Where did SE advertise it for its "soloness" as opposed to advertising it as a limited job with special solo content that can only be done by the job (Masked Carnival)? They did warn players from the start that they would need to group up with other players to learn the most powerful abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
it would be nice if leveling was less exploitable
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01-20-2019, 06:41 PMJojoya
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01-20-2019, 07:06 PMJijifli"Blue Mage is the first "Limited Job" coming to FFXIV. A Limited Job is a job that is meant to be enjoyed in a solo environment and is not suited for parties. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Right from the Letter from the Producer, Number 46 (Where it's announced.)
They said it was meant to be enjoyed in a solo environment and not suited for parties. So why is half of its content locked behind parties, and it's not capable of doing solo content any better than anyone else, and in some cases, even WORSE than other classes.
Outside of gimick shotting a boss fate, RDM is a better solo job than BLU right now.
And interestingly enough, the screenshots show the BLU soloing the primal content for the abilities... -
01-20-2019, 07:12 PMEvogolisthttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...7&d=1543360580Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
That's taken from the fan festival live letter. Unless the local team translated it wrong, they pretty much stated right there that it was designed for solo play. -
01-20-2019, 07:21 PMJojoyaWhich it is. Designed for the Masked Carnival, which is solo play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evogolist
Not suited for parties? I'd argue that possibly. It has some use in parties depending on your willingness to ditch the weak 1000 Needles spam and use the ability combos that are more powerful once you get past 38. Considering most people seem to want to only spam 1000 Needles, then I agree it's not suitable for parties.
I think where the translation is flawed is saying "While blue mages can learn abilities while in parties" instead of "While blue mages will need to learn some abilities in parties". -
01-20-2019, 08:10 PMswiss_Momo
people don't really enjoy levelling, more news at 11!
levelling BLU to 50 solo the 'legit' way is simply a dreadful experience because of the laughably low solo target damage output.
Water Cannon with its whooping 120 potency is the weakest base damage spell of ANY class bar Ruin I (which doesn't really count because you get your pet at lvl 4). 1k needles has a longer cast time than the log-in queues on Balmeme on a patch day, and any other skill with actually decent potency is either locked behind a lvl 50 dungeon/primal or a meme suicide spell.
This is why I too only levelled normally to lvl 20 something since all the bonus exp items made it painlessly fast. After that I decided to hit the sylphlands -
01-20-2019, 08:12 PMPenthea
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...7&d=1543360580
It appears some people are misinterpreting this image.
1: "Designed for solo play" does not mean "you should only solo" or "you can solo everything". If we were to apply this to standard classes the image would say "designed for group play" but we all know this doesn't mean you should only ever play in groups if you're playing a standard class.
The end-game content for blu is The Masked Carnivale, which is solo content. This is the solo play blu is designed for. The end-game content for standard classes are raids, which is the group content they're designed for.
Just because something is designed with a specific task in mind does not mean that's the only thing it can or should do.
2: "Not suited for parties" does not mean "you should only solo" or "you should only play with other blu players". It means that while blu is classed as a dps, it does not fit into the trinity system the standard classes are designed for.
Blu is a jack of all trades but master of none. It has a lot of utility and high damage potential, but past the point of cheesing out 1k needles, a standard dps class does more reliable damage. It has one strong heal but it can't compete with a healer's varied toolkit and it has no res. It can tank but it's not as durable or efficient at aggro building as a real tank.
On top of the above, blu does not learn abilities by lvling up which means the effectiveness of one blu player to another can wildly vary. If you have a lvl 50 standard class in lvl 50 group content, you know that the player has access to the necessary abilities to complete it. Not the case with blu. Having a blu in the party can mean having to carry a dead weight, or having a very useful team mate. -
01-20-2019, 09:04 PMKageTokage
Leveling as BLU is a lot more fun if you can get access to Dragon's/Ram's Voice since it allows for mass mobbing between the former's huge radius, the latter's long-lasting freeze to mitigate damage and the combo of the two that can burn down a group surprisingly quickly.
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01-20-2019, 09:16 PMLastelliDoesn't "jack of all trades" mean "pretty good at everything"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
Maybe I'm still missing the most important spells, but right now it looks like BLU is just a terrible dps, a terrible tank and a underwhelming healer. Frankly, it cannot even be compared to other jobs because of how underpowered it is. Its sole reason of existence is the masked carnival, using it for anything else is just a waste of time. It might be fun if you're doing it with friends while chatting on discord, but what isn't?
I wasn't expecting much and I'm still disappointed. The masked carnival is a decent minigame, but I really don't think that alone can make a job relevant, no matter if they label it a limited job.
Also, lvl 70 players carring BLUs in instanced content to help them learn their spells gotta be one of the most absurd things I've ever witnessed in a videogame. I really hope this wasn't their intention from the beginning, because it's just bad design. -
01-20-2019, 09:42 PMPentheaIt can actually far outpace standard dps classes in pure damage on trash, but on bosses it is often lacking. White Wind can be crazy strong as it heals equal to your own hp, but the flip side is that can also mean it's very weak. The lack of a res and a low cd cleanse can be an issue. I found it okay as a tank in 4 man content, but I suspect it won't be very good in hm and ex trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
I personally found with blu that the skill and experience of the player has some serious impact on the class. There is no rotation. There is no fixed way to play it. I have met some blus who thought spamming 1k needles would get them through everything (spoiler: it doesn't) and they forced the rest of the party to work a lot harder, and I met other blus who were prepared to use any spell if the appropriate situation arose and they were a dream to play with. The difference between these two kinds of players is astounding at high lvl.
With that being said there are some serious holes in blu, even when you consider it's a jack of all trades class. But this could very well be due to the current low lvl cap. It could be a very different story when you can get it to 60 or 70.
I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because liking something is a matter of opinion. I have had great fun doing The Masked Carnivale on my own. I find blu itself to be a nice change of pace from the rest of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
This one is somewhat a matter of choice. You don't need to have lvl 70 players to help you, but the other side of it is it can be very difficult to get help from someone who isn't lvl 70, given that's the current max lvl. The lack of lvl sync when you do instances as blu is very annoying. It would be great if you could get help from your lvl 70 buddies, but when you're in the instance you have the choice of all being lvl 50. Not everyone enjoys getting boosted and it sucks that right now this is the only option for most players who want skills from some lvl 50 content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
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01-20-2019, 10:12 PMColino
Whilst I'm enjoying the content for what it is, most people wouldn't need to exploit through the leveling up process if the job was actually as broken as they made it sound. As it stands solo-levelling is just dreadfully slow because of how weak most of the spells really are.
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01-21-2019, 03:15 AMJijifliClasses that come out that are normal do not tell us they're "designed for group content," which showed BLU was meant to be different. And of course we didn't say "You SHOULD only solo" because that's not the point. For a class "Designed for solo play" I'd expect it to get its piece on its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
I'm keeping the carnival opinion out since I actually haven't done that part of the content. It wouldn't be a fair opinion as I'd only be able to work off of word of mouth. However, I will focus on the "designed with a specific task in mind" part of this. Yes, it can work off of more than its original intended design, and it probably should, but focusing again on, "Designed for solo play," part. It does not feel like, to me, it did a good job being designed for solo play. For something to do more than it can originally do, it should be good at doing at what it originally did. Imagine if WAR did more dps, but couldn't keep threat anymore, at all, for whatever reason. Would you call it a tank anymore? It's still classified as a tank, doing, let's just say for funsies, a BLM's damage output, but it's not doing the job of a tank very well.
That's how I feel here. It's a class meant for solo play that isn't doing that solo play very well, outside of ONE piece of content.
Which my statement is also pointed out here. For a class that, in the picture, states it's designed around solo play, it's not very good at doing that outside of carnival and the gimmick spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
Actually, you can't KNOW either way. I've had plenty of cases of players who were lacking their skills. In fact, I even ended up in a 60 dungeon on an alt with BLM forgetting to do any of my HW quests, removing almost half of my damage output. The difference is that, while I'm able to just do a quest for a skill, I have to go farm nightmare in Garuda EX because it's apparently more common than this spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
When a mount I never even knew was a thing, and have most of the other ponies anyways, is more likely to drop than obtaining a spell that, outside of carnival, is worse than Ifrit's version anyways, there's a flaw in design of how common this spell is.
Also:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...3&d=1543360801
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...4&d=1543360810
Both these images, also from the producer's letter on revealing BLU, show the BLU in Shiva and Garuda. In Shiva case, having the spell sure, but in both cases, ALONE. I wonder where people got the idea we could solo these? -
01-21-2019, 03:45 AMHugowulf
Oh look another one of these threads. Guess that this job is so boring that people feel the need to complain about someone else getting a limited job capped.
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01-21-2019, 03:53 AMPentheaThe "you should solo" comment was mostly aimed at those who were using that blu info image as a way to legitimise the use of the job swap xp exploit. Which is funny in itself because the mobs they're killing can be soloed by blu anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
In what context? If you mean instances, then sure it's not viable for solo play there unless you out lvl the content by a lot. But in the open world it can be super strong. I have killed mobs 10 lvls above me with ease as blu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
However I did find out you can two-man a lot of level appropriate instance content as 2x blu, that you simply could not do with any other dps pairings. While this of course isn't soloing, it's still noteworthy.
What do you mean by this? This is blu's first appearance in the game. It didn't originally do anything else than what it does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think every time SE showcased a new class they showed the class doing combat on its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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01-21-2019, 04:00 AMKaonisEven if that is the case, we all knew the other jobs were able to play in raids, dungeons, and all other content for combat classes. They didn't have a presentation describing DRK, AST, SAM, or RDM as "Not being suitable for parties" "Can't queue in DF" and "Designed for solo play" accompanied with a video showing off their abilities while solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
We very clearly knew those new jobs were like others in the types of content they could do. Expectations were clearly understood what they would be and be able to do. -
01-21-2019, 04:07 AMPentheaI totally get what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that showcasing a new class doing combat on its own isn't a new thing at all. As far as I recall it's how SE presented them every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonis
What I mean is the clips of fighting the primals alone shouldn't be enough to automatically assume you can solo everything as blu, but when coupled with phrasing such as "designed for solo play" then yes, I can see how altogether it can be misleading.
That said I personally assumed you couldn't solo ex trials...as you would have to be crazy powerful to. Maybe hard modes at a stretch. -
01-21-2019, 04:19 AMJijifliI looked up the reveal for HW and SB classes. DRK smacked a basic mob. AST healed itself and hit nothing. MCH shot a basic mob. RDM styled on, but attacked, a basic mob. SAM got a full on cinematic trailer for it, but at most, cut some normal dudes down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
Meanwhile, BLU's reveal, it SOLO'S SHIVA.
Yes, they show combat on their own. I didn't deny that. BLU's the only one being shown to solo group content in its reveal trailer. -
01-21-2019, 04:19 AMAlexandre_NoireauIt kinda is a good measure of how bad implemented some content can be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugowulf
If content is good, people share information and usually, more than that, just play the damn thing, since is good and fun, no time to be here.
If content is divisive or bad, we have this. Thread upon thread, and i'm all for them, it shows that the job in its current implementation is at least divisive. I just wish developers are actually assessing data from the forums. -
01-21-2019, 10:37 AMSomeRandomHuman
It would be nice if glass dance would drop in less than 100 runs
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01-21-2019, 01:01 PMHakuro89
I'm failing to understand why it's other players' fault you feel wronged. It was an error on the part of the developers, which by the way has been a thing for quite a while.
If someone's going around one shotting things, I really don't care, it's not like they've laid claim to the entire map. It's not a problem caused by people one shotting things, it's a problem cause from a new job dropping with really only one way to level it. So there's going to be a ton of blue mages in every corner of the (ARR) world grinding on overworld mobs. Naturally with finite mob spawns, there's going to be competition.
And what's with the mount complaint, anyway? 'Have to jump on a mount to find mobs'? What?
So you run around the world on foot then? -
01-21-2019, 01:24 PMVahlnirYeah. Making spells a challenge to get is fine. But when the real challenge is not going insane because of insanely low drop rates something is wrong. Very wrong. There's a time and place for RNG. BLU is not the best time or place.Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman