What has happened to my beloved FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

Great! I assume you like your Relic weapon and all the other stuff you can only get in that content, right?

Now imagine all that stuff will be locked behind the worst possible content you could imagine. This is how relic feels for a lot of people right now. Adding insult to injury is how they hyped Eureka up beforehand and talked how long the content had been in production.

So the whole "Don't get the relic." Spiel falls completely flat.

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Is a flat spiel because its a flat complain.

The worst content I can imagine is how the old relics requeriments had. I liked the relics. I disliked how to get them. I simply did not get any of them. Why I would to play something I don't like?

Even now: I like Eureka, but I dislike bunny fates so much. There is a mount inside them, I wont farm. I wont get the mount nor other items here.

About hyped Eureka, 0 complains here. It was SE fault to not explain it well/and do it better. Hopely, I like grindfest.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I actually like the idea of Eureka as the overworld. XIV's current overworld has always been one of my complaints. It's just so damn boring. And safe. I've not played extensively in Eureka, but it seems like mobs trail you a lot longer (do they ever de-aggro?) and hit quite a bit harder at level.

Would be interesting if the overworld actually could spawn NMs, although with the way this playerbase complains about hunts and people stealing things, we may not be able to handle it.

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We had that in XI. This is one of those things people really like for a while and then it becomes tedious and boring. Trying to reach a spot for a quest and having to dodge mobs isn't that fun. Then people figure out ways to avoid it and then the devs add in warp points.

I think the devs are desperately trying to scrape up some form of content that’s easy to make, easy to copy-paste assets into and will be enjoyed by most. They’re trying so hard (too hard) to create content that will be an easy success, with little resource use, and as many players doing it as possible.

Obviously they’ll never find it because such a thing doesn’t exist. It’s already begun to show for a while now that the developers want to be lazy. Come next expansion, will they only be able to cope with a single dungeon per patch? No new expansion jobs? More sleep inducing copy-paste dungeons?

Even Eureka could have been really fun, but it’s very clear (to me at least) that they put minimal effort into creating all it. Large swathes of the content is copy-pasted monsters with high HP and very little else. Having monsters either insta-kill you or hit you like a wet noodle isn’t the point of a ‘dangerous overworld’. And of course, why create any new mechanics for the content when they can just copy-paste FATEs from other areas of the game.

I wonder how difficult it is for them to copy and paste a pre-existing fate from the overworld into Eureka then tweak the damage potencies and HP to appropriate levels.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not personally bothered by stuff like asset reuse, efficiency is key in any business. But when it’s done as lazily as it is here, not only are we seeing the same monsters over and over again, but they’re just as boring every time. I can’t remember the last time I saw an enemy that wasn’t a boss do something other than auto-attack. They might throw out a generic orange cone aoe, but that’s hardly new or innovative, and in most cases it means little if you actually get hit. Why have enemies like this exist in the first place? Just because they’re so called ‘trash mobs’ doesn’t mean I have to spend all the time I’m fighting them so bored that I start wondering which game I should play instead of XIV

The amount the developers are ‘capable’ of outputting gets gradually less and less as time goes on. I worry that the developers will never realise that people want substantial and fun content, not easily produced conveyor belt formulaic content that can be predicted months and months in advance.

It’s like they’re terrified of trying to do something new. I have this sneaking suspicion that the majority of the next expansion will can already be predicted with at least decent accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Bal_Siegskeith

Is a flat spiel because its a flat complain.

The worst content I can imagine is how the old relics requeriments had. I liked the relics. I disliked how to get them. I simply did not get any of them. Why I would to play something I don't like?

Even now: I like Eureka, but I dislike bunny fates so much. There is a mount inside them, I wont farm. I wont get the mount nor other items here.

About hyped Eureka, 0 complains here. It was SE fault to not explain it well/and do it better. Hopely, I like grindfest.

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Even pre-nerfs, you can obtain ARR and HW relics just doing what you normally do day in, day out. When you really think about them, once you get past an initial RNG gate, you're basically feeding this questline a ridiculous amount of tomes and time. Do your roulettes and run the dungeons and trials it tells you to, and it's yours if you just give it time. So if you say you dislike how to get them, you're basically saying that you were not willing to spend the time, and/or you don't really like PvE content.

It's simple to say, "If you don't like it, don't do it." But that dismisses the overwhelmingly number of complaints about Eureka. People are not really saying it sucks that the relics are gated behind Eureka, they're saying Eureka itself sucks, making getting your relic there even more of a suckfest.

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Originally Posted by tdb

The OP mentions some Eureka-specific aspects but it could also apply to SB as a whole. HW started off with the Scions being exiled to Ishgard following the betrayal in Ul'dah, it had Ysayle's character development from villain to hero and eventual sacrifice, all the political turmoil in Ishgard, Estinien's battle of wills against Nidhogg and treating with the dragons who were at best reluctant to help humans. Compared to all that depth SB is a much more traditional "let's liberate a country or two" story. It seems the focus was more on the varied and exotic environments. I think it's picking up again in the recent patches though.

Still, I was sufficiently entertained by the 4.0 story, even with all the running around it had. The Naadam was completely epic even if a little predictable. The scene with Lyse attending to dying Conrad after the destruction of Specula Imperatoris made me feel genuine sadness. Fordola seems to be somewhat of this expansion's Ysayle, although we didn't interact with her all that much. I'm really hoping we see some kind of conclusion to her story, if not in 4.5 then in the next expansion.

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The exoticness is SB only saving grace for me. Getting to visit Final Fantasy Japan, China, and Mongolia was a treat. Kugane is the most beautiful hub city in a MMORPG I've ever seen and getting to run around as a Samurai has been very fun. But I agree, the story is so very shallow, the kind of good vs evil stories that were interesting to children but not to High Schoolers or older. Heavensward at least was very well written, where everyone had an understandable motive, which made the war so tragic.
The Empire, still possesses no motives beyond World Domination. Their diplomats are incapable of being diplomatic and their Viceroys incapable of actually running a country. Nothing the Empire says can be trusted, which is really quite frustrating because that means we can never "talk" with the Empire or understand them. They will always be that evil Empire that did those evil things because they were evil. It wont even matter if they were puppets of the Asciens, we've seen that nearly every Imperial enjoys their evil work, it's a part of their culture, their mindset. If SE tries to pull a "they were nice guys all along, or they had their just reasons all along" twist I'm going to vomit.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

First of all, you need to realise not everyone is an elite level skilled player like you. You are way above the curve. For most, this game is not "so easy it can be rofl stomped first time every time". For most, this game is plenty challenging.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

You have to face the fact that the majority of players can't play at your level, and that your level is beyond what the created content requires.

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No where is he saying that you have to play at his level, though. He's simply saying that the game needs to stop holding people's hands, which many people over the years have agreed with. Players shouldn't be rewarded for playing subpar, but they are because the content is incredibly easy and simple that individual performance doesn't matter. And, as a result of the easy content, "challenging" content like Nidhogg or Shinryu become way harder than needed to be because the game didn't properly ready the players for those encounters.

We can still keep the casual and lean-backed experience that XIV provides, while at the same time providing somewhat of a challenge to the majority of the playerbase, especially if doing that will, hopefully, increase the skill level of the community.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Even the story leading to Eureka feels clunky. The whole thing feels like another game which I suppose is the idea mechanic wise but lore wise? It feels so half-baked. Although I haven't seen how it will conclude, I'm not holding my breath given how our lore for HoH literally came to 1 cutscene from a tree. A TREE.

I've felt no heart or soul in any of the content pass 4.0
Everything feels lazy and disconnected/or loosely tied.

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My favorite part of Eureka is when I thought something interesting would happen, but then Krile sent me to collect rocks near a oneshotting mob for the 50th time.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I actually like the idea of Eureka as the overworld. XIV's current overworld has always been one of my complaints. It's just so damn boring. And safe.

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I think a lot of people would quit this game if the overworld was even close to Eureka. You would create a new kind of boring by making it harder for no reason. I for one, have been there, done that. It was called FFXI; a game you can't even get back into without studying up for two months first. I don't have time for it anymore. People complaining about missing/wanting FFXI? It's exactly what they got with Eureka, only without the systems FFXI had for fighting. So instead it's just constant smashing of buttons. The irony of people hating it is just proof positive the devs hit the nail on the head. There is no reason to meander through an overworld where it takes several minutes to kill one mob, and pray for something to happen. That in itself is boring.

Just because a mob has a lot of HPs and high attack, doesn't make it "dangerous." That's pure laziness in creating a false sense of mob strength, and just makes them boring. The devs counteract that with dungeon bosses/trials by adding mechanics. Compare trash mobs to NMs in Eureka, or trash to boss in dungeons, and tell me which one is more exciting to fight. Which are more creative ways to demonstrate mob strength? Adding HPs, or adding mechanics? Because I seriously doubt you would get a lot of mechanics added to overworld trash mobs. You'd just get high HP boring mobs to hack through. And as for NMs? Again, people are extremely vocal about hating the rng stacked on rng in this game already. Again... FFXI.

I seriously think Eureka is a veiled attempt to show players what they DON'T want. Yes, a few like it. Many just do it because it's content/relic step, or they gotta have them loots. But a large portion of the player base are very vocal about not liking it, even while doing it. I doubt they would like Eureka as their new overworld. It would be a complete slog fest, with very little to no reward.

Right now there is a slight challenge as you progress through new zones of the overworld. Then it's like you have conquered those zones and moved on. That's balanced. Why would you want to struggle fighting mobs every time you visit a zone? For two years?! If Eureka wasn't level capped, it would be the same thing going back to Anemos right now, as it would be going back to ARR zones. But even now it's still "challenging" and yet it's still pretty much dead for lack of reward. And they even killed it further, I think, by scrapping AF upgrades, and moving to role-based armor. Imagine going back to HW zones and being capped at 60, with a low ilvl cap to match. It would be tedious to get anything done. Constant aggro by mobs you'd otherwise ignore. Or trying to do a FATE, and having morons pull 5-10 same-level, AoE spamming mobs right into the middle of it. That would be your new "Eureka" overworld.

Just think for a minute about what you're asking for:
-High hp/att mobs that just absorb hits. Because you like smashing buttons more than you do now?
-Mobs that chase you longer. Because you like running longer to get away? Because it's "fun" to get to an objective only to be chased back to the start by a mob that turns around at the last second?
-Mobs that can one-shot you. Because it's "fun" to get somewhere after walking for several minutes, just to accidentally walk a little too fast and die?
-Very little to no reward from those mobs. Because most are just trash mobs put there to make the zone appear living.
-Overworld NMs. Because you like farming for an hour or two, beating on those high hp/att mobs, just to have the NM taken by another party? Or better yet, die to a few overpowered adds?
-Stacked rng on said NMs. Because you like pointless grinds based on luck? If A drops B, and C does D, and E is up, then D + B gives .2% chance for L to drop to 1 person in party. L cannot be traded.

I'm really struggling to see anything positive coming from a "more dangerous" overworld. Especially having to slog through that overworld for two years (or longer), day in and day out. It would be like Eureka with your only escape being logging out. Who in their right mind wants that?! You think people who barely touch the overworld now, would do it more if they had to deal with that on top of it?

There's only one reason an overworld becomes empty, and that is simply having nothing rewarding to do in it. Not because it's too easy to kill the mobs. Making it harder just complicates things, and makes it even more trivial. Just think of any RPG with mob scaling, and how annoying it is to go back and farm what used to be a level 1 mob. It's not rewarding. It's just an annoyance. I'd rather have more to do in the zones, than have them "dangerous." Even fetch quests would be something.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

ARR leading to an even better HW, then down hill slightly with SB. Ok, HW was a tough act to follow.
But how have we come to the current situation?
Mindlessly walking past fields of mobs from one, no mechanic NM spawn, to the next. Meaningless one shot mechanics. Even if you are unlucky enough not to get a res, it just means you do more of the above.
Where has the depth gone? Where has the brilliant storytelling? Where has your drive gone SE?
When did you start to think ftp type content was a good thing in FFXIV?
What convinced you that it was fine to take your foot off the pedal, shift down into idle mode for this great game?
I ask you, please, get back to those previous heights. Hire fresh blood if necessary. Make this game as great as it was. A heartfelt request.

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Okay I'm starting to see alot of the HW was great stormblood feels terrible posts. So let me ask where are you getting that from? Eureka? Side content that is a better Diadem? Not by much but it's still better than diadem. I remember everyone complaining about no depth to diadem and that's your reasoning for stormblood not being as good as HW? Heavensward was a great expansion but so is stormblood with its powerful story fun nostalgic raids with a new twist in an original boss. If Eureka is your only complaint for SB not being as good then I will redirect you to diadem and you can take the time explaining how great that was.

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Originally Posted by Talonk

Okay I'm starting to see alot of the HW was great stormblood feels terrible posts. So let me ask where are you getting that from? Eureka? Side content that is a better Diadem? Not by much but it's still better than diadem. I remember everyone complaining about no depth to diadem and that's your reasoning for stormblood not being as good as HW? Heavensward was a great expansion but so is stormblood with its powerful story fun nostalgic raids with a new twist in an original boss. If Eureka is your only complaint for SB not being as good then I will redirect you to diadem and you can take the time explaining how great that was.

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Well, as someone who's been here since 2.1, I will throw in my two cents... [minor spoilers ahead if you aren't caught up on story]

ARR was a great starting point. The game changed a heck of a lot from start to finish and it laid a solid foundation. The dev team experimented a bit to find out what players wanted to do, learned from a lot of mistakes that haven't since been repeated, and started kicking the story into gear by the end of the expac.
HW built a bit on what ARR started and added some popular new things like PotD and normal mode 8-man raids, had a phenomenal story for MMO standards, and was all-around satisfying by focusing on content meant for everyone being able to enjoy. Gordias and the drought between 3.0-3.1 weren't repeated. Diadem... well. At least gatherers had a cool place to get rare mats.
SB has been HW with less of the same and a lot of niche content that didn't have wide appeal. Perform, Canals, Eureka, Ultimate, PvP... all content for a small subsection of people, and most of it met with indifference or outright hostility. While dungeons were never exciting content, losing some content everyone does to gain nothing in return for most players is pretty bad. I think the only content that was met with joy was Ultimate and they actually canned the last planned fight in that series to do... something? We don't know. And honestly I feel like the story is lacking. Liberating Ala Mhigo in 20 minutes was lame, Yotsuyu's entire arc felt contrived, and only now are things finally getting interesting with Alphinaud the Burn but we have to keep trudging around Eorzea/Othard to find out why the Scions are being put on a bus again...

Eureka gets multiple concurrent complaint threads because it was supposed to be tentpole content and SE stuck the relic weapon behind it. Unfortunately SE doesn't seem to realize that 1. Players are tired of FATEs as content, 2. Old-school mob grinds died for a damn good reason, 3. RNG on RNG on RNG is not fun, just frustrating. If 5.x is still more like this then I think the game might run into some problems.

Square Enix seem to be having a bit of a meltdown at the moment. I doubt FFXIV is high on their list of priorities.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Well, as someone who's been here since 2.1, I will throw in my two cents... [minor spoilers ahead if you aren't caught up on story]

ARR was a great starting point. The game changed a heck of a lot from start to finish and it laid a solid foundation. The dev team experimented a bit to find out what players wanted to do, learned from a lot of mistakes that haven't since been repeated, and started kicking the story into gear by the end of the expac.
HW built a bit on what ARR started and added some popular new things like PotD and normal mode 8-man raids, had a phenomenal story for MMO standards, and was all-around satisfying by focusing on content meant for everyone being able to enjoy. Gordias and the drought between 3.0-3.1 weren't repeated. Diadem... well. At least gatherers had a cool place to get rare mats.
SB has been HW with less of the same and a lot of niche content that didn't have wide appeal. Perform, Canals, Eureka, Ultimate, PvP... all content for a small subsection of people, and most of it met with indifference or outright hostility. While dungeons were never exciting content, losing some content everyone does to gain nothing in return for most players is pretty bad. I think the only content that was met with joy was Ultimate and they actually canned the last planned fight in that series to do... something? We don't know. And honestly I feel like the story is lacking. Liberating Ala Mhigo in 20 minutes was lame, Yotsuyu's entire arc felt contrived, and only now are things finally getting interesting with Alphinaud the Burn but we have to keep trudging around Eorzea/Othard to find out why the Scions are being put on a bus again...

Eureka gets multiple concurrent complaint threads because it was supposed to be tentpole content and SE stuck the relic weapon behind it. Unfortunately SE doesn't seem to realize that 1. Players are tired of FATEs as content, 2. Old-school mob grinds died for a damn good reason, 3. RNG on RNG on RNG is not fun, just frustrating. If 5.x is still more like this then I think the game might run into some problems.

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The same could be said about the heavensward story. The warriors of darkness are was one whole patch. That was it short sweet and uninteresting only to reveal a job coming in the next expansion. Then after that we started following the ala mhigan resistance for the rest of the expansion while trudging around eorzea waiting for the scions to get on the bus. So I mean by all means the story is in the same format as was stopping Thordan, tho I'll give you this building up to nidhogg was really good. But other than that heavensward is no where near outstanding.

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Originally Posted by Ilyrian

Square Enix seem to be having a bit of a meltdown at the moment. I doubt FFXIV is high on their list of priorities.

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Yeah, there's a good possibility that we will get even less, and of even lesser quality in the coming patches/expansion. They've got some work to do after losing about 30 million dollars. For them, or other big name companies it might not seem like much, but it's definitely not a number to scoff at either.