Character Creation Has A Race Problem

Afro option is at Gold saucer and then you can change it in game

But not in main character creator stops people making a complete new character without having to unlock hair styles

There is plenty of diversity in skin color just not in hair style

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Exactly. That’s what a lot of my friends want. Just throw in something with every patch instead of a million straight hair options.

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Pretty sure Highlanders have those things (hairstyles). Again, racial features are racial features. You are trying to cross racial features into races that dont have those features.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Some of you all really struggle to follow along. No wonder many can’t grasp moving out of red circles and to not spam Blizzard. I could’ve swore I said Hyur in the OP, and that’s what most have been discussing. Do try to keep up.

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It doesn't matter if you said Hyur, Miqo'te, Roe, or Lala...there are NO race problems in XIV. It's a race problem because you, personally, turned it into a race problem. This is not the Sims.

Oh... This thread finally happened. Was wondering when it was going to come up.

Ack, my post got cut off. While I somewhat understand what the OP is attempting to say, there isn't really a racial problem in this game... Not in the sense of underrepresentation of real life equivalents of ethnicities. Certain hairstyles just may not exist in ff14. At the end of the day, this is still a Japanese mmo, so it's really a moot point.

Hyurs are not Humans.

Hydaelyn is not Earth.

This is not the real life, it is in fact just Final Fantasy.

Otherwise, every individual who wants their character to look exactly like them has a valid argument for character creation options to match them simply because they want it. Can’t make everyone happy all of the time, which means sometimes you find yourself in the unhappy group.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

It doesn't matter if you said Hyur, Miqo'te, Roe, or Lala...there are NO race problems in XIV. It's a race problem because you, personally, turned it into a race problem. This is not the Sims.

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But it does matter, lmao. If I mentioned a Hyur, why would people be bringing up every other race, but? That showcases an inability to stay on topic. If my gripe was with the others, I would have mentioned the others. This doesn't have to be the Sims. Division, Guild Wars, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc all have sense enough to be inclusive as they are aware of their audience. I'm not gonna sit here and say they're the best at it, but the effort was made. Clearly the FFXIV community is not fond of inclusivity as evinced by the responses. So because you and a few others are fine with the way things are, and are represented, it's f--k everyone else; despite the fact they pay the exact same sub as you do. I already knew from the get-go there was going to be pushed back, because (1) I'm criticizing SE, and (2) people generally fail to see things from a perspective outside their own. There was even one guy who stupidly and wrongfully suggested that I want Europeans to look black, yet there are people on this thread suggesting that the black and brown gamers who pay the exact same sub, should be acquiescent and accept walking around as white-washed Hyurs that don't look like them. Maybe they don't like the other races aesthetically. While some people grasp the point I'm making, many can't grasp that double standard which is clearly indicative of an intellectual deficit. You literally lose nothing. If anything you gain as well. Hell, for all I know maybe there are people here who want to utilize those same types of customizations even if it doesn't reflect them IRL. A lot of black and brown gamers don't even speak up because of backlash like this, but I don't mind being the martyr, cause everybody can catch this virtual hands, lmao. Let's go.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

Hyurs are not Humans.

Hydaelyn is not Earth.

This is not the real life, it is in fact just Final Fantasy.

Otherwise, every individual who wants their character to look exactly like them has a valid argument for character creation options to match them simply because they want it. Can’t make everyone happy all of the time, which means sometimes you find yoursef in the unhappy group.

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But the community is able to make other complaints, which SE looks into and even adjusts in many instances, but when it comes to this particular one, suddenly it's invalid. Gotcha. No one is saying the character has to look exactly like them.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Ack, my post got cut off. While I somewhat understand what the OP is attempting to say, there isn't really a racial problem in this game... Not in the sense of underrepresentation of real life equivalents of ethnicities. Certain hairstyles just may not exist in ff14. At the end of the day, this is still a Japanese mmo, so it's really a moot point.

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It's not moot. SE shouldn't market it outside of Japan, and want subscribers outside of Japan if they aren't willing to represent their subscriber base. FFXIV should just be a strictly Japanese MMO.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

But it does matter, lmao. If I mentioned a Hyur, why would people be bringing up every other race, but? That showcases an inability to stay on topic. If my gripe was with the others, I would have mentioned the others. This doesn't have to be the Sims. Division, Guild Wars, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc all have sense enough to be inclusive as they are aware of their audience. I'm not gonna sit here and say they're the best at it, but the effort was made. Clearly the FFXIV community is not fond of inclusivity as evinced by the responses. So because you and a few others are fine with the way things are, and are represented

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How is a dark-skinned, white haired catgirl represented irl? You let me know. Also, you are blatantly assuming that I'm even white behind this screen. Real nice. That doesn't help your argument as much as you think it does honestly. You don't know me, you are blatantly assuming that I'm white simply because I'm calling you out on your ridiculous crusade. I never specified my skin tone and it's none yo business to know either.

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yet there are people on this thread suggesting that the black and brown gamers who pay the exact same sub, should be acquiescent and accept walking around as white-washed Hyurs that don't look like them. Maybe they don't like the other races aesthetically. While some people grasp the point I'm making, many can't grasp that double standard which is clearly indicative of an intellectual deficit. You literally lose nothing. If anything you gain as well. Hell, for all I know maybe there are people here who want to utilize those same types of customizations even if it doesn't reflect them IRL. A lot of black and brown gamers don't even speak up because of backlash like this, but I don't mind being the martyr, cause everybody can catch this virtual hands, lmao. Let's go.

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That is some leap of logic you've got there. Let me tell ya.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Some of you all really struggle to follow along. No wonder many can’t grasp moving out of red circles and to not spam Blizzard. I could’ve swore I said Hyur in the OP, and that’s what most have been discussing. Do try to keep up.

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Well aren't you rude. I was just poking in jest, but ya really gotta insinuate we're stupid and you're not.

Most people are on board with wanting more natural and wavy hair. That would be really nice. Almost all of my characters are black and I would kill for some curls to go with them. But, you made it into some sort of weird pseudo-race war thing. That's where you've lost people, including myself.

Don't get pissy when a single fictional race in a fictional world doesn't conform to real life. You can make beautiful dark skinned people from almost all the races in this game. Different faces have different structures, just like there is one Miqo'te face that has full lips that is very nice. If you wanna cry about diversity, try not being a pasty white moon cat and play in character creation a little longer.

Edit :

Something I whipped up in character creation in about 5 minutes to prove a point. She's very nice and I actually might use this face set up for a future character.

https://i.imgur.com/NxZWQbq.jpg

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Originally Posted by Nandina

It's not moot. SE shouldn't market it outside of Japan, and want subscribers outside of Japan if they aren't willing to represent their subscriber base. FFXIV should just be a strictly Japanese MMO.

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See, with this statement right here, it lets me know that you feel it's a race issue, when it's really not. This is a non issue. If you want to achieve a certain look, you have the options to do so. Limited options, yes, but it is still possible to get a look that your hoping could be representative

I think some of you are giving the OP a bit of a hard time for something not very complicated at all. While I wouldn't be opposed to more "African" features, I know they won't ever make it here because Yoshida said the character creator won't be updated any time soon. So we can lay that to rest. The lack of any kinky hairstyles is noticable and I think asking for more after this many years is a perfectly valid request.

We can start with making the Elezen female Fade cut, Midlander Frohawk, and Dreadlocks on female characters for all races and genders. There is no reason why men can't have locks. There is no reason why only Elezen women can cut their hair. There is no reason why only Midlanders can have a Frohawk when every race can have an Afro. Do away with these weird restrictions first and foremost, it would go a long way into making black-looking characters. Once that's dealt with what's the harm in adding more tightly twisted braids, cornrows, or a more shaggy haircut with kinky hair to the sea of straight hair we get in every single patch? Seriously. I get that 80% of the game is "white" but hey, it's difficult to make a "black" character so that could be why you don't see them as much.

Also, and most curiously, there ARE black people in Eorzea, plenty of them. I'm not sure why so many are saying or implying that they aren't in the game. I don't know what you guys are looking at. There are many black and "decidedly black" NPCs in game already. Sawney, that Gold Saucer guy with the gambler outfit, a completely random Skinchange GATE female NPC, many many NPCs in Gyr Abania which I'm guessing is where they come from, and I feel pretty certain that Raubahn is a black guy. Or "decidedly black". I'm not just talking about dark characters either because I know the "tan" excuse. I'm talking about the daarrk Hyur NPCs. The game lacks customization so it doesn't show it very well, it's no different than people from Othard(Asians clearly) looking straight up white. Devs had no issues adding Asian hairstyles though <.<.

In the end, I think people should lighten up a bit about this as there are no lore reasons against black people existing(they already do) and Yoshi still adds hairstyles. Give it a chance instead of trying to say it's political or that "we don't need it because this isn't Earth". Kugane obviously isn't Japanese. Those aren't Japanese people! Silly me. Ala Mhigo certainly isn't Middle Eastern. And Ishgard CERTAINLY isn't European. Give me a break.. let's not be sooo technical.

And lastly as a black person myself, I'd love to see more hairstyles compatible with a black character design opened up.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

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The problem that I'm positive that a lot of people are currently having with the OP is that they directed this thread into a racial issue. The very first response they made here included this statement:

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Originally Posted by Nandina

But I’m sure you’re represented and have no problems with the game reflecting you in real life, just not others

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They started off fine, but when something like this is said, they are just inviting themselves to criticism over an unnecessary response.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

They started off fine, but when something like this is said, they are just inviting themselves to criticism over an unnecessary response.

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This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

[...]
But the community is able to make other complaints, which SE looks into and even adjusts in many instances, but when it comes to this particular one, suddenly it's invalid. Gotcha. No one is saying the character has to look exactly like them.

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I never said your complaint was invalid, but okay, be hostile.

You are arguing that the game should have more options based on a lack of options that suit you. I am simply pointing out that the problem with this is that the basis of your complaint implies that the game needs to have every possible hairstyle and possible skin undertone possible for anyone who has the same complaint as you, unless you’re literally only asking SE to provide your personal request and not those of everyone else who wants more accurate features to match their rl selves but don’t have the same rl features as you.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones.

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Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game.

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There's not much in the 'standard human' pallette (Hyur/Wildwood/Sunseeker) but Lalafells seem to have more of a yellow range in their options. I'm not sure why they made that different.


However, the "lack of Asian faces in a Japanese game" suggests that whatever the source of the issue, it's not about "failing to represent other races because they are foreign". It's also a fantasy world that is (at least initially) set in a Europe-equivalent, so it does make sense for the characters to look more European - not that the 'Asian' Hyurans look any different once we get there.

For what it's worth, there doesn't seem to be an Africa equivalent, at least geographically - unless it's supposed to be Meracydia, but it's not connected by land to the other continents. (Also I've seen people say that Eorzea itself is meant to be Africa, based on the approximate shape of the continent, but that doesn't make sense culturally. Othard isn't shaped like Asia either.)

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Originally Posted by Nandina

But is a Hyur’s origin Europe? Think before you type. I’m not saying a European has to look like anything other than what they are. Careful you may dislocate your shoulder with that reach.

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It's not Earth, so how can we know? Maybe their origin doesn't mimic human origins on Earth. Again, there isn't an Africa for them to migrate out of, at least by a land route.

The lorebook information on Hyurans seems to say they came to Eorzea out of Ilsabard, and they're found across the Three Continents and the New World. (Again, information is lacking about Meracydia so they could be there as well, but we'll probably get to that sometime later.)

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Some of you all really struggle to follow along. No wonder many can’t grasp moving out of red circles and to not spam Blizzard. I could’ve swore I said Hyur in the OP, and that’s what most have been discussing. Do try to keep up.

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You said "red, grey and green people". Not Hyurans. The other races are still equally people. Hyurans' defining trait is being actually-kinda-boring and not venturing outside of (a subset of) real human traits. You pick a different race if you want unusual skin colours.

If you want to talk about lack of variety overall, you still need to look at all the options - otherwise you might be saying "I can't make my Hyur look like X" when actually you could have X if you used a different race. It depends which elements of the appearance are most important to you.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

I started out as a dark duskwight because I started in limsa as arcanist. At first I thought it was good because the map shows it's in southern hemisphere.
Then I looked around, with light green/blue seawolves and sunseekers. I switched to wildwood after I learned more about hydaelyn, particularly gelmorra (home of lots of duskwights) which I'm surprised was underground, also the darker tones live in forest and caves (why??). The lore doesn't really match climate with races or works the opposite logic in eorZea. Othard makes more sense with confederates living by the sea.

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Limsa is in the southern part of the map, but that's not the southern hemisphere - the map just shows northern-hemisphere continents. (Additionally, Sea Wolves originate from further north, and seem to be the Eorzean equivalent of Vikings.)

From what I remember of geography class, there's roughly a band of tropical climate around the equator, then desert either side, then temperate climate. Eorzea seems to be temperate with desert only in the southern region, plus Gyr Abania. (I wonder if the map is perfectly 'straight' or if there's some distortion going on. Or you can just blame it on aetherial states messing up geography or something, like Coerthas's eternal winter.)


But yes, skin tone does seem to be somewhat arbitrary - although despite having the option for Duskwights to have darker skintones, the few we actually see tend to be pale grey (eg. the researchers at Issom-Har in the South Shroud) or greyish-tan (possibly those that have been out in the sunlight more!). I can only think of seeing one really dark grey NPC, a Wood Wailer standing guard that progresses a quest when you speak to him, and isn't seen again after that.

For weirdness elsewhere, there's the few dark-skinned Ishgardian Elezen when most of the population are pale. It seems to be an individual/family trait rather than race-related.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

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Retaliating for what, though? That's literally the third response in the thread...the very first response was from a black individual sympathetic to their reasoning...so what in the world were they retaliating to?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You should probably look at highlander then.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

Too bulky.

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Now hang on, that was a perfectly viable suggestion, and in fact I think you'd find male and female highlanders have a lot more option to make traditionally "black" features, which you'd know if you weren't so deadset on forcing them into a subtype with a different design aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

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No one really shot down their ideas. Everyone seems to be on board with better character creation and more hairstyles, including those that are woefully under represented like wavy and curly. What people do not like the is the unnecessary aggression (see their response to my original post) and holier-than-thou WOKE AF attitude. There has been tons of threads simply asking for better black hairstyles and customization that weren't dripping with superiority that got very good responses.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Retaliating for what, though? That's literally the third response in the thread...the very first response was from a black individual sympathetic to their reasoning...so what in the world were they retaliating to?

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Everyone else. Notice how OurMom disagreed with OP but OP didn't get upset with OurMom. Again I'm not saying the attitude is good. It's definitely not a good way to debate or argue.

Both sides should offer up better arguments than what has been used so far. Because honestly? None of what anyone has said has made me think "Okay this legitimately can't happen for this or that reason".

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Everyone else. Notice how OurMom disagreed with OP but OP didn't get upset with OurMom. Again I'm not saying the attitude is good. It's definitely not a good way to debate or argue.

Both sides should offer up better arguments than what has been used do far. Because honestly? None of what anyone has said has made me think "Okay this legitimately can't happen for this or that reason".

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I agree. However, the tone of the thread had already been set by the OP when they posted their first response. We both know this - all it takes is one comment and the thread will descend into that direction, especially if the OP continues posting in a confrontational, aggressive, and/or haughty manner. This subject does interest me, but I don't think this thread will get anywhere constructive right now.

I suppose this is our yearly dose of tumblr idiocy. Last year the New World outfit apparently was cultural appropriation and the year before that we had Shark Fin stew.

While I'm all for more character creation options. Claiming FFXIV has a "race" problem is simply look for something to be offended by.

@ this topic:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...09/570/e0d.jpg

I pretty much cry every day in my mind that I’ll never get an Elezen Hyur like Hilda. I love my character but i really want those features.

Jesus Christ, these threads. Please don't let this become a trend.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDuck

@ this topic:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...09/570/e0d.jpg

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*Snap*

Yep...

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I will give you Lyse though. I complain about this all the time with my friend. That it seems like all Ala Mhigans are black or close to black except for... Lyse and Fordola. The two biggest Ala Mhigan characters. They are terrible characters anyways so again, don't need to get too worked up about it. It's just Yoshi-P doing Yoshi-P. He did the same thing to Lakshmi as well apparently.

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Lyse, Fordola and Minfilia. Ala Mhigans don't have really dark skin anyway, but they're definitely paler than most.

On the other hand, it seems that dark skin and light hair is at least a normal combination for the race - see Ilberd, who has naturally white hair (even in the flashback we see of him twenty years earlier).

If we can jump realities for a moment, the manga Fullmetal Alchemist also bases its geography roughly on the real world, and the equivalent-to-Highlander race is specifically defined by brown skin and pale hair. So maybe it's a weird Japanese-media thing. Either that or the FFXIV character designers are FmA fans. I suspect they might be.

If you want more hairstyles say you want more hairstyles. Don't turn this into a crusade.

I for one just wanted more hair styles. Gotta say though, some of you seemed to take having characters with Hebrew or black features negatively.

Duplicate my bad

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

I for one just wanted more hair styles. Gotta say though, some of you seemed to take having characters with Hebrew or black features negatively.

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I don't think people are disagreeing with idea of having those features, just the OP's way of expressing her desire for such.

It's hard to add a lot of facial diversity when your game doesn't make use of sliders for angles, sizes, width, depth etc. Sure you can have a lot of static models that you can switch between but that will always be limited by itself without sliders. Hair is another issue and I suspect part of the reason they haven't done more curly styles or braids is because they can't get it to look right or up to their standards. Or they may just not be exploring it, no idea.

Either way I think labeling it and making into a purely racial issue is heavy handed, and labeling facial features as "Black lips" or "white lips" etc is pretty unhelpful to any case you're trying to make when you're talking about race. It's not very hard to say fuller lips, wider noses, flatter noses and so on.

As for the skin tones themselves I've never had much an an issue with them, more would always be better but I've never felt too held back by what we have, but that's just me personally.
At the end of the day though I'm sure everyone would love more options, whether it's to make the character look more like themselves, or more options to make your own character, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

See, with this statement right here, it lets me know that you feel it's a race issue, when it's really not. This is a non issue. If you want to achieve a certain look, you have the options to do so. Limited options, yes, but it is still possible to get a look that your hoping could be representative

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If people use it being a Japanese MMO for their reasoning as to why there isn’t any diversity, and I respond that SE isn’t just marketing their MMO only to Japan, how can you sit up here and take umbrage when I reason that they should think about their audience outside of Japan? And if the options were available to do so, the thread wouldn’t exist.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I wouldn't say it has a race problem, as all the games races are pretty well represented, and you can choose your skin color to be whatever you want.

racial characteristics from the real world shouldn't apply, as the game doesn't denote races by color. Stop looking for racial issues where they don't exist, it makes it harder to fight for them where they do actually exist.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

They started off fine, but when something like this is said, they are just inviting themselves to criticism over an unnecessary response.

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If you were fine with how it started off, why were you fine with Valkyrie_Lenneth’s comment? This is why I mentioned real life, because Valkyrie_Lenneth mentioned the real world, and from there it somehow spiraled into me wanting my character to look EXACTLY like me in the real world, which isn’t the argument I made. I’m sure none of us could recreate ourselves, including those players who are white. But those players who are white could at least make a character who is noticeably white, even if the character doesn’t look like them. It’s like playing darts. Even if I don’t hit a bullseye, I at least want to hit the board if I’m going to be bothered to play. Meaning, that character doesn’t have to look 100% like me, but I at least would want the option to customize my character in a way I can at least relate to.

The retaliation comes from people saying this isn’t the real world, and using that to justify why other facial characteristics and hair types can’t be represented. So you mean to tell me that in a world where there are people noticeably inhuman with horns, tails, and scales; asking for kinky/curly hairstyles, other face types, and a non-ashy skin tone which could be done in a mere patch is asking for too much because this isn’t real life? Fine, SE is too lazy to implement the face changes, but it doesn’t justify the response about “this not being the real world”. Like obviously, lol. But that same reasoning isn’t applied when it comes time to explaining why Europoean features are the standard. SE literally patches the game all the time. Why can’t this be updated again?

This isn’t about just me. I’m speaking up for others, because the reality is there are other people who have the same complaints as me. I don’t know if you’re knowledgeable about makeup, but you can’t replicate for example a NC44 in Mac, or a 330 in Fenty with the in-game color grid, and many of the options are identical. If you go too far to the right, you get too dark; if you go too far to the left, you get too light. There’s no middle ground, which means that no, you can’t be any color you want. And with the options available, the undertones could at least be fixed when going vertically. People are walking through Eorzea covered in baby powder, lol.

But my question is why haven’t you disagreed with people using the real world as an argument against it, but then when I respond, you only say I’m making it about race, lol. I never denied anyone the right to be represented or spoke out against anyone’s representation, nor have I justified why anyone else shouldn’t be represented. That however happened to me, and that’s fucked. You and others, are trying to gaslight me. But it’s whatever. I stand by my points. The OP was actually pretty jokey hence my use of “dookie dreads” and “in severe need of lotion”. It was Valkyrie_Lenneth, who trivialized the point I made, and said that I was making it racial issue when there wasn’t one, and essentially speaking up unnecessarily. But you agreed with how I started off, but didn’t take issue with that. I guess. It was really me just saying, okay we need a few improvements here. I never called anyone racist, bigoted, or anything of the sort; if anything I simply highlighted an issue of underrepresentation. Using make up again as an example, there was a time when the different shades you see in a department store weren’t available. Did that make the department stores racist? No. In many of those instances, the department stores didn’t know black and brown women wore make up, so didn’t bother to release shades for them. When it was known, this changed and we have the current beauty industry we have today. Meaning, that maybe SE isn’t in touch with a significant portion of their player base, but if I or no one else speaks up, they’ll never implement changes. But when I did speak up, nearly everyone shot it down because “it isn’t the real world”.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

For the record, I don't have any problems with them adding customization options to character creation. I have a problem with people saying the game is racist because they can't choose specific features on their character on the race they want.

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No one said the game was racist. Your mind was so quick to go into defense mode, that you’re fighting against a claim no one made. It says “Character Creation Has A Race Problem”. What is that race problem? Underrepresentation. Underrepresentation isn’t racist in and of itself. Now if they were out here giving people Jinx and Mr. Popo lips, I’d say it was racist. So now people are acting like they don’t know what racism is or isn’t. I have not once claimed the game to be disparaging to a group of people, so wtf are you talking about? And clearly you do have an issue with added customization, because your response is that “it’s a fantasy game, why does it have to match humanity on racial features”. Please be consistent.

If anything, I said “So you mean to tell me that my black and brown friends are good enough to receive a subscription from, but not good enough to have the character creation cater to them as well?” I 100% stand by that, because common sense dictates that you cater to your audience, especially if they’re paying you. Using makeup as an example again, you would not open a Sephora in Lagos, Nigeria; but only have pale shades, and if you do have darker shades, you wouldn’t have it so that only 20% of the demographic can find something that matches them. That’s speaking to underrepresentation, not racism.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

snip.

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I'll continue to stand by your cause and I could relate to everything you've said. And I agree that "the real world" argument is a weak one, very weak. Fact is, in FFXIV, there are white people, there are asian people, and there are black people, few however. And Hyurs are humans. Just.. come on.

On another note, I noticed a lack ginger people as well! And curly/wavy non-african hairstyles. Those people are also left out.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

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Sorry to say but this game, or any game for that matter, doesn't need to be diverse or inclusive to anyone. This is a work of fiction and in being such can be whatever the creator intends it to be. Just because SE is marketing the game outside of Japan doesn't mean they need to cater to anyone. It's their product to do with as they please just like it's your money to support said product or not. It's called the free market for a reason. Just because other games may have "more diverse options" doesn't mean this game has to have them.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

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I haven't addressed valkyrie at all. Matter of fact, the only people I've responded to were you and Magic-Mal. I'm responding to you because you are the OP. The thing is, you say you want to hit at least hit the dart board... But you can. Hyur and Roes can... I've done it before I settled on Au Ra. Hairstyle is another issue that's not necessarily about race... More like, the devs probably just settled on hairstyles inspired by previous FF games, contests, and whatever probably felt popular. We all already know the nightmare in trying to get more hairstyles. You turned this into a racial thing when you initially said that the creation tools we had leans towards Caucasian aesthetics. You set that tone and everybody is reacting to that. I'm not everybody. But I do disagree about the whole underrepresentation thing that you keep claiming.

As a black person, I only create black characters unless there’s no option for it. Personally, it just makes me feel more comfortable playing something kinda like myself. While I would appreciate more ‘black’ hairstyles, it’s not a race issue. SE has been rather bad at adding a wide range of hairstyles overall.

Even though a game is fiction, so are other games, and they still manage to have a wide variety of styles - including some ‘black’ ones. Nevertheless I wouldn’t go around chanting that there’s purposely under-representation.

Today's character creator does not represent FFXIV successfulness.
I really would like them to invest more into it.
They can take money from FFXIV to make FF7 Remake, KH3 etc but can't make a proper character creator, ok.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

It's not moot. SE shouldn't market it outside of Japan, and want subscribers outside of Japan if they aren't willing to represent their subscriber base. FFXIV should just be a strictly Japanese MMO.

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XD HAHHA... life lesson Japanese companies only care about Japanese markets, they may advertise to global market but only consider themselves a failure if it fails in Japan. Much like mainly SE only make changes if the JP player-base is largely complaining, rarely do they do things when its the global players complaining.

Also it's a fantasy game & FF series is well known for being European in design of it's various worlds as most games are typically in medieval like times thus all knights & architecture design looking very European & comparing this to other MMOs is awful every MMO is varied in what focus on & what the CAN focus on, the XIV don't have liberties to add tonne of stuff without doing major overhaul to game on side which would take a resources/another team to fix if want keep XIV running at same time so expect 0 changes to character creator anytime soon.
This problem left to us of them just building off of 1.0 instead building from ground up.

It'd be nice have ton more options as big fan of character creators like BDO/Souls etc love more options but.. its just never going happen.

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Originally Posted by Nandina

So, I've been tempted to use a Fantasia, and change from Miqo'te, so I started playing around with the character creation, and the lack of diversity is abysmal. I wanted to make a Hyur female, but I can't help but notice there isn't much wiggle room. There's only one cute braided mohawk style, and some dookie dreads. Where are the curly or even kinky hair styles? There are no flat twists, no cornrows, no box braids, no senegalese twists, no two strand twists, etc. I thought there was an afro option, but I didn't see that either. Under the nose options, there's are no truly wider options (I'm not saying the nose has to take up the entire face). There are no larger fuller lips. Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones. Many of the little boxes on the skin color grid are virtually indistinguishable from the ones at least four spaces from them vertically, making them a waste. On brown skin tones, this makes the character appear ashy and in severe need of lotion. Skin tone alone is not diversity. Sure you can make your character Sudanese black, but if the nose and lips are slim and thin, is it really a black person? No.

Releasing multiple hairstyles is cute, but when are we going to get some new faces, noses, lips, and eyebrows that don't harken back to the late 90s and early 2000s? There's nothing wrong with a thicker brow. I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game. So you mean to tell me that my black and brown friends are good enough to receive a subscription from, but not good enough to have the character creation cater to them as well? I'm biracial (black mom, Russian dad) and while I'm not dark skinned I don't have thin lips and sharp facial features.

I already know some people are going to be in their feelings about this, and that's fine.

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OP, did you just look at Hyur midlander? I'd recommend female highlander, some of their character options have nice dark skintones, and some of the face options have decent sized lips. Sadly until they add more options, we gotta make the best with what we've got :) I have to agree though, and it's not just ffxiv, some of the dark skin tones look... weird, or off, I noticed that's it's the way the lighting is in some games (having played redguard in Skyrim). Have you tried using reshade within ffxiv? Tweaking that might improve skin tone.