Eureka NEEDS some changes to dissuade people from simply afking next to fatetrains

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Originally Posted by Ayirez

I straight up reported two players who were gathering via bot scripts, they're of the same FC and the telling part is how exact and precise their movements are, the fact that they follow a set path every single time, and that it's the exact same path shared between them.

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I imagine you're talking about the exact same people I'm thinking of that I've reported a few times over the last couple months.

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Originally Posted by saucyshortcake

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I imagine so,*coughFCLOL?cough* and if we've both reported them then I guess the rumors are true, SE doesn't care about gathering and pvp botters, they would rather make money than ban them. If so what a sad excuse for a company, not banning players who are straight up cheating and ruining the community market for everyone else. I think the next step would be to try getting in contact with someone from the FFXIV team and confirming that they won't do anything about them. Once that's done I wouldn't mind quitting, I've played since 2.0, I had 1.0 too, but I'm not going to continue playing in an environment where we just get shafted over and over with the gameplay and on top of that cheaters are allowed to just roam free. Not to mention the joke that is the cash shop, or should I say the cash grab shop. There's no reason they need to be pumping out all these additional emotes and outfits for 10, 12, 17 dollars a piece. WE PAY TO PLAY THE GAME ALREADY. These items should be included in the game as something to work toward, not straight up taking more money out of players pockets. I just can't contain my massive disappointment with the company, and if they remain on the course that they're on I truly can't say I'll be there at the end to support them.

I have played several well known MMOs and botters are always prevalent, in some more obvious than in others. As for the Cash Shop, I think I bought 1 or 2 things in the 2 years I have been playing and I stopped even opening and looking at the Mog Station goodies when I saw the direction it was going. I can craft any item in game and the stuff I make is much better looking than the garish crap on the Mog. As far as Eureka botters, there is nothing except materia from lock boxes that can be sold and is worth anything on-going. The minions are up all the time and are worthless now and how many of the 2 choices of deco furniture does 1 person need? Perhaps the botters will bring the prices down for the crit and DH materia...one can hope :)

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Originally Posted by Ayirez

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SE is the publisher, they care more about the bottom line than they do about the players or bots, devs care about the players but SE has their hands tied with what they can and can't do and if it costs more money to get rid of bots and more of a hassle then they aren't going to do it.

The gaming industry as a whole and corporations in general just care about making money and they don't care about whose toes they step on or what they do, they just want money. Cash shops are a great way for them to make money because they know people are going to buy into them. People blame the companies but really it's the players fault for going to the cash shop and opening up their wallets. The only way cash shops, loot boxes, day 1 patches, etc are going to die out is if people stop buying them, but so long as people do, these things will continue to exist.

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Originally Posted by Shouko

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You aren't wrong in that mentality, but you aren't quite right either. It should not fall to the players to boycott the actions of a company, it should fall to the company to listen to its supporters and realize right from wrong. Cash shops of all forms will, in this day and age, never disappear from a game, the profits are simply too great. But that does not mean that the prices need be as high as they are, it does not mean they need develop so much for the thing, and there should be alternative ways of obtaining said items. For instance, in a game I had started to make but then abandoned (it was good but I just didn't see a large enough market) I had for the first time needed to think about how the cash shop would work (as spending the resources of a single man to make a thing is a lot of effort, gotta profit in it some how). But first and foremost I did not want to abuse the player, they are my everything, if they were to even pay a dollar to me I would get on my knees and thank them profusely.

So instead of making cosmetic items and other vital things (as a single player game the shop indeed had gameplay altering things) I decided to let the player choose between right now and later down the road. If a player wanted to buy a white tiger or sabertooth skin for the normal cat summon, I would allow that for a grand total of 50¢, but alternatively they could earn it themselves by spending the game currency they rack up over time (depending on how avid a player, and this being a mobile game with limited points/hour that I started and capped at two days worth, because I hate having to check in on my game every two minutes myself, though I made incentives to check in regularly enough) roughly a weeks worth of playing. Nothing would be locked behind a paywall to the players who decided to play my game, I wanted to be sure to give them the option to play entirely free. The alternative method to making *some* profit was to give player's a small amount of the time-based action points that regen over time for watching an ad, a totally optional ad. Either way, it falls on me to think of and realize that not every player will have the means to spend on my game, nor should they have to. AND MY GAME WAS FREE TO PLAY. For a game like FFXIV where we pay 15 bucks a month to play? That there's a cash shop, fine, but that they charge as much as they do with no other way of obtaining a lot of the items (excluding the seasonal items as you can earn those in-game if you're around during the event) is simply disgusting. There are a lot of practices that I simply disagree with, none more than cash gouging the people who support you.

All in all, there are better, kinder ways to go about a cash shop, where the player comes first and not money, especially when their subscription sales are already bringing in the cash, and when botters are ruining the experience for your loyal players you don't just sit around wanting more money, you remove those botters from the game no matter the hassle. "A king lives for his people, to bring them happiness and stability, and his people work to support the kingdom as a whole.", is the philosophy that should be applied here, not "A king takes a tax for the people to use the sewers and streets and have homes, but it doesn't get that King a nice golden throne for his other kingdoms (FFXV, DFFNT, ETC) so charge them even more to have desirable luxuries in this one for no reason but greed and to not give the Kingdom his people live in the proper treatment it deserves".

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Originally Posted by Ayirez

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I agree more stuff should be in game to unlock, I've been gaming since I was probably ~8 years old back when the Atari was the hip thing to have, so well aware of what gaming has become over the years. The reason cash shops, day 1 patches, broken day 1 games, etc exist is because players are willing to spend the money they want that exclusive gamestop bonus or w/e. I also agree that in a perfect world the companies would listen to us, but we don't live in such a world and corporations don't need to listen to the little guy, hence why I said that the only way to put a stop to these practices is if we stop doing them.

It's sad to see gaming gone the way it has, but it's the way it is, we can do 2 of things, keep buying games and deal with it or not buy them and not deal with it, life isn't fair and the little people have no say.

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Originally Posted by Ayirez

It should not fall to the players to boycott the actions of a company, it should fall to the company to listen to its supporters and realize right from wrong..

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It most certainly should. No company is going to decrease their revenue if customers are paying. I don't even think they're gouging people. Gouging is driving up the prices on things people need to live on. Example, a hurricane is coming and stores know people will stock up on bottled water so they triple the price; that's gouging. Everything on the mog station are vanity items, you don't need any of it to play or succeed in the game. If players want the prices to go down, they need to stop buying it. SE, like any business, is going to charge what people are willing to pay. When you lower your prices on the MB, are you doing it because it's the right thing to do for the players that may not be able to afford it, or are you doing it because you want to sell it faster?

Eureka is just afk content. I kill the NM and then play on my phone until I see another fate after following the train. If SE cared they'd make Eureka better and not diadem 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Alyanna_Elingval

Gouging is driving up the prices on things people need to live on. Example, a hurricane is coming and stores know people will stock up on bottled water so they triple the price; that's gouging.

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It's actually the market's form of rationing, but it's best to leave that discussion alone here ;)

I agree, however, that it's absolutely on the consumers. Generally speaking, businesses rely solely on the free will of consumers to purchase their product or service over the competition. If the product or service is no good/a scam/sub-par/etc they generally go out of business before too long, at which point it would be on them to fix it (or not). There are of course a lot of extremes along this spectrum, but in general, the buck stops at consumer choice.

I won't continue the discussion, I'll simply say I disagree and that any company charging 12 dollars for an emote they can make within a couple days, when they already charge us to even play the game, is indeed gouging and is indeed disgusting. I won't buy any of their items, but am I to unsub and not play the game I've put a lot of hard work in now too? Get real. The company as a whole has a responsibility, not just to their consumers and not just to profits, but to what is right and wrong as well. If they fail to take note I hope the company crashes and burns, it'll be deserved. I myself intent to quit FFXIV if, when 5.0 is released, it has not changed the cookie cutter model they've been using since ARR first launched. I understand your points of view and agree that no one should buy from the cash shop, but whales exist and the general consumer is ignorant. Nothing will change if we leave it to the entirety of a not so bright community, change must come from within for what is right.

Well, this thread got hijacked pretty bad...

I cant believe people are trying to discuss what SE should do from some sort of twisted moral standpoint. YOU as in any individual person reading this will have your own version of what is "right" and what is "wrong". Theres never a right answer because everyone will be different in some way shape or form and theres really no standard to compare to. The only way you can remotely justify right and wrong is through a consensus across a society which is where norms, taboos, and laws derive from. But even then, it doesnt mean one version of thinking is better than another - and society isnt exactly right either - it changes all the time!

Point is, YOU might think the cash shop is bad, and you're stating other people use the cash shop. Clearly SE's actions support that claim - i wouldn't waste my time updating it if no one uses it after all. Couple people in here are also saying vote with your wallet? They already are! They're choosing to buy. Far as im concerned the ones not voting with their wallets are people that claim something so egregious is happening that we should stop buying or even unsub - the ones often telling us to vote with our wallets in the first place!

Would we all enjoy content more if it was just made for free instead of a cash shop? Absolutely. You'll probably seldom see an argument against that - unless you're the one handing stuff out. By this logic that it should all be free, do me a favor and find another player and hand em all your tradeable items and gil and demand nothing in return. Now go earn it all back, and find another lucky player to hand it all over again. Rinse and repeat. You wont do that? Interesting, i wouldn't either. Why would i expect SE, a company designed to MAKE MONEY, to do that with their cash shop? Right then, im going to go to McDonald's and ask for a free quarter pounder sandwich because i'd enjoy it more if it was free.

If you guys plan on gathering support for things that you think should change, try considering the few million other players thoughts on the matter - you might be very surprised to see how different you and your circle of friends idealistic game might be from others.