Crystal Tower

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

open world as long as there is limitations that would prevent a zerg fest. i read a thread yesterday about 56 people zerging the SH for NM kills. I don't think the most challenging content in game should be approached this way.

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That's not bad actually. The mayhem ensuing when you throw that many people on something is always insanely fun and doesn't get old easily^^ It's also spot on on the MMO mentality. LOTS of people together.

woot, i updated my suggestion after i saw you revived this thread ^^

A mix between the two could work as noted, you need instance for balance, just look at the "invasion events" we have. The main baddy gets pwned in 10 seconds cause 50+ are just ripping him to shreds lol. Kinda like, there could be baddies outside/in tower you have to fend off in order to unlock certain instances but if you don't keep the horde at bay then you may lose access to certain instances til you succeed in fending them off in the open world.

Castle Zvahl {Can I have it!}

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Originally Posted by Decconi

Castle Zvahl {Can I have it!}

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That's too open world, we can't have that!

How about a open world dungeon with closed doors? You need to get a key from a specific mini boss to unlock the door (but only for you and your party). And the further you progresses in the dungeon the lesser the crowd get, because they need to win the claim war for the next door first ^^

And the end boss is behind the last door and it can't be unlock while there is already a party behind.

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Originally Posted by Felis

How about a open world dungeon with closed doors? You need to get a key from a specific mini boss to unlock the door (but only for you and your party). And the further you progresses in the dungeon the lesser the crowd get, because they need to win the claim war for the next door first ^^

And the end boss is behind the last door and it can't be unlock while there is already a party behind.

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I'm fine with stuff like that, heck mix the open dungeon with instanced areas, that's fine, cool, just don't make everything cool instanced.

Crystal tower in concept just screams Nyzul isle, I can't see it not being instanced.

Some stuff is fine instanced and this sounds like a concept better placed in a instance than open-world. Wouldn't mind it having some elements outside of the instance though like quests that are unlocked the higher up you climb.

Oh, I really hope it houses a boss gauntlet ala FFIII. Member dies on the second boss of four? They're gone for the remainder of the sequence~ Would make for some awesome 'skin of your teeth' style encounters!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I am also hoping it's going to be part of the world, not something that you go in for a few hours and be done with it, rinse and repeat. I want something to explore with everyone or go in there solo and test my skills. I want a challenge to get to the top that might take a month or so for the best players.

I cannot see that happening if it was instanced. What would you guys want instanced or open world. Or maybe a mix of both?

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Sorry, what you said seems to be contradicting. If it was not instanced, there would be more players and so the content would be easier?
Stronghold is open world but its not very interesting if you take a bunch of players in and zerg (the point of open world?).

I hope crystal tower would be something like the LABYRINTH OF TIME from FF1 remake, where you put restrictions/debuffs on your party to increase reward (or the time before the better exit portal closes in the case of FF1). Then a boss at the end depending on how hard you made it on yourself with the restrictions/debuffs.

It's instanced.

I think stuff like this should be instanced. An instance climb to the top with teamwork and skill with the party/alliance you go with. If it's open world and have specific instanced rooms I feel like it will just be filled with trash mobs multiple parties/alliances can just spank and get to that room. This especially if it is going to be 'the place to go'; so many people will be there. I am a fan of open world content, and it has its place...but this...I wouldn't be too sure about it if it wasn't instanced. That's just my opinion though.

Oh and the content finder of course...

I hope to god it is instanced, or at least the sections requiring actual content are. What is fun about 40+ people charging around, killing things before I even have a chance to get to it? If we wanted that, we could go to beastmen strongholds.

I heard Crystal tower is a dungeon with no savepoint from FF III. Maybe if the whole party dies, they return outside the tower, need to clear it again.

My only hope for crystal tower is no time limit.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

My only hope for crystal tower is no time limit.

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Instanced content = Time limit, period lol. This is why the tower should be open world and if there's bosses they can do it BCNM style where there's certain sections of a floor you go to to initiate a boss fight.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Instanced content = Time limit, period lol.

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How do you figure?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Instanced content = Time limit, period lol. This is why the tower should be open world and if there's bosses they can do it BCNM style where there's certain sections of a floor you go to to initiate a boss fight.

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But only if you can't raise someone outside your party. Don't forget, no savepoint in the original tower. If the party dies, they need to start the whole tower new.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

How do you figure?

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A while back a rep said time limits served multiple purposes, mostly to prevent people from hogging space. So while the timer serves purpose of adding in speed run rewards etc it also serves as a 'balance' mechanic overall.

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Originally Posted by Felis

But only if you can't raise someone outside your party. Don't forget, no savepoint in the original tower. If the party dies, they need to start the whole tower new.

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Yeah, so once you die it's back to floor 1 with you unless you're me and didn't save prior to even reaching CT then it's back to 12 hours ago.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

How do you figure?

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Server bloat. If they do not include a time-limit, it would be entirely possible for the entire FFXIV population to camp out in individual instances at the same time; and they would have to plan for that. Which is entirely impractical from a hardware perspective. You need something that limits the flow of players through instanced content or else the servers will explode under the strain.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Server bloat. If they do not include a time-limit, it would be entirely possible for the entire FFXIV population to camp out in individual instances at the same time; and they would have to plan for that. Which is entirely impractical from a hardware perspective. You need something that limits the flow of players through instanced content or else the servers will explode under the strain.

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WoW's instances don't have time limits, and they seem to do okay.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

WoW's instances don't have time limits, and they seem to do okay.

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That's interesting, I wonder how they managed it. Server strain under large numbers of instances is a very real problem, so the fact that they solved it is quite fascinating. So, in theory, every person in WoW could enter their own instance and stand there forever, regardless of how many other people have their own instances?

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

WoW's instances don't have time limits, and they seem to do okay.

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WoW is WoW and XIV is 1.0, the current system most likely puts a lot of strain on the system so something that may look simple in WoW such as multiple instances isn't possible with the way the game is currently setup. When 2.0 comes around they may be able to change "challenges" from speed runs to something else by allowing more people to enter said instance. As it stands now however speed runs and such are used to alleviate the instance server strain so that people breeze through events quicker so that other get the chance to do events without being limited by the limiting instances allowed.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Crystal tower in concept just screams Nyzul isle, I can't see it not being instanced.

Some stuff is fine instanced and this sounds like a concept better placed in a instance than open-world. Wouldn't mind it having some elements outside of the instance though like quests that are unlocked the higher up you climb.

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I don't see why they couldn't mix em together in this Tower, i think it would be fun.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

WoW's instances don't have time limits, and they seem to do okay.

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That would make things a lot nicer :) Its the speed runs and rushing that I can't stand in XIV >_<

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

That would make things a lot nicer :) Its the speed runs and rushing that I can't stand in XIV >_<

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That's why they should just mimic Nyzul Isle (not uncharted), 30 minutes total, different objectives each floor (though can repeat.) I like fighting mobs in dungeons.

Speed Runs I can understand being a bonus..but as a requirement eh..

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

That would make things a lot nicer :) Its the speed runs and rushing that I can't stand in XIV >_<

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I have a feeling even if speed runs were eliminated, nothing would change all that much. Groups would still push through dungeons as fast as they can because the faster you burn through it, the faster you can do it again for another shot at drops.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

That's interesting, I wonder how they managed it. Server strain under large numbers of instances is a very real problem, so the fact that they solved it is quite fascinating. So, in theory, every person in WoW could enter their own instance and stand there forever, regardless of how many other people have their own instances?

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They handled it the same way FFXIV does. Doesn't allow any more instances to be created past X number of instances. Before cross-world parties, many lowbie instances hit cap and you had to run back and forth across the zone in until a party left to get their spot.

However their instance's are on separate servers than the world server, and possible groups several worlds together on the same instance servers. I am unsure if FFXIV's are ran on a separate server or their worlds server but since some worlds had hit instance capacity and others didn't, they probably just run on the same server as the world. Separating that would make more space and speed up instance connections probably but cost more money and they'd need to develop the coding to do that.

Ah good to know, for a second I thought someone had broken physics. Writing code to transfer tasks between physical servers isn't terribly difficult. Really the trouble is the cost of the hardware.

If you make drop rates normal, and increase instance timer to 1 week, you can still spend the same relative amount of time (in terms of length) farming (1 month ish) to get at least 1 piece of your gear, and possibly additional pieces.

That's what WoW does. Instead of punishing people who can't do the same raid 10 times in a row each day to even get a shot at drops, they make the drop rate normal and extend content by increasing instance timers.

I think a system that actually drops the items without needing to spam it, is much more amenable to a player in terms of fun and replay factor.

Requiring a speed run to get chests is also silly. I think it's fine for Relic items, but not really as a limiter to what a group of people will get to experience/obtain