Can we try... In 5.0..

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Releasing the cap would just mean they get even more behind. Their progress isn't affected by the cap in the first place - it's other players that are held back by it.

Say they can only get around 200 tomes per week. Other players get 450. They are getting about 50% of the maximum possible progress.

Uncap tomes, and they can still only get 200 tomes a week (restricted by their personal access), while other players could be getting 2000. They are only able to make 10% of that other player's progress.


Whether this is a problem or not is a separate argument. But it's incorrect to say that uncapping tomes will help them.

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Actually it could help them in cases when they happen to get additional free time due to a holiday, vacation, etc and actually have a larger amount of time in a short window to play the game essentially to catch up. However with the current system their tome progress ends in just an hour or 2.

Isnt this already given in a way?
We were able to farm the Ala Mhigan gear with tomes during 4.0 release and were able to upgrade them with hunt seals/books while we had Susanno to farm his weapon and Lakshmi to get accessories.
Dont think we need to uncap tomestones just to have more ilevel, unless you are speedfarming/raiding it wont matter anyway, or?

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Actually it could help them in cases when they happen to get additional free time due to a holiday, vacation, etc and actually have a larger amount of time in a short window to play the game essentially to catch up. However with the current system their tome progress ends in just an hour or 2.

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It would still only help if somehow they were uncapped while everyone else still was. Because the "players with lots of time" would be making that sort of progress every week, not just on rare occasions.

I like the gear progression of a weekly cap.

- Limits the amount of strength a player can acquire quickly, making the raid tiers more difficult in the beginning and slowly easier over time due to the gear involved.
- Also creates less RNG. I don't really want to go back to seeing a friend not get a raid weapon for three months while I literally looted it out of a chest (World of Warcraft) for doing a dungeon.

It's not like anyone really should need all that gear week 1 anyway.

Only thing I would like is a weekly rollover that extends the limit if you miss a week. But to uncap it provides reason for worse systems to come into play, devalues content early on, and can mess with the server(s) economy due to all the items you can buy with those tomes for crafting crafter/gatherer sets, FC-related items, etc...

'sides if you're new to 70 now and want a grind to get good gear, just do Eureka. :^)

The first set of Tomestones will be uncapped and have a 2,000 limit a la Law and Veracity. Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I don't think this would happen for casual content like dungeons. Maybe EX primals and Savage Raids but, that's a toxic community already anyway.

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Such judgment. I do love seeing comments about how “toxic” raiders are, as if non-raiders aren’t equally as “toxic”. :smile:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The first set of Tomestones will be uncapped and have a 2,000 limit a la Law and Veracity. Please look forward to it.




Such judgment. I do love seeing comments about how “toxic” raiders are, as if non-raiders aren’t equally as “toxic”. :smile:

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At this point, savage raiders remind me all those isolated village stories where the peasants blame all their misfortune on that one person who basically figures out how to cure the equivalent of the measles. All it takes is one bad drought and suddenly, the village head honcho runs out of his hut, flails his armand, in a really agitated but vindictive voice, belts out a "THAT PERSON IS THE REASON WHY YOUR CROPS ARE DYING! KILL THEM!"



And then, of course, when the drought persist, it's time for the daily witch hunts to begin, cuz, you know, at some point you gotta appease the FUD you spread in the first place by having a convenient scapegoat nearby. Truly, such benevolent and utterly devoid of sin these peasants are for burning these witches.

Kinda tapped on this in another thread when you asked about Genesis weekly limits OP. Still don't get what the rush to gear up as there will be plenty of time to do it, and it's not really a big deal to get there immediately if you don't do much or any higher end content.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-tome-caps-SE

While uncapped tomes might seem like a good idea from a personal standpoint, being able to grind out full sets of gear within a short period of time.

The game as a whole would likely suffer. Most notably, because a significant portion of the playerbase consists of fair-weather players. You know the ones, they log in only when there's new gear to grind out and once they max out their gear the unsub/just don't log in until the next round of gear gets added (Meanwhile, whining about how stale the game is and how there's so little content)

To which, uncapped gear grind will allow these players to advance to the point where they no longer are active in the game much faster. Thus reduce player interactions across the board (Fewer people running roulettes, raiding, crafting, buying stuff off the MB, farming trials etc) which is a net loss to anyone who participates in this content.

Of course, you could argue that catering to this type of player isn't worth it, given that MMO's thrive off subscription income as well as player loyalty... However, it happens that no small number of MMO players are this type of player, where their gameplay literally just consists of them hopping from gear upgrade to gear upgrade and unsubbing whenever there's no progression left for them.

It's just an inherent design with MMO's. People run content to obtain rewards. Once they have the rewards, they no longer see the reason to keep running content. Essentially, people aim to get BiS so they can have the best stats to unsub with >.>

If you uncap tomestones people will poopsock gear for all their classes in less than a week and then complain that there's no content to do, I guarantee you.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Can we try not having a weekly tomestone cap in 5.0? At least for one patch cycle? Please? Pretty Please?

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lol.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

it's just bugging me to not be in full sceaven gear lol.

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this is a "you" problem, not a "game" problem.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Square will never change the formula because to them its wildly successful. I mean everyone here is still playing and loves it right? If not they'd have unsubscribed long ago. Or at least that is probably how they see it.

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That's not the case. It's actually punishing to the player and not an enjoyable experience. The reason why SE has the tombstone cap is because they want to artificially add game time / subscription extension and people buy into it because it's one of the few remaining MMORPGs with a community. So despite the many flaws this game has, how many things actually punishes the player, people are willing to accept it for the sake that it's one of the last surviving MMOs that isn't a freemium gachafest and maintains some reasonable level of integrity. So any time they add something new that takes 12 weeks to complete because they cap how fast you can get these things, that's 12 weeks of extra sub time that people are "forced" into if they are completionists. This isn't bad per-se, it's actually a brilliant business strategy. I don't really obsess over these things though, I play other content and if I feel like it, I'll get more tombstones for the sake of having them. If the only thing that kept me playing was tombstone gear, I would unsub, but this game has more to offer than just that, at least until I complete everything else lol

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

That's not the case. It's actually punishing to the player and not an enjoyable experience.

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It may seem like its punishing the player and not enjoyable, but that's because its an MMO and they cant 100% always be focused on the single-player experience. If you look at single player-games with the same amount of scrutiny as we do with FFxiv's tomestones, you would probably find a ton of "artificially added game time". But FFxiv isn't player focused, its group focused. And the gear lockouts and such is required to marginally keep most of the consistent, active playerbase around the same iLvl so that they can keep playing together.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

People with limited play time is a reason to remove the cap. People that can't cap in a given week for whatever reason are permanently behind. Personally, I wish they'd do something like the hallmark system in FFXI.

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No, it's the exact opposite. Cap ensures that no-lifers won't let you in the dust right away. Not capping one week means you'll be at basically "one accessory" behind others.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

While many do share sets there are some instances where every job had its own set of tome gear.

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It didn't happen since the first capped set of HW. I guess they especially created the lvl70 quest reward to not do the same "mistake".

Yes, let's not have a cap so a good chunk of player can burn out near instantly. Great idea lad. /s

The thing I hate about the weekly cap is not really the time hating of one job’s gear progression, but rather that it forces me into picking a main job each patch that will undoubtedly be my most feared for weeks/months. Maybe the best part about FFXIV to me is that you can switch jobs on the fly without needing to invest over and over in alts. The timegated tomes process kind of doo doos all over that concept.

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Originally Posted by TheJarvisMan

The thing I hate about the weekly cap is not really the time hating of one job’s gear progression, but rather that it forces me into picking a main job each patch that will undoubtedly be my most feared for weeks/months. Maybe the best part about FFXIV to me is that you can switch jobs on the fly without needing to invest over and over in alts. The timegated tomes process kind of doo doos all over that concept.

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timegating* not time hating

(Can I not edit posts from my phone?)

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Originally Posted by TheJarvisMan

but rather that it forces me into picking a main job each patch that will undoubtedly be my most feared for weeks/months.

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That's why there are alternate ways of gearing. If you raid, you can technically equip one job in raid gear and another in tomegear. If you don't raid, you'll be feared (and geared ;)) enough for any content by using alternatives like crafting gear, 24-man drops or exploration gear (If we still have them next time), two of them probably uncapped.

One thing I'd like to see is a cumulative cap, similar to what Blizzard did for conquest points in WoW. Something like 50% of your unused cap should roll over to the next week, allowing people with less time or who have been gone from the game to catch up a little easier without lessening the amount of work involved to do so.

Removing the cap entirely won't happen though. They don't want people no-lifing dungeons and being fully decked on the Tuesday the patch comes out. It lessens the incentive for people to keep logging in and playing.

Not going to happen, and they're not going to remove weekly lockouts on raid drops either. Because if they didn't have weekly caps people could just blow through it all in a weekend and be done until the next major patch. This is why MMOs have weekly and sometimes daily lockouts on things in general.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Not going to happen, and they're not going to remove weekly lockouts on raid drops either. Because if they didn't have weekly caps people could just blow through it all in a weekend couple hours and be done until the next major patch. This is why MMOs have weekly and sometimes daily lockouts on things in general.

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Fixed that for you!

Also let's not forget how that would negatively impact PF and balance of future content. PF would enforce ilvl requirements that are much closer to full tome gear ilvl on content freshly released, essetially forcing people to farm out these endless tomes to even step into the content. Content would also get cleared at an alarming rate as it would of been balanced to a much inferior ilvl.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

That's not the case. It's actually punishing to the player and not an enjoyable experience.

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How is it punishing the player? By not putting players in a position in which they may be pressured to play a lot during a small space of time, they're being punished?

Something tells me you are not very familiar with raiding. Any vaguely competitive team will demand players to grind an entire tier's worth of gear in a day. This will automatically exclude anyone who is even just in college or has a job unless patch day happens falls on a holiday. Raid pugging would also be a mess for similar reasons. Those who had the time to grind like crazy will have no interest in playing with those who geared up at a more normal pace.

Removing the gear gating the tomestone cap creates would instead introduce content access gating by the players. At least the tomestone cap treats every player the same. Community generated gating would not. Just look at the Baldesion Arsenal situation to see just how great gating is when the playerbase does it.

This would divide the community into groups of those who can cap tomes fast, and those who cannot. Which means the pool of players someone can play with would shrink. This is bad for the longevity a mmo.

It's not just about "lul SE want to make more money so they force us to sub longer with this silly cap" it's also about wanting to keep the playerbase in a more healthy state by giving them reasons to play together more often.

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Originally Posted by Corue

If you uncap tomestones people will poopsock gear for all their classes in less than a week and then complain that there's no content to do, I guarantee you.

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And they only have themselves to blame for it. Just like those that complain now that there is nothing to do because they refuse to play certain jobs or do specific content at all based on how its classified without even trying it.

Well if not removed at least up at 2 as someone else has suggested 900 instead of the 450. Right now going from 0 to 2000 takes approximately four+ weeks, at least with 900 it would only take two+.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Also let's not forget how that would negatively impact PF and balance of future content. PF would enforce ilvl requirements that are much closer to full tome gear ilvl on content freshly released, essetially forcing people to farm out these endless tomes to even step into the content. Content would also get cleared at an alarming rate as it would of been balanced to a much inferior ilvl.

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So make your own party that has a lower ilvl? No one is forcing you to join those higher ones.

Nope, I want the weekly cap. the weekly cap allows them to design content in a way that allows me to make guaranteed weekly progress without mind-numbing RNG-infested grind that we would most likely get in its place were it to be removed.

After experiencing Eureka (which I'm sure they used to test all sorts of terrible ideas) I... don't really trust SE not to come up with a much, much, MUCH worse alternative. I shudder to think what they would come up with if they tried to deviate from the existing formula.

I do want the game to change and evolve. Just maybe not... in the area of gear progression and accessibility. I feel it already hits the sweet spot, I don't want them to mess with it.

Keeping this capped is probably for the best, both for players and for SE. Mostly for the same reason.

It incentivizes continued subscriptions, which keep server upkeep paid for. If I could cap day 1, I would probably sub for 1 month for 5.0, then cancel sub till the next MSQ update. Yes, selfishly speaking, that would be financially great for me. But if this was on the full scale, Everyone paying 1 month and quitting till next MSQ update would be bad.