crit, so there is still some variety, now that we have seals and no royal road there was no need for a pure balance fishing.

These changes are a major disappointment and I will either be swapping to main SMN or just unsubbing altogether, not sure which at the moment.

Either way I won't be healing until these changes are revoked or better ones are put in their place, may the queues rot.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Just found the actual tooltips:

https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...Abilitymap.png

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I'm not understanding why using Divination with 3 different seals is a 6% party buff but having all the same seal or 2 different kinds are both 3%? It's not very encouraging to try and work up to 3 different seals. Each level should have incentive. And Minor Arcana is incredibly disappointing. You basically just make whatever card you're holding stronger. It would make more sense if it reversed the effect from melee to ranged and vice versa to guarantee you could make cards work according to party comp since they seem to be against any RNG anyway. Even with the new Charges this puts a lot of pressure on Redraw to give you what you need. Charges are also weird because I see how you can build them up between mobs in a dungeon but in a trial fight there is not really much down time to accumulate them. It would be nice if the charge time for Redraw was shorter than the recast for Draw. Even at 25 seconds it would allow you to stack more during a fight making the charges useful.

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Originally Posted by Rinkalos

These changes are a major disappointment and I will either be swapping to main SMN or just unsubbing altogether, not sure which at the moment.

Either way I won't be healing until these changes are revoked or better ones are put in their place, may the queues rot.

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Outside of potency changes I wouldn't be expecting brand new abilities a month before the expansion launches. Healers will be fine, people that enjoy playing healers will play them and those that don't will move on to something else. Also, the forums are the minority even if ever healer that posts here stopped playing healers you still wouldn't notice any decrease in queue times. People love making mountains out of molehills apparently.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Outside of potency changes I wouldn't be expecting brand new abilities a month before the expansion launches. Healers will be fine, people that enjoy playing healers will play them and those that don't will move on to something else. Also, the forums are the minority even if ever healer that posts here stopped playing healers you still wouldn't notice any decrease in queue times. People love making mountains out of molehills apparently.

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While I do agree with you on a whole, I wouldn't just throw away people's worries about healers currently. Tho yes I do think people are over reactting by a mile.

I'm unhappy, specifically, I am really disappointed. However, I will give the new AST (and SCH) a try. It isn't anything I wanted, but maybe it will play well and match the content. I don't know, but it sure looks bad.

Keeping 6 old cards, but turn all of them into a 15s 6%/3% damage buff card. YoshiP actually approved this idea...just...wow

I don't really see the point in fishing for cards for Seals to boost Divination in this system.
Outside of Savage, is there really any difference between 3% and 6%?
Two drops in an ocean is as noticable as one.

Even when optimising, it may not be worth the trouble if redrawing could waste time and potentially result in a worse card anyway.
Your best targets for cards are still your top damage dealers, if your party consists of say, Nin, Sam, Dnc, Rdm, then the clear winner is SAM and you'll want your melee cards every time.

Thinking about it, does this mean that Neutral Sect can be made completely redundant if a SCH uses Deployment? Critlo shields (Catalyse) aren't spread by Deployment so there's good potential for stacking there, but Galvanise still is, so does that mean AST and SCH both render each other's abilities useless?

Previously, choosing Diurnal was a good way to make sure you're still both useful, but, with our l80 ultimate ability using both sects, that now puts us in active conflict with a l56 SCH ability. Seems like a weird decision.

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Originally Posted by Suishouhime

Thinking about it, does this mean that Neutral Sect can be made completely redundant if a SCH uses Deployment? Critlo shields (Catalyse) aren't spread by Deployment so there's good potential for stacking there, but Galvanise still is, so does that mean AST and SCH both render each other's abilities useless?

Previously, choosing Diurnal was a good way to make sure you're still both useful, but, with our l80 ultimate ability using both sects, that now puts us in active conflict with a l56 SCH ability. Seems like a weird decision.

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This could be an oversight, but the shields on the new Celestial Opposition doesnt specific that it doesn't stack with Galvanise.
So there might be some room there to boost the shield.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

This could be an oversight, but the shields on the new Celestial Opposition doesnt specific that it doesn't stack with Galvanise.
So there might be some room there to boost the shield.

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The tooltip for Aspected Benefic/Helios still says the shields don't stack, so I suppose it depends on whether that extends to Neutral Sect and Celestial Opposition, or whether they give a unique stackable shield that works with Galvanise. Kinda funny given they said they want to move away from barrier healing.

It's not just me and it's certainly not just these forums. I'm part of a good number of communities. People are upset all over the place. Sure, not everyone is quite as incensed as I am, most non-healers couldn't give a damn, but this isn't an isolated feeling that just a couple dozen folks on the forums are worried about.

It won't be an organized thing, but people will get mad, they will complain, and if things aren't fixed they will leave. It happened in BFA, it can happen here.

Oh no..the cards..they ruined them..that was the main thing I loved about being an AST. You didn't know what you were going to get. I want to main this job because I still love it..but this is going to be difficult. Especially with DNC pulling me even harder now.

Everything unique about AST has been utterly ruined. There's no point in playing it anymore, they may as well just get rid of it.

AST was my main during Heavens Ward and Storm blood now the only good thing about it are the pretty star effects and that's it. Tip for the devs change the cards back to how they were it would make the class better.

I tried to see the good in it but i just cant at all. What they've done to the card system actually triggers me, our utility is gone and every card does the same thing save for the additional effect. The removal of any manipulation of the buffs and there effectiveness gone for a lazy slapped on damage. Where the risk reward in setting up your aoe balance every min for dps windows and questioning if you should redraw that other effect to try for balance in it. WHERE IS ANYTHING FUN LEFT

Ast has been reduced to just spam malefic even more now and that's almost all we did thanks for the first time i wont play this until something is changed myself.

They gutted my job. They took what I felt comfortable with in this game and destroyed it.

I'm actually ok with it?

From what I understand the cards are nerfed but it's more about having options of drawing specific cards and doing so more frequently. My only "concern" is the Divination buff, which is a good idea in theory, feels clunky in potency compared to duration. 15 seconds of 6% damage up every 3 minutes that's low compared to the potential spread balance we had every minute.
I don't know if someone already has mathed out the frequency of drawing and having cards up on individuals compared to every 30 seconds (every minute if you royal road). I think it's just a different playstyle. I want to play it before saying it's been slaughtered.

Now the healing oGCDs are a bliss, not just kicking WHM in the gutter once more, I love how AST embraces its versatility now. Coupled with a SCH, it's going to be very powerful, healing wise.

The new cards system seems terribly uninteresting.

Each time I play AST, I don't do the same thing because fortune doesn't give me the same cards.
This what is fun : impredictibility and decision making with the cards we got from Draw and Sleeve Draw.
Depending of the fight you are in, of the actual situation, the state of the team in this fight, the composition of the team, and your beliefs, you have to make a choice with the cards you got.
In fact, with all of that you have hundreds of possibilities. I can play the same fight over and over and each time it's new, thanks to the cards system.

Yes, it's not all about getting Balance AOE, its about dealing with cards to the best possible maneer while aiming for Balance AOE (or Arrow, it's not that bad).
I draw Arrow when I have already Balance in spread ? I redraw but got Bole. Not interesting at this moment, so I use Minor Arcana.
My partner or I was dead ? Focus on Ewer.
Will the team suffer for x reason ? Focus on Bole.
I draw a Spear with 150% enhanced ? Give it on Bard.
Should I discard my Spread card giving by Sleeve Draw because it's useless for now, or can I find a situation soon to apply it ?
Etc.

So many possibilities leading to so many possible decisions to take. This is our cards system. This is what is fun.
The new cards system remove all of that. The fun to playing AST will be gone.


Note : The new skills are not awesome and I'am deeply affected by the loss of Time Dilation, Celestial Opposition changes and nerf to Collective Unconscious.

Im actually really angry about the card changes. So now we are just a 6% damage boost? I loved being able to literally turn the tide of a fight with cards. Something hard hitting is about to happen bole. Someone needs a bit more MP got it. All while healing it was a lot to keep up with which made it exciting to me. I loved how different ast felt im considering just going whm its sad really.

What they should have done is use this exact system, except keep the old buffs for individual cards the same (excepting spire of course now with removal of TP). They should cut the potency of the old cards in half and then using minor Arcana should convert it into a new card with double potency. Arrow > Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of a party member or self by 5%, or 'Lord of Arrows' > Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay of a party member or self by 10%.

Keep the new sigil system on top of the cards and keep the aoe effect as a 6% raid wide dps buff. This maintains unique-card-job-relationships.

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions. The only thing that'll let me keep playing is if they revert the cards back to their original purposes. Although the dps numbers might ultimately be the same, numerical value doesn't represent how a class feels to play.

I'm not sure what the rationale behind this change was, honestly. Given AST still has utility with the damage boost, I think it's supposed to be aimed at meta-raiding parsers who just ultimately care about higher dps numbers and faster clears, rather than actually using the cards in creative ways? But the fun of AST wasn't in how big you could make the numbers go, it was the illusion of versatility and the choices you made regarding who you gave the cards to, whether you burned them for the buff, whether you converted them to Minor Arcana, and whether playing something was worth it using up the buff vs the risk of not playing anything while you wait for the ideal card.

Plus, there was the situational nature of the cards, too. AoE Royal Road might've been useful in raids, but single-target potency and duration were more useful in dungeons. Even Spire had its uses, like clearing big dungeon pulls and the DPS weren't using Tactician/Goad, and Ewer has saved many of my pug raids when my cohealer wasn't pulling their weight and I needed the mana boost to output consistent heals and raises. Throwing out a mindless Balance wasn't as entertaining as choosing to give the Arrow to a SAM or a BLM, and same with giving Spear to a DRG or MNK or BRD. Sure, it wasn't as optimal as Balance, but it added a level of decision-making that kept it fun.

Same with other abilities, too: Lady of Crowns gave me a decent amount of wiggle-room with its instant heal; Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition were super versatile in how they synergised with other buffs; choosing when to use Collective Unconscious since you were immobile for it (which I guess you can still do, but now you can also do it as SCH and WHM, so it feels less like a benefit of playing AST).

All of that's gone, now. Major bummer.

There are so many problems with this system as a whole. It's the core aspect of AST's gameplay, what differentiated it from SCH/WHM (let's face it, AST is STILL a taped together SCH/WHM with these changes) and now it's been reduced to this.

It shouldn't be more appealing to me to Minor Arcana a card when Divination isn't available. We don't need 6 cards when there's only 3 unique effects just to support Diviniation. And everything being a basic flat damage increase is, well, boring.

I would have rather they flat out removed Balance than done this. This is insulting.

While the new card system is bland looking, I do think there is some gameplay there that isn't bad. While I liked that 4-person and 8-person teams used the old system differently, that is probably something they wanted to discourage, and I can understand that. Losing the ability to use other cards when you needed is sad, but with less crit reliance in ShB and the removal of TP, the situation was going to get more balance focused than it was. This version does make it more obvious how to play the job well. I am coming around to this being a good change.

I am still pretty unhappy about the removal of much of our time mage flavor. That is something I wanted *more* of, not less. Celestial Opposition in particular was an interesting and fun skill.

Moving gravity to 45 and removing the damage falloff is really good though, and I think neutral aspect is a fun capstone skill. (Though terribly named! "Crepuscular" is a word that means "Of or relating to twiligt" and "Crepuscular Aspect" would have fit perfectly!)

They really need to change the name of that skill, Neutral sounds like is no good with one or the other, but something like Twilight, Eclipse Trance or honestly,anything but neutral would make it sound more like a perfect mixture and balance of both.

They have great name for AST skills: Lightspeed, Time Dilation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star, etc. and then Neutral Sect.

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Originally Posted by Suishouhime

The worst part of these changes, to me, is that they can't really be salvaged by patches, either - it's a fundamental rework to how the system functions.

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Yea, thats really sad indeed. The earliest point of fundamental changes would be after this expansion. :(

I made my own post about this but figured i'd copy/past here just to join the Discussion.

Its the changes to the 'non-healing' side of Astro that i feel was butchered. The Entire card system for Astro has been 98% gutted.

For instance, take below:
https://i.imgur.com/CetX2E2.png

On the left, you have Astro's options as of Heavensward and Stormblood 'purely' on the side of how their card system worked. On the right, you have what i could best do to describe what the 'new' card system is based off the media build you let people record their gameplay of. And this is from a person who has PLAYED Astro, and LIKES Astro. (its the one and only healer in FFXIV i enjoy playing). That is how i 'visually' feel you turned Astro's card system into.

The 'new' Card system is only Damage % buff. Nothing else. Just Damage % bonus.
1 card that gives 8% damage bonus to mele dps and 4% damage bonus to ranged dps.
And a 2nd card that does the opposite, 8% damage bonus to ranged dps, and 4% damage bonus to melee dps.
Then you have 3 signs that are randomly assigned to these 2 cards.

Using cards with 3 different signs in a row, unlocks.... get this... a 'better' Damage % buff.

They have taken a 'fun' Card system that used 6 different cards, and turned it into a 2 card + 3 sign system.

You dont even NEED 6 cards anymore.. in fact i can only guess they left it as 6 cards to make it 'seem' as if there were more options than there actually is. At its 'core', the current changes to Astro = a 50% chance on if we get the Mele or Ranged DPS card, and a 33% Chance on if we get 1 of the 3 signs.

6 cards, down to 2. With 3 'signs' for the sake of the new 'bonus % damage buff' mechanic.

Thats it.. thats the entirety of the Astro card system as of ShadowBringers if they go through with the changes that were in the Media preview build.

1. pull card
2. Check the sign, have you used it yet? yes/no
2.a if yes, cycle.
2.b If no, what class? ranged or mele?
3. Cast card on friend of appropriate clsss ranged/mele.
4. return to step 1.

Thats it.

ALL of the diversity that many of us Astro players LIKED about the class.. is gone.

When I am currently playing as my Astro, i get to make on the fly choices. Do i want to give this Ninja a Skill-speed Buff... or give him Crit chance?. Do i want to give the Crit-Chance to the bard and instead give the Skill-Speed to the BLM? Or do i want to cycle Balance and get a more powerfull version of the Crit-chance buff and throw that on the ninja?

In ShadowBringers?..... 2 choices. Is my target Ranged or Mele? And have i used this sign before? Thats it.... thats not fun.. thats Dull, thats boring.

The people in the party may as well just bring + Damage % food items with them rather than us. As WHM's will still have better (more potent) 'healing' abilities than we will have.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I'm actually ok with it?

From what I understand the cards are nerfed but it's more about having options of drawing specific cards and doing so more frequently. My only "concern" is the Divination buff, which is a good idea in theory, feels clunky in potency compared to duration. 15 seconds of 6% damage up every 3 minutes that's low compared to the potential spread balance we had every minute.
I don't know if someone already has mathed out the frequency of drawing and having cards up on individuals compared to every 30 seconds (every minute if you royal road). I think it's just a different playstyle. I want to play it before saying it's been slaughtered.

Now the healing oGCDs are a bliss, not just kicking WHM in the gutter once more, I love how AST embraces its versatility now. Coupled with a SCH, it's going to be very powerful, healing wise.

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Its not that the cards are 'nerfed' is that you lack choices.

we 'had' 6 cards with 6 individual effects.

Now we have 2 cards, and the chance of 1 or 3 different 'seals' appearing above those 2 cards. Oh, and both cards to essentially the same exact thing. One just gives a better bonus to mele, while the other gives a better bonus to ranged.

They didnt 'nerf' the cards, they removed them. and gave us a coin to flip instead. :(

Ast cards now: Royal road/minor arcana ewer or spire, maybe use ewer on a healer that died if you have it for fodder.
Maybe use a spire on a dps in dungeons for aoe.

Fishing for spear for monks and bards and balance for everybody, arrow could go on the caster in case you get nothing else. But what everybody wants is balance since balance is the best anyways.

Repeat.
Get bad cards and just minor arcana them since you can't do anything else with ewers and spires other than royal road but it's already on aoe.

But the decisions of maybe spreading a bole is gone, oh no, just use aspected helios in shield and or use the bubble, the bubble is amazing, asts don't use the bubble, why not use bubble, bubble nice, bubble friend.
The ability to help a res'ed healer is gone but what ast usually holds anything but an balance/spear or maybe pity arrow?

Ast cards in shadowbringers:
Still rng, but now ranged and melee are seperated. Each has 3 cards, each different card has a different seal. ALL are balances, all have the same effect
YOu want to fish for the buff your team needs depending on what class they are(don't forget that it will take more time in 8player content) to get 3 seals to use divination for an extra buff, repeat.

What you lose: Aoe, bole, tp/mp management tools that 90% aren't used since the ewer/spire got foddered off already for minor arcana or royal road.


Also, bards procs will not be dependant on crit anymore, they don't need spears anymore.

And you can't tell me that your tank loves getting a bole after an aoe balance because they apparently can't have it. ANd that it's really needed.
It's just a nice tool to have but the actual usability of it is niche at best.


TBH it doesn't sound too different to me, it's just different... dunno man, i will see. But the cards are the tiniest problemchange in my opinion since it's a tastething and we can't really talk about a TASTE thing without being able to actually TEST it. SInce looking is still different than playing yourself.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

*snip*
TBH it doesn't sound too different to me, it's just different... dunno man, i will see. But the cards are the tiniest problemchange in my opinion since it's a tastething and we can't really talk about a TASTE thing without being able to actually TEST it. SInce looking is still different than playing yourself.

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To make it as simple as possible, its about choice.

Those of us who 'liked' having multiple options given to us, because it made the class 'fun' are upset that we are having all semblance of 'choice' removed.

Those who ignored all choices and only 'fished for balance', like the change because the change caters to their playstyle, literally, by making every single card balance.

To many people, the fact that we had multiple ways to 'use' cards, is what made it 'fun' to play. While those who rolled their eyes every time they didn't get a balance card hated the fact that there were actually 'different' ways to play.

The change takes away 'all' semblance of 'multiple ways to play'. And makes it literally a 1-trick-pony gimmick.

Which, makes those who rolled their eyes all the time when they didnt get a balance happy. But all but destroys any 'want' those of us who liked the variety had for playing the class.

this is just a small porportion and most of the community especially the main healers are noticing 10k threads of over exaggerating the state of healers. Trust SE, you will be fine and you'll thank them for it later. Let go of meta, let go of premonitions of what you think is right, they tested it it makes since and it looks wonderful. At least TRY it first. All these doom and gloom threads

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Originally Posted by guardin

Let go of meta, let go of premonitions of what you think is right, they tested it it makes since and it looks wonderful.

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Tested by the same team as Gordias no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Rahspdoy

To make it as simple as possible, its about choice.

Those of us who 'liked' having multiple options given to us, because it made the class 'fun' are upset that we are having all semblance of 'choice' removed.

Those who ignored all choices and only 'fished for balance', like the change because the change caters to their playstyle, literally, by making every single card balance.

To many people, the fact that we had multiple ways to 'use' cards, is what made it 'fun' to play. While those who rolled their eyes every time they didn't get a balance card hated the fact that there were actually 'different' ways to play.

The change takes away 'all' semblance of 'multiple ways to play'. And makes it literally a 1-trick-pony gimmick.

Which, makes those who rolled their eyes all the time when they didnt get a balance happy. But all but destroys any 'want' those of us who liked the variety had for playing the class.

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Choice? I don't want boles since they don't do anything for me when i draw them. I don't need spires, i don't need ewers. And ewers will not help me in emergencies either. Neither will the bole if i want to push out that last bit of damage before the enrage.
It's an illusion of choice, why would you fish for anything but the best possible option just to maybe cover a niche that doesn't need to be covered? Yay, aoe bole, my bubble does this better and if i'm the shield healer, my shields do the same.
Yay that niche Spire for aoeing dps in dungeons, they surely appreciate that more than a card that makes things just die faster.

I understand the problem, i can see where it isn't fun for some, trust me, but the problem i have is that ASTs are trying to scream so LOUD over their OPINION. It's their opinion, based on what they see or heard, not actually PLAYED. They have 0 clue how it will play in 8 player content especially, since there is more to manage. Yes, you can talk about your opinion, i am not silencing you. But the amount of threads is really getting extremely overdramatic. Just because all cards are always useful now.

They're trying to make their taste for things a bigger problem than actual problems like SCHs apparently being an MP drain yet again, like at the start of stormblood wich will make them have problems keeping up with healing. On big pulls as an example. Or them having no aetherflowdump which may sound minor, but if you don't need to heal, then you shouldn't have to heal just to use your last stack of flow the most efficient.
Or whm having 1 defensive utility for 20 seconds on a long cooldown.
Those are problems.

Disliking the card system because choice gone and now all cards are ALWAYS good even if you use them on the wrong class is an opinion and a taste.

That is what i dislike. Ast apparently feels pretty weak healwise and celestial opposition is a laughable heal for the cooldown it has. That is a problem.

All the cards are always useful in every situation now, because you only have 1 card. Kinda hard NOT to have a useful card when the card you have is the only card you ever have a chance of having. With the only difference being if its one with a slightly better bonus to ranged, or mele.

They've taken away your card-deck and given you a single gil to flip in your hand, and 3 stings to draw from. Thats the new 'card' mechanic.

That is what we mean by the card mechanic has been 'gutted'.

Its no-longer an 'astrologian' and is more akin to a Oracle now as your simply making sense out of which face of the Gil you are seeing and how long of a string you pulled out of 3. Rather than reading the 'fates' out of a set of cards.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

But the cards are the tiniest problemchange in my opinion since it's a tastething and we can't really talk about a TASTE thing without being able to actually TEST it. SInce looking is still different than playing yourself.

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AST main here.

I don't need to taste dog poo to know that I don't want to eat it. They not only gutted the card system, they also gutted the class fantasy. The Ewer, whose waters replenish life? Yeah, that helps you kill things faster. The Bole, whose roots and branches provide shelter? That helps you kill things faster too. Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition rewarding players for intelligent use of buffs and regens? Gone, and with it, AST's manipulation of time as part of their lore.

And the general defenses of the AST changes that people give make no sense to me:

"But Balance was OP!"

Balance was bad for the game, therefore every card should be Balance?

The proper response would be to nerf Balance or rework it. Make it a +Det buff or something. Change Expanded to let you give a 75%-potency buff twice instead of a 50%-potency buff to the entire party, and now it's no longer strictly better than everything else in 8-mans, and it also becomes usable in 4-mans. None of this requires nuking the card system from orbit, as they've done for 5.0.

"But the new card system is better!"

Current AST cards require making decisions quickly when you don't get Balance. Nu-AST cards can be thrown out at random with no real penalty. Throw a card on the wrong DPS type and oh noes, it's +3% damage instead of +6%, how terribad :rolleyes:. Save seals properly and you get a whopping +3% damage on a 3-minute cooldown. Whoopdee-freakin'-doo.

There's no decision-making. No reacting to the state of the raid. You're just a Balance Bot now, and a brain-dead hamster can play the class because the skill ceiling has been obliterated. And given the new Trust system, where ASTs would have to be pilotable by the AI, maybe this was a deliberate design goal.

"But we'll totally need MOAR HEALZ in 5.0 content!"

After six years of tightly-scripted encounter design revolving around predictable damage spikes, there is no way Square is going to suddenly change to WoW-style constant incoming damage. Square seems intent on putting all the complexity into the DPS jobs, and making healing the role for people who want to catch up on their Netflix.

Since DPSers get all the shiny new toys every expansion, while healers get homogenized and dumbed down every expansion, I'm no longer going to heal. I'm going to switch to a DPS main. Probably DNC, because their buff system is more complex than Nu-AST, and they have an actual, honest-to-goodness DPS rotation that doesn't boil down to spamming Malefic until your eyeballs bleed. Queue times? Meh, that's what gathering and crafting are for. And those are more interesting than Nu-AST ever will be.

You're talking like i don't use Spears or arrows either.
I do, since i'm not going to waste my time fishing only for balances. I like spear and arrow.

But there is only so much a bole/spire/ewer can do. And those uses are really niche other than royal road/minor arcana them. I do also spire dps that go nuts on aoe pulls if i get no other cards on big pulls.

But that isn't a complex choice, that's me getting annoyed at the rng for not giving me a card that actually makes a big difference of anything?

But you're talking like you always can ewer a healer that died other than that one point where it happens and you just happen to have an ewer somewhere.

Also, lucid dreaming cooldown will be 60 seconds and stronger, so recovering from a death will be easier. (for whm it doesn't matter either way tbh)

The thing is, it's all rng and spear/arrow/balance are the best and ALL THE OTHER CARDS are minimal use only. Do you really want to hold on to a bole for a transition phase where the most damage goes out? I wouldn't. Does a spire help you in trials?
Bole? There's 2 healers in trials and chances are, you can shield them or the sch can shield. Bubble it, problem solved.

I also NEVER said that only all balances is good thing, don't get me wrong. I've been saying that people just scream over ALL of their cards being useful now, no matter what. In every situation. But that is just because balance is broken and buffs all damage so it outshines arrows/spear.

They could easily made the melee/ranged divide while ALSO giving all the cards different seals and ALSO different effects. So you get different effects and different seals.
Or give the different cards different effects while also randomizing the seals on each of them.


The card system is STILL just a taste thing. It's an opinion. That balance is and always WILL be broken is another.
That is a problem, but as long as balance exists, all other cards are a little useless in comparison other than the 3 classes that can use it well (brd/mnk and blm)

So the ACTUAL problem is that the cards are just the same. But Balance just has the best effect so they're all balance now. Take it out and make it direct hit/Crit/Speeeeeeeed
The card system itself is a taste thing


If it seems like i'm back pedaling, i'm not, i'm still the opinion that the system itself is fine, but may need some tweaks here and there, which needs to be tested first (divination cooldown is too long i think, could be shorter, or seal randomizing instead of it being set). I still think people are screaming about the wrong thing there.

I guess I'm not surprised by all the negativity in this thread. 5.0 AST is definitely no longer 4.0 AST that is for certain. Duration extentions from CO and TD, +potency, +AoE, +duration, def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration, Royal Road/Empty Road, Spread/Undraw Spread, ogcd ST damage (Lord), ogcd ST heal (Lady) are all gone. Wow!

Now look at that list. It's not only staggering that it was all taken away; it is equally staggering AST had it all in the first place. That is an insane amount of utility, and I didn't even mention it all. AST also has Lightspeed, Essential Dignity (unique ogcd heal), Sects, Synastry, and Sleeve Draw. You'll notice that I did not include Collective Unconscious, and that is because everything I just listed in this clause is what AST brought to the table that no other healer does. Even from the first list, there is a lot that is exclusive to AST.

I'm also shocked that the majority of the negativity is because of the change to the cards. The def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration doesn't even make up half of what AST lost, and of those five bonuses, two of them are undesirable and burned the majority of the time, while the other three are all just variations of what they ultimately do; Increase DMG. Yet, AST got to keep what was desired most. If I was a dev, I would feel like I just bought my daughter who loves ponies six of them, and then she got mad at me for it. Color me confused as eff.

I actually would agree about the cards if you weren't still essentially fishing for 1 of 3 desirables. AST is still basically looking for either 1 of 3 variations of cards when they draw. Before it was Balance, Spear, or Arrow. Now AST will be looking for 1 of 3 seals, but providing dmg up buffs while they do it. Even if you enjoyed having six different choices of buffs, your party didn't. Your tanks don't care about the Bole; they have defensive CDs and invul skills. Mages didn't care about the Ewer; they have MP regeneration skills and BRD. Nobody cared about the Spire. All they want is for you to increase their DMG output. They will be sad AST can no longer increase durations though. AST is still going to be meta though, and you all already know why.

Now the skill Divination is what I somewhat have an issue with, because there should be a difference in increase from 1 seal to 2. I believe this will get changed in the near future. In the WHM thread I said they suffered the least from loss of DPS skills, but that still entails suffering. AST didn't suffer at all, and the other two healers have been reduced to the same: one DoT, at least one AoE, and a filler. It is a bit of a disappointment that AST did not get any new offensive skill, especially after how well they did with Earthly Star in SB. But the updates to Malefic and Combust look absolutely wonderful.

As weird as this is to say, the biggest disappointment with AST for me, is out of all that utility they lost, next to none of it was given to WHM. Could've gave them speed, crit, mp refresh... They did get a damage reduction buff, so I guess that's something. But yeah, real head scratcher. Same with giving them Plenary Indulgence. Like what the actual eff?

Next to all of that I liked everything enough to give it another go. I'm not going to lie that they have simplified this job a bit. I know full well how good and engaging this job is to play right now. I truly do sympathize with the AST mains out there who must feel gutted from the losses. But I honestly believe the core concept of this job is still intact. I think this is the job that will surprisingly play to satisfaction, and some might even feel a bit relieved that they are no longer burdened with so much utility. We're still going to be able to buff the group while playing a RNG game with the card deck, and still keep others healed and contribute damage. Lowering Gravity to 45 is also godsend. I'm sure at least that is a welcome change we can all agree on.

AST grade: C+

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm also shocked that the majority of the negativity is because of the change to the cards. The def%^, speed%^, crit%^, MP regeneration, TP regeneration doesn't even make up half of what AST lost, and of those five bonuses, two of them are undesirable and burned the majority of the time, while the other three are all just variations of what they ultimately do; Increase DMG. Yet, AST got to keep what was desired most. If I was a dev, I would feel like I just bought my daughter who loves ponies six of them, and then she got mad at me for it. Color me confused as eff.

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Balance being heavily desired and ewer/spire being royal road fuel aren't things people liked. Those three cards needed a rework, but this way is crazy lazy. I don't want to be a the raid damage buff bot, and instead they not only doubled down on that role, they gutted every bit of complexity from the mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Pomp

Balance being heavily desired and ewer/spire being royal road fuel aren't things people liked. Those three cards needed a rework, but this way is crazy lazy. I don't want to be a the raid damage buff bot, and instead they not only doubled down on that role, they gutted every bit of complexity from the mechanic.

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Even if AST in general didn't like having to burn those cards and wanted them to be something different, I'll point back to your party caring about one thing and one thing only; increasing their damage. I hate to say it but you are the raid damage buff bot. You're just now realizing this? It's a big reason why I left the job in the dust after using it for a while after getting it to 70. It wasn't for any reason revolving around feeling like the job didn't play well. I strongly disliked the card mechanic because it gave the illusion of choice. 5.0 card mechanic doesn't hide behind this ruse and doesn't have as many layers of RNG to go through.

I also really haven't seen too many good suggestions about what to do with the other cards either. A popular suggestion was changing the sects so that they changed what the cards do such as one sect providing buffs to the group and the other sect using debuffs on the mob. Now AST can debuff too! It's gotten too far. Having a skilled one in your group is like having a Gameshark. It's not a case of bringing the other healer up either. AST had to be knocked down some pegs, and most of us knew it was coming too.

The thing is, this feels more like a sledge-hammer was used, rather than a scalpel. Rather than 'lets try adjusting balance so the other cards have a more enticing option and see how it works'.

No... they simply went "welp, the meta players are only using Balance, so lets just make every single card balance"

The new 'card' mechanic isnt even cards.

its a coin flip and a roll of a only-found-in-eorzea 3-sided dice.

Were no longer 'reading the cards' and are more akin to an Oracle digging threw the intestines of some butchered animal seeing which side of its hart is facing us to decide if we have a Mele, or Ranged bonus, and how long its intestines are to determine which 'sign' goes along with that 50/50 chance.