"So, with the last patch, we didn't really increase the NM spawn rate"

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Hahahahaha, so much doom. Let me add the positive note, as I couldn't disagree more with tons of the comments I'm reading. I for one really enjoyed the interview, it did make me excited about future content. Yoshida hints at having surprises, and most importantly, he wants to dedicate efforts into making the world more alive, worth living in. That's righ up my alley.

Also, his comments about how Pagos hasn't been figured out yet made me interested, as I see that mindless chaining isn't the only way to do that content (I haven't been doing it because I don't like the chains, but might start again if the train is back).

And yes, that the tomestones formula is still there doesn't mean that we aren't getting different kinds of content. Eureka doesn't look like anything we had before, mind you. People want new things, more grindy, less grindy, more lasting, faster, easier, more difficult, now it's not different enough, now it's too different/old stuff is better... This is a bit crazy. in the end, people need to accept that not every piece of content is going to cater to their personal needs, and that there's always someone enjoying the kind of content you personally don't like.

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QFT.
I always feel like SE has already entered a spiral of doom catering to the community like this at all, because you just can't please everybody, but them trying seems to make things even worse (at least that's the impression the forum leaves). Everytime.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

in the end, people need to accept that not every piece of content is going to cater to their personal needs, and that there's always someone enjoying the kind of content you personally don't like.

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That's okay, but when you only get one or two types of content per patch, it means players can go a long period of time without anything new. If you don't like pagos, you only have rath ex as any form of new, long-lasting content for more than a month.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Eureka doesn't look like anything we had before, mind you. People want new things, more grindy, less grindy, more lasting, faster, easier, more difficult, now it's not different enough, now it's too different/old stuff is better... This is a bit crazy. in the end, people need to accept that not every piece of content is going to cater to their personal needs, and that there's always someone enjoying the kind of content you personally don't like.

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Eureka is just Diadem.

And the key to meeting all of those demands at the same time is to develop multiple types of content, not try to cram it all into one.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

That's okay, but when you only get one or two types of content per patch, it means players can go a long period of time without anything new. If you don't like pagos, you only have rath ex as any form of new, long-lasting content for more than a month.

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And that might be unfortunate, but it's not SE's fault that there are different kinds of players with different tastes. For the record, I don't do Pagos either, just like I barely touched the previous relics, but neither do I see doom everytime SE releases content aimed at other people. I just recognize that this isn't my kind of content, and either focus on the things I find more enjoyable or simply wait for the next patch/event.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Eureka is just Diadem.

And the key to meeting all of those demands at the same time is to develop multiple types of content, not try to cram it all into one.

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Well, I actually enjoyed Diadem, and also the Anemos train. On the other hand, I'm not touching Pagos' chain method with a stick. Maybe it'll get nerfed if absolutely no one likes it, why not? I just can see why SE made this kind of content to start with; every other relic quest has been a grind fest because some people just like that kind of torture, so the level of accomplishment is higher once they reach their goal. The content isn't forced on anyone (you don't really need the relic), so I'm cool with it. To each their own.

They do develop multiple types of content. Pagos was released together with the Monster Hunter trial, a few days before the summer event, and the previous month we got HoH. How is SE's fault if someone happens not to enjoy or appreciate any of the content they're releasing? There's no magic formula to please everyone.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

They do develop multiple types of content. Pagos was released together with the Monster Hunter trial, a few days before the summer event, and the previous month we got HoH. How is SE's fault if someone happens not to enjoy or appreciate any of the content they're releasing? There's no magic formula to please everyone.

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But HoH is just PotD. Something that we already had. I loved PotD and I see no reason for HoH to exist.

MH trial, like all trials, is a one and done. I do appreciate that it's different, though.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

And that might be unfortunate, but it's not SE's fault that there are different kinds of players with different tastes. For the record, I don't do Pagos either, just like I barely touched the previous relics, but neither do I see doom everytime SE releases content aimed at other people. I just recognize that this isn't my kind of content, and either focus on the things I find more enjoyable or simply wait for the next patch/event.

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No, it is, however, SE's fault when they release bare bones content and wonder why people are upset. You say Eureka is different, but what does it do differently? We're essentially killing brainless trash mobs endlessly. They couldn't even be bothered to put in a decent story arc. What is there can be summarized as "ask other players where this location is!" Pagos is the epitome of lazy design, which is why people aren't thrilled with how the patches have been. Even if they had done something different you wouldn't see quite the backlash.

It isn't doom and gloom to criticise something. For a great many people, FFXIV simply hasn't been delivering.

What pissed me off is the comment about how mutations are supposed to be the most efficient way of levelling, yet the system they created specifically for Eureka isn't even remotely capable of handling that kind of mechanic. I'm talking about the magia board and how you're limited to 5 swaps, but no let's make the best way to level force you to swap elements constantly, oh wait you can't swap now cos the last 2 mobs mutated now your tank is taking 20k autos.

Do you even think they play test this pile of shit?

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Do you even think they play test this pile of shit?

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clearly no, it seems like no one at the dev team didn't bothered to test it on real time and instead of that seems like they tested each mechanic individually, you know, similar as how they tested the first raid of alexander on hw

Seems another adjustment is in order cause if we were to compare anemos and pagos reward system, pagos is simply not fun at all.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

And that might be unfortunate, but it's not SE's fault that there are different kinds of players with different tastes. For the record, I don't do Pagos either, just like I barely touched the previous relics, but neither do I see doom everytime SE releases content aimed at other people. I just recognize that this isn't my kind of content, and either focus on the things I find more enjoyable or simply wait for the next patch/event.

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With regards to Pagos, the vast majority of players are not satisfied with the content. There’s an issue when a major selling feature of your expansion appeals only to a minority—Eureka, as was Shirogane housing, were both advertised as main features of Stormblood. We saw the outrage surrounding Shirogane’s 4.1 release; and now we’re seeing the dissatisfaction surrounding Pagos.

It’s not “doom and gloom” to be dissatisfied with stale or lackluster content releases.

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Well, I actually enjoyed Diadem, and also the Anemos train. On the other hand, I'm not touching Pagos' chain method with a stick. Maybe it'll get nerfed if absolutely no one likes it, why not? I just can see why SE made this kind of content to start with; every other relic quest has been a grind fest because some people just like that kind of torture, so the level of accomplishment is higher once they reach their goal. The content isn't forced on anyone (you don't really need the relic), so I'm cool with it. To each their own.

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Very few players enjoyed Diadem; it has to be the only content the developers have actively contemplated shutting down. Diadem is the only content in this game that has successfully flopped not once, but twice.

As for previous relics, yes, they were grindfests, but at least they had variety. And at least they weren’t released so late that they were completely invalidated and overshadowed by prior gear releases. Previous relics could at least be used as progression, but the Pagos weapons cannot—in less than a month, i380 gear will be released, invalidating the relic more than it has already been invalidated.

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They do develop multiple types of content. Pagos was released together with the Monster Hunter trial, a few days before the summer event, and the previous month we got HoH. How is SE's fault if someone happens not to enjoy or appreciate any of the content they're releasing? There's no magic formula to please everyone.

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And Pagos + the MH Crossover are supposed to last us for 5~6 weeks until 4.4 releases. The events take 15~30 minutes max; they cannot be expected to last until the next event drops, or even the next patch. For example, I have 8 characters on Cactuar: I was able to do the Moonfire event on 5 of them in less than an hour, with watching cutscenes on 2 or 3 of them to get the different dialogue options.

No, there isn’t a magic formula to please everyone. But when you’re dissatisfying the majority with a centerpiece-type of content like Eureka/the Relic, there is a problem.

The problem is the ffxiv combat system isn't made to do hours of grinding. It's to rigid for that and to slow.
For this combat system to shine you need to be dodging mechanics while doing rotations.
Content like anemos or pagos will never be really good content because of this. If this was a hack and slash game i would have no issue grinding in there for hours. But it's not. You just end up standing there and either aoe or do a simple rotation on a mob that doesn't do anything to you.

Reminder that Eureka was one of the main selling points of Stormblood back in the first reveal at fan fest. Lol

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

"Back in FFXI, everyone worked together to figure out how to spawn NMs.

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This is not XI, Yoshida!