Still Excited for More Limited Jobs?

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

but don't you see, it would be UNIQUE the first auto attack specialist job of it's time.

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I would not be able to see that. I'd be blind.

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Originally Posted by HarryTipper

They did get rid of the "The Time of My Life" GATE from the Gold Saucer which was kind of like dancing.
The NPCs there were even named Lord/Lady of the Dance.

Maybe in preparation to introduce Dancer as a limited job? :rolleyes:
Nah, they wouldn't be that silly....right?

God, please no... :(

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I suspect there's a far more mundane reason for removing it: the introduction of Viera.

Either they've taken it temporarily offline while they reprogram it to fit in the extra set of dancers, or they've decided that it was unpopular enough to cancel it altogether rather than update it.

If they will decide to give us another useless limited job instead of another tank and a healer, i promise i will travel to japan and throw eggs at the windows of SE HQ.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Why not? why would you want Dancer, a historically unique buffing job that learns it's skills from other dancers to be a cookie cutter healer/melee DPS, they'd just be the same as [Insert Melee or Healer here] that's not fun.

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Cause I could at least enjoy it for more than 1 week before casting it into oblivion. Blue mage is a very short lived "learn spells" gimmick class which is ruined by lack of open world skills and horrible rng.

I'll take a "cookie cutter" class I can enjoy in all content over a super restricted class that is isolated in its own world.

I think the biggest mistake for BLU is the limited max level... I kind of doubt people would hate it so much if it could reach 70 and do all the Trials and Raids, including extremes and savages (although only through party finder). They could do relatively fine with their current selection of spells even at 70, outside of Masked Carnivale, if they just allowed them to get there, no need to release the HW/SB spells for them if they're not ready.

But since they've said they're going to increase the level cap only after the release of Shadowbrigners, I think once it's out they should hurry it along and get it to the new max level...


And if they do make more Limited Jobs, don't limit their level cap.

Yes!

However and this is a big HOWEVER, it depends what those limits/restrictions are.

Can't take it into Savage/harder content/PVP?

Okay, I don't have an issue with that as I can imagine balancing such jobs would be nightmarish.

Can't take it into MSQ/casual dungeons/raids?

Hmm, I might have problems with that.

With limited jobs, I want them not to be leveled capped.

I want to bring them in unsynced for older content.

I don't see the point of trying to fine-tune balancing for such jobs for casual content.

Of course, they should not be so horribly unbalanced that everyone only wants to play them for casual content or they trivialize MSQ/casual content even further.

I want devs to experiment more with such jobs and design them especially for overworld content like Beast Tribes,Hunts, etc

Heck, I'd like to see a limited job which is not Tank, Healer,DPS but I can imagine they're not gonna rework existing dungeons/raids so I think any job which is outside of the Holy Trinity would be cool for overworld content.

Nope. Unfortunately I can see some people thinking "please don't be limited please don't be limited please don't be limited" whenever a job they're looking forward to gets announced at the 6.0 fanfest.

I'd rather they undid the limited job label on BLU completely than ruin any more classic Final Fantasy jobs.

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

Nope. Unfortunately I can see some people thinking "please don't be limited please don't be limited please don't be limited" whenever a job they're looking forward to gets announced at the 6.0 fanfest.

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I think Beastmaster is the only job where people might be upset if it wasn't limited, since it has such a rep for being a solo job from FFXI.

I quite enjoyed BLU. But then I wasn't trying to make it something it's not.

BLU offered unique gameplay which is something FFXIV severely lacks. It offered build customization which is something people have been clamoring for forever. It offered unique puzzle-type encounters to overcome, again it's something new and different. And it did all this without betraying what a blue mage is supposed to be.

It took me a week to grind to 50 and obtain all the spells. Not bad at all for something which was announced from the get-go as side content. Oh and I had a good time doing it too.

Blue mage, for an ostensibly solo job, was one of the best social experiences I've ever had in FFXIV. Working together with other blue mages to learn spells. Swapping information about mechanics. Helping one another through primal grinds. Trusting each other not to bail when half the party learns a spell and the other half hadn't yet. It was great. I look forward to more blue mage content in the future. And still I will take it for what it is rather than what we already know, going in, it's not.

Would it be nice to be able to take it into current raids? Sure, but it's not balanced for that. I think it would really do quite poorly in raid content because that's not what it's for.
Would it be nice to be able to use the duty finder? Sure, but how many queues of Ifrit EX did you actually want to sit through as a dps? How many Aurum Vales? How many Stone Vigil HMs? This was a job that was never going to work the way it needed to in matchmaking. But it works pretty well in the party finder.

Am I interested in seeing what SE can do with other limited jobs? Sure. Because I want more variety in gameplay. I want more interesting stuff to do. I can level two dozen jobs day after day through duty finder queues and daily hunts and beast tribe quests. Super. Great. They're all the same. If this system gives SE the chance to show me something different, I'm in.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Why not? why would you want Dancer, a historically unique buffing job that learns it's skills from other dancers to be a cookie cutter healer/melee DPS, they'd just be the same as [Insert Melee or Healer here] that's not fun.

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I think everyone missed the /s you didn't add.

Joining the general motion not wanting more Limited Jobs, unless they were XIV exclusive. At least then it would be easier to accept as a mini-game instead of a job people have been expecting and now are locked out of.
The Postmoogle Carrier that was brought up is a good example, even if it shows that you don't even need to make it anything more than it is, basically a bunch of quests. The irony is that with the duties they programmed for it, a case can be made about how it's more of a solo job than BLU, with how much you need to rely on other people to get BLU's skills...

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I think Beastmaster is the only job where people might be upset if it wasn't limited, since it has such a rep for being a solo job from FFXI.

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And then it will be about as solo as the BLU we got, relying on level x0s to carry them through content so they can get their stuff...? Let's face it, the really interesting enemies are all duty-locked in this game, and I doubt they'd make solo versions of half their existing content just for a Limited Job.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I think Beastmaster is the only job where people might be upset if it wasn't limited, since it has such a rep for being a solo job from FFXI.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And then it will be about as solo as the BLU we got, relying on level x0s to carry them through content so they can get their stuff...? Let's face it, the really interesting enemies are all duty-locked in this game, and I doubt they'd make solo versions of half their existing content just for a Limited Job.

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Pretty sure just about all enemy types exist outside of dungeons.
It would be very stupid to make it so that the stats and skills would be determined by which exact enemy you get captured...

Like crabs are a common enemy, using them as an example, it shouldn't matter which crab you go ahead and get as a Beastmaster, just a random low level or a dungeon boss, it should always have the same skills and stats as other crabs. Just have it scale to their job level.

I guess? Why not?
Like blue would have not that kind of design nor content if they would have designed it like a regular job, was something else. If it would have been a regular job they would just add a jobquest in Shadowbringers that people would pick up and some people would main. Nothing more nothing less, which i am far less interested in.
However, i would like them to drop the limited jobs for the overall state of the game cause people get salty. Pretty much agree with everything @Callinon said.

Yeah, I enjoy collection based activities, and the messing around with the less then optimal skills has been fun with friends. Though I would like in the future for their to also be a fully fleshed out version of the job for people play. More options are never a bad thing, but if I had to pick between a limited job or fleshed out job that would solely depend on the gimmick. I do not buy that BLU could not have been done as a normal job, but if the limited job aspect was the reason that allowed them to work on it then I rather it be limited then not have BLU at all.

No, thank you.

I was never on board with limited jobs in the first place and remain unconvinced. SE has provided no refutable reason for why the current Blue Mage can't work as a full job. If anything, the existence of Blue Mage has left me even less convinced that future, yet to be released jobs could only ever be implemented if they were limited.

Let's look at Puppetmaster as an example because it's easy to imagine how that job "can't work" as a normal job in FFXIV due to having a pet automaton capable of tanking, dealing damage, or healing. It doesn't conform to a specific role and therefor cannot work. False. Let's take a moment recognize how pets function in FFXIV. Essentially, Puppetmaster would have access to automaton equivalents of Titan-egi, Garuda-egi, and Eos. At best, Puppetmaster would be able to support heal, but it wouldn't hold a candle to a dedicated tank or healer. And let's not forget that, at it's core, Puppetmaster was always a DPS job.

Even swapping between different automaton frames mid-battle wouldn't be a problem either. "Oh, the healer went down. Let me bring out Soulsoother to sustain the tank until we recover." That's no different than what a Red Mage can do.

Point being, you can have jobs that break the mold when it pertains to solo or casual content. We already have jobs that do that. But once you arrive at high-end content, jobs conform to their designated role. This is true for all "normal jobs" and it also holds true for Blue Mage. Puppetmaster would be no different.

What about attachments? Well, if SE decided to incorporate those, I can see them working almost exactly the same as Blue Magic. Some may drop from open world enemies and others could be awarded upon completing milestone tasks, like quests. And you know what? That's fine. All of that is fine. Aside from RNG being lower than it should be in certain cases, there's nothing wrong with jobs having a different progression system. None of that is enough to keep jobs like Blue mage and Puppetmaster away from being considered a full job.

It's not SE's job to police player's acquisition of abilities. They already don't do that for every other job. And if they had to, I would rather have them say, "you must collect all spells or attachments before you can participate in content" rather than say, "whether or not you've collected everything, you will always be restricted from content."

No matter how you try to spin it, limited jobs are an unnecessary restriction that SE intends to force upon multiple beloved jobs.

If you want to lay back, relax, and enjoy unconventional party compositions in casual content while socializing with like-minded individuals, Blue Mage as full jobs wouldn't stop you from being able to play that way. But by remaining limited, many players who want to play Blue Mage in the content they enjoy simply can't.

Absolutely not, BLU has so many contradictions in its design and the whole concept is horrible.

When they said it will be a "solo" job and since they were limiting it from doing almost anything, I at least expected it to be able to solo the primals and dungeons for its spells. The whole job design is a mess. Blue Mage ruined. Never again.

There are other jobs that are much better suited to being a 'Limited Job' than even Blue Mage.
Blue Mage could have worked as a regular job with some sacrifices, it could even have worked better as a limited job with some tweaking, which I hope they do.

Beastmaster however would flat out not work as a regular job, unless you just want a Summoner clone. It would work much better as a 'pokemon style minigame' as simplistic as that sounds.
They could even bring in Onion Knight as a job that gets powered up by your other jobs.
With a bunch of limited jobs, they could pool resources and create an 'endgame' for all of them that works much better than the Masked Carnival.

The alternative?
We never get Beastmaster or Onion Knight.
If you're ok with that then fine, but I still think it'd be neat to see them.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

There are other jobs that are much better suited to being a 'Limited Job' than even Blue Mage.
Blue Mage could have worked as a regular job with some sacrifices, it could even have worked better as a limited job with some tweaking, which I hope they do.

Beastmaster however would flat out not work as a regular job, unless you just want a Summoner clone. It would work much better as a 'pokemon style minigame' as simplistic as that sounds.
They could even bring in Onion Knight as a job that gets powered up by your other jobs.
With a bunch of limited jobs, they could pool resources and create an 'endgame' for all of them that works much better than the Masked Carnival.

The alternative?
We never get Beastmaster or Onion Knight.
If you're ok with that then fine, but I still think it'd be neat to see them.

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You get beast master and turn all its skill animations to summoning beasts during the skills animation, having them attack and then they disappear. Beast master is complete.
You can also change how the job works completely and just make it use spirit animals that visibly appear around your body as armor or as skills.

There is nothing really in my opinion that can stop any job from coming into the game. I believe Square was just being lazy and didn't want to make a full job and settled for less.

Despite my absolute hate for BLU being a limited job, I do actually want some better/more limited job. I just don't want them to be combat jobs. Instead,



I rather more actual minigame style jobs, like performer or Carrier. Carrier is already level 50!? I'd like to keep it going and maybe make the carrier portion an actual minigame with the lore/stories/glamours at the end is the reward for doing them. Maybe a stealth game to dodge monsters, or a puzzle type game to find the person you need to deliver to. That would be some fun.


Performer could be like the Christmas mini-game, but with dancing, singing, and a stage show. Collect dances, preform at special venues for "content" and aim for a high score. Hell, you could even have team performances as a "raid" for the job.


Limited jobs are fine if they aren't combat jobs.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

You get beast master and turn all its skill animations to summoning beasts during the skills animation, having them attack and then they disappear. Beast master is complete.
You can also change how the job works completely and just make it use spirit animals that visibly appear around your body as armor or as skills.

There is nothing really in my opinion that can stop any job from coming into the game. I believe Square was just being lazy and didn't want to make a full job and settled for less.

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No, that's what Summoner should have been.
Beastmaster without beasts.. right...

Yes, Mime and Bare should be added at some point, but maybe a few other first. Having multiple limited classes would lead to more dynamic gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

When Blue Mage was announced, many were excited at the prospect of other odd-ball jobs, such as Beastmaster and Puppetmaster, potentially being added as Limited Jobs.

Now that BLU has been released and we've seen it in action, I'm wondering if folks are still looking forward to BST, PUP, or other jobs being added as future Limited Jobs.

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Yes. It's a new experience and it's fun. I have no doubt the playability will be expanded as the game continues.

If it means I wouldnt get Beastmaster or Puppetmaster at all I rather take the limited version.

I love Puppetmaster, if it only can be a limited job so be it.

It does not mean they will actually add more limited jobs, though it seems plausible.
As for comments about Dancer being limited, Ummm HELL NO.
If at all they could do it to jobs that hardly any want but have been talked about not too long ago which in Geomancer and Arithmatician and such.
I could see them also do that to jobs like beastmaster perhaps (no not advocating it)

I like the concept of it, but the execution is... a topic to discuss. If they change how these ‘limited jobs’ work, perchance I’d anticipate new ones. I do hope that they don’t lock really interesting jobs behind it though.

I am not excited for more Limited Jobs if they are going to be restricted from running high-level (i.e. whatever the level cap is at the time) content in parties or Duty Finder.

The Blue Mage could have been an “Advanced Job” rather than a “Limited Job”. It could have required you to go out and learn spells, but still allow you to participate with every other Job (of course, with a big screen when you get the Job explaining that the Blue Mage will take more effort to master than usual). Learning could have been an “alternate progression system” rather than a reason to keep the Job locked out of the majority of the game.

Myself and others are highly disappointed that this was a job we were looking forward to maining and incorporating into our FFXIV identities, but we can’t. It doesn’t allow us to “be” the Blue Mage except under very specific circumstances. I would hate for this to happen to any other Jobs people are looking forward to “being” in the FFXIV world as I believe everyone has a Job they favor and identify most with.

I would be okay if Limited Jobs were kept exclusive to either of the following:
1. Jobs that are FFXIV-original. That is, jobs that nobody was “waiting to play as”.
2. Jobs that historically exist as almost objectively superior options (Onion Knight, Freelancer, Mime, maybe Sage). Nobody would reasonably expect to “main” a job that is good at nearly everything.

I do believe that lessons can be learned from the Limited Job problem:
Many players would appreciate more things to do with their Job (but not at the cost of content everyone can participate in).
For instance, what if SMN could gain Limited Abilities to do big flashy summon attacks?
What if they had to collect Egi glamours in the same way BLU collects spells?
Just some thoughts. I don’t think the idea of alternative progression needs to be sacrificed, but limitations on content definitey make me very sad.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

I think Beastmaster is the only job where people might be upset if it wasn't limited, since it has such a rep for being a solo job from FFXI.

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No one will be upset, no one gives a flying duck about ffxi either. :p
Its kind of a ded gaem at this point, ffxiv is full pledge mmorpg experience, where people come here from other games such as WoW, GW2, Wildstar and so on. Having jobs that are played alone without many features like normal job does is super weird, people are thirsted for new content for new classes to play normally. The game is lacking healers and tanks, because there are not enough these classes to support the Pug, that what the game needs. Duties are still the core of the game, ignoring it will hurt the game in the long run.

I really don't see why Beastmaster would have to be tossed into the Limited Jobs bin. Just have like 4 different categories of beast and each category has its own small moveset. You can collect a ton of beasts and have a taming log or whatever but it won't be a nightmare to balance.

Swapping between say a salamander, a slug, and a fish would only change the appearance of your pet not its basic moveset. But if you swapped out to a bird or wasp or bat it would change to the moveset of flying beasts. Switch to an adamantoise or a crab and it would switch to the extra tanky moveset.

AKA you can still have a fun collecting minigame without it being any harder to balance than Summoner. If you want to say "Oh than it would just be a Summoner", well we can have more than one pet based class. Make Beastmaster a pet based Tank if you want.

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Originally Posted by Stygian

I really don't see why Beastmaster would have to be tossed into the Limited Jobs bin. Just have like 4 different categories of beast and each category has its own small moveset. You can collect a ton of beasts and have a taming log or whatever but it won't be a nightmare to balance.

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I don't see why any of the jobs have to be limited :3. Also we literally have beastmaster examples from other MMOs so I'd hope not to hear that it's impossible to make it work.

I can see a joint system for blue mage (main part balanced, side part circus magic collection) being a nice way to give blue mage the whole cake, so that's what I'm hoping with some weird classes.. we'll see on that I guess.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I can see a joint system for blue mage (main part balanced, side part circus magic collection) being a nice way to give blue mage the whole cake, so that's what I'm hoping with some weird classes.. we'll see on that I guess.

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Could even be some sorta spell glamour that has an added effect in Carnival.
Like you get one slot for Cone-spell. You'd then pick from the spell book which cone you have active (AquaBreath, Lv5 Petri, Flamethrower...). Same with Line-Aoe, Point-blank, Circle aoe around caster etc. This would still have some customizability but would filter out the action bars from copypasted spells, and be a tad-bit easier to balance out.
And have the elements and other effects matter in Carni so there'd be a choice still.
Or incorporate Scan into sort of a cd move: Increase dmg done by *element* to scanned target for x seconds.

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Originally Posted by Skeith9

Yes.

I want Beastmaster next. Go around getting lore on all the monsters. We'll finally finally get a Bestiary.

I Imagine it with a arm crossbow and getting to put what ever monster you tamed in the sub-weapon slot and it fights with you, with it's own abilities. (nothing like SCH/SMN summoning). Throw in the Monster Arena from FFX-2 where we can even make our own unique monsters, and I would be ecstatic.

Maybe for gameplay make it that ranger every one wants but we won't get, with trap laying and what not. If we get to set traps in the Monster Arena and maneuver the Arena Boss into them with our Monster Ally, it would be fairly fun.

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I love everything about your comment, especially the monster arena from X-2.
I was thinking if BST were to come as a limited job, they would design it as a mix between Final Fantasy Tactics Advance's BST and Morpher jobs. You keep all your great ideas of bestiary and lore and collect pets instead of souls to further raise and customize in your monster bank (that you can edit to your liking). And in battle it could function as a melee damage dealer that calls and channels a wide range of beasts.

So much day dreaming potential. Thank you.

No.

Blue was fun until it was time to get the good spells, where it turned into another RNG nightmare. At this point, I am RNG intolerant, keep that nonsense away from me!!!

I can’t use them in MSQs which is doubly insulting with the upcoming MSQ reset “new game +”.

Just... to many convolutions and restrictions as per usual.

I want more limited jobs. I really enjoy BLU and hope to see the limited system expanded and improved upon. Took me a few days to get all the “Grindy” spells and had a good time with it.

I'd like to see them work on Blu before they make more limited jobs. They made mistakes with Blu, but if it's all a big experiment then there's still time to tweak and polish it. It would be pointless releasing more limited jobs before they even got the concept functioning.

The biggest mistake was making Blu limited but giving them no advantage to being limited. Blu just isn't op. It has terrible dps. It can't tank properly. It can't raise. Its heal is situational. It was designed around the Carnival and as a result it's far too "balanced".
The other issue is there being no reason to play outside the Carnival. The leveling experience is over in a few hours. Blu only-groups aren't required for anything and are inferior to being carried. There are no new rewards for doing lv50 content. The Carnival has no real replay value either.

I had fun playing Blu admittedly, but it was over in a week.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

ded gaem

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English? Also, where is my second gold medal?! :(

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'd like to see them work on Blu before they make more limited jobs. They made mistakes with Blu, but if it's all a big experiment then there's still time to tweak and polish it. It would be pointless releasing more limited jobs before they even got the concept functioning.

The biggest mistake was making Blu limited but giving them no advantage to being limited. Blu just isn't op. It has terrible dps. It can't tank properly. It can't raise. Its heal is situational. It was designed around the Carnival and as a result it's far too "balanced".
The other issue is there being no reason to play outside the Carnival. The leveling experience is over in a few hours. Blu only-groups aren't required for anything and are inferior to being carried. There are no new rewards for doing lv50 content. The Carnival has no real replay value either.

I had fun playing Blu admittedly, but it was over in a week.

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I have to agree. I haven't touched BLU since I reached level cap, and because of the cap, I cannot even justify using it while running the MSQ since the EXP is wasted on it. At least if it were capped at 60, since I'm still working on level 53 HW MSQ at the moment, it would be worth it to continue playing- and I really enjoy it- but for now it's just sitting because there is no reason to play it anymore until the cap is raised.

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Originally Posted by Ruf

Also, where is my second gold medal?! :(

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There are two gold medals to be earned for post count, and then there are a few kin medals. Some kin medal are based on posts liked and posts you've made that receive likes. I'm not sure where the others come from, common to see a max of five here but there are technically more and I don't know how that works - maybe devs hand them out (which would be why japanese side is the only place I've seen like 7 lol?).

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Originally Posted by Auryan

I love everything about your comment, especially the monster arena from X-2.
I was thinking if BST were to come as a limited job, they would design it as a mix between Final Fantasy Tactics Advance's BST and Morpher jobs. You keep all your great ideas of bestiary and lore and collect pets instead of souls to further raise and customize in your monster bank (that you can edit to your liking). And in battle it could function as a melee damage dealer that calls and channels a wide range of beasts.

So much day dreaming potential. Thank you.

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I'd really like to play a transforming job in main combat... Although it's possible they add morpher limited job and then some other new to the final fantasy series transforming main job too, I'm not attached to morpher the job title I'm attached to the idea of transforming/metamorphasis. Perhaps another example of a job that could be advanced, rather than limited.

Limited jobs just need more content tailored for it. More side content that limited jobs would be able to join in regardless of balancing would help quite a bit I think.

I prefer another type of content

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Originally Posted by Stygian

I really don't see why Beastmaster would have to be tossed into the Limited Jobs bin. Just have like 4 different categories of beast and each category has its own small moveset. You can collect a ton of beasts and have a taming log or whatever but it won't be a nightmare to balance.

Swapping between say a salamander, a slug, and a fish would only change the appearance of your pet not its basic moveset. But if you swapped out to a bird or wasp or bat it would change to the moveset of flying beasts. Switch to an adamantoise or a crab and it would switch to the extra tanky moveset.

AKA you can still have a fun collecting minigame without it being any harder to balance than Summoner. If you want to say "Oh than it would just be a Summoner", well we can have more than one pet based class. Make Beastmaster a pet based Tank if you want.

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Oh Beastmaster absolutely could be added as a regular job (just like BLU could have). I just think that BST is the one job where people might actually prefer it to be a solo job.