Male Spring Bottoms. What the hell?

yo in spring is somewhere still cold so dev team keep us healthy :D anyway this desing with that hips are disgusting :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

People complained about the WHM AF1? But that looks very nice on guys (especially Roegadyn). AF2 is a dumpters fire, though.

---

Yes, there's always guys complaining that they don't like casters wearing dresses. And, I've seen a lot of topics about how the gear overall in FFXIV is too feminine, and they also go on about how SE hates men so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killstein

someone on reddit called them medical scrubs and i died. although tbh, their comparison isnt too far off....

---

As someone who really wanted a medical scrubs item I’m Both happy and thinking “not like this”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ariane

Yes, there's always guys complaining that they don't like casters wearing dresses. And, I've seen a lot of topics about how the gear overall in FFXIV is too feminine, and they also go on about how SE hates men so much.

---

Life is rough if you want to be a manly caster/healer. I say this as a heal main who plays RDM and BLM most often when DPSing- you have to try really, really hard to avoid wearing dresses, robes, super long coats, etc. Some of the sets do look cool (can't wait to get a dyable version of the Bardam's stuff!), but a lot of the time I just want to see myself actually wearing pants or shorts, no frills or sweeping robes attached. SE is stuck in a rigid design mentality across the board and these sad excuse for seasonal "shorts" is just the latest in a long trend of not being in touch with what people want to have their characters wear.

I've been wearing the Garo set for ages as a caster since it's simply the most aesthetically pleasing "battle mage" gear in the game, and that was designed by someone outside the company. I want more stuff like that. And shorts. For the love of god can we get some real shorts so I can have something approaching variety PLEASE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ariane

Yes, there's always guys complaining that they don't like casters wearing dresses. And, I've seen a lot of topics about how the gear overall in FFXIV is too feminine, and they also go on about how SE hates men so much.

---

Because it's true? Or rather, it's become very obvious. But you wouldn't know would you? Probably not. If you look at nearly all the gear (especially caster and healer gear) starting from HW to now, it's either a dress or some "coat" at that is cleverly disguised as a dress. Lot of them look overly feminine. Have you seen the caster SB leveling (62-68) gear? Especially the lvl 64 Caster gear. It's feminine looking and it's ugly at that.


Whoever designs gear at SE is very narrow minded and needs to be fired asap. Lot of the gear is reskinned from old ass gear from past expansions. Outside of "some" lvl 1 glamour pieces and some arr leveling gear (which a lot of them are gender neutral) lot of the gear onwards is very feminine and it's getting on my nerves.

If you wanna wear a dress then more power to ya, but I want some masculine looking gear or at least some gear that shows off a guy's features more. Most female players don't complain much cause a lot the gear designs panders a lot to female players and or males playing females.

But male characters, as far as SE is concerned, is put on the backburner as far as better gear is considered which leads me to believe that SE is very much double standardized.

To the Devs: My suggestion: Make gender related gear for both genders from lvl 50-onwards. For example, the lvl 50 caster body is the "Rainbow Robe of Casting". Make 2 sets, one for females and one for males. For a game like this that likes to pander, this shouldn't be a hard task to do. If this continues as is...5.0 onwards will have the same reskinned gear and feminine looking gear and that's not something I'm looking forward too. Fire your terribad designer and hire someone who actually cares about diversity.

If you think I'm complaining then i don't really care what you think, but you're welcome to argue your case. My complaint is a valid one and I think there are other people who agree that the gear design needs to change, at least as far as designing gear for males.

*raises hand slowly* Like me. I really hated that for the longest time I was stuck with one casting jacket because it was the only one that was cool and wasn't a straight up dress.

Thankfully now we have the Spring Shirt, unlocked suspenders from Eureka, and the Winter Sweater if I am feeling like looking like a dad, so I'm really happy that now I actually have some choices

I'm just saying there are people that complain the gear is too feminine and others complain its not feminine enough. They already do sometimes make the gear different looking between genders, and even once had different sets for both for the Garo gear. But then you get some people complaining that their male characters don't get stuff like a butterfly hairpin. But if both genders got the butterfly hairpin? People would be complaining its too feminine for men.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ariane

I'm just saying there are people that complain the gear is too feminine and others complain its not feminine enough. They already do sometimes make the gear different looking between genders, and even once had different sets for both for the Garo gear. But then you get some people complaining that their male characters don't get stuff like a butterfly hairpin. But if both genders got the butterfly hairpin? People would be complaining its too feminine for men.

---

The problem is a lack of options that hurts everyone involved, if we had more options no one would've picked on any one set that goes heavily in either direction because there would've been something to offset it like there is for females most of the time. Some people want to run their male characters as wearing more femininie clothes - not necessarily the Generic Robes™ casters get (and what if I want that, but for my tank? I'm screwed), especially when you look at the variety of outfits female characters get. And then you have the people who want more masculine outfits, who either get screwed over because the set is unisex so they have to put in a boob-window a-la lore tank set (I personally like that on guys, but I get why people complain), or because their idea of what guys wear is what we got in this case, Generic Pants™ that don't even look that good. Pants can look good, I adore the AF3 BRD pants, but they're the extreme minority. Sometimes I have a hard time telling apart the Best Man's slacks from the Butler's slacks from the Slacks of Eternal Passion. Sure, I have 3 options for pants. But are they really options if I can't really tell them apart?
And yes, people can and will complain either way. But these pants in particular are just plain and uninspired, I can't imagine either side is overly happy with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

I was speaking for Square, sorry.

I like my knees. D:

---

Lalafell knees are the best knees!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stardrifter

what is it in this game all the guys wanna cross dress

---

Breaking news: shorts are now considered cross dressing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokke

Breaking news: shorts are now considered cross dressing

---

He is taking about that thread where a lot of guys want to cross dress their male characters in female dress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

He is taking about that thread where a lot of guys want to cross dress their male characters in female dress.

---

Which has little to do with this thread.

But if one really wants to know the secrets behind why people want to cross dress:

a. they find it funny

b. they find it sexy

yanno, the same reasons why so many characters are bouncing around in pigsuits and bikinis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokke

Breaking news: shorts are now considered cross dressing

---

If Cloud wore "short shorts" instead of the bland grape dress he wore for the cross dressing scene in FF7, would he have a better chance of getting picked by Don Corneo? Hmm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

We have subligars, we have banana hammocks... and then there's the AF1 WHM set. Where guys finally get shorts! ...but it's only because someone pressed the Red Button™ so the trade-off is that for ladies a piece of gear that rightly should've been pants or what not is a pair of panties. It's like they can't find a decent middle ground.

---

I get tired of skirts and dresses all the time, I don't mind for a caster job here n there but if I want a dress I want something more like battle dresses with armor...

There are normal dude shorts... south seas trunks.. I wouldn't mind maybe a cargo short for guys... but no daisy dukes... we don't need another item to remind us how "Ill equipped" males are in this game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okamimaru

There are normal dude shorts... south seas trunks.. I wouldn't mind maybe a cargo short for guys... but no daisy dukes... we don't need another item to remind us how "Ill equipped" males are in this game

---

The shorts shown in the photo are normal rolled jean shorts, daisy dukes are https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Oz3PQ...pg_640x640.jpg

I searched the spring pant for men in google and this is what I got:

https://www.menshealth.com/style/the...spring/slide/3

All of top 10 pants is similar to S/E design, so what are you whining about?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokke

Which has little to do with this thread.

But if one really wants to know the secrets behind why people want to cross dress:

a. they find it funny

b. they find it sexy

yanno, the same reasons why so many characters are bouncing around in pigsuits and bikinis

---

Go search spring pant for men yourself, every design is just variation of pic below:

https://www.menshealth.com/sites/men...?itok=S2rGrR3Q

So tell me, what mistake S/E made this time beside OP is being whining?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

snip

---

Oh look, another pair of pants like all the other Generic Pants™ we have in the game already. What an innovation. Because 37 weren't enough I need the 38th.
That design doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can't defend it while ignoring the overall condition of male glamours. It doesn't matter how fashionable or unfashionable it is, what matters is that we have a dime a dozen of it in the game already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Let's just be rid of gender locked gear. All it does is stunt creativity and potential comedy. Both bring a lot of joy.

---

Actually, I'd like more gender locked gear. Gender locking it would actually add creativity, not stunt it. Unlocked gear means everything has to be the same, that is boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Actually, I'd like more gender locked gear. Gender locking it would actually add creativity, not stunt it. Unlocked gear means everything has to be the same, that is boring.

---

This. I wish more people understood the creativity in working around restrictions, and the uniqueness of using those restricted for your own class/race/gender.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Oh look, another pair of pants like all the other Generic Pants™ we have in the game already. What an innovation. Because 37 weren't enough I need the 38th.
That design doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can't defend it while ignoring the overall condition of male glamours. It doesn't matter how fashionable or unfashionable it is, what matters is that we have a dime a dozen of it in the game already.

---

Male glamour?
Don't complain when you are gluess:

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...m/a441e318022/
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...m/9ec30e66b6c/

There are just two of them. There are many suppose to gender generic gear only showing male version even it is on female character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

So tell me, what mistake S/E made this time beside OP is being whining?

---

Are you implying that men do not wear shorts in spring?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokke

Are you implying that men do not wear shorts in spring?

---

I am implying the general design choice of every major brands in regard to men's spring pant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

I am implying the general design choice of every major brands in regard to men's spring pant

---

http://www.pacsun.com/mens/shorts/
https://www.forever21.com/us/shop/Ca...-bottom-shorts

mens spring bottoms- shorts included, because sometimes even men wear shorts in spring ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

I am implying the general design choice of every major brands in regard to men's spring pant

---

Well, they're called spring "bottoms", not spring "pants". Since we're being nitpicky and all. Why do females get shorts, and guys get another pair of pants? Why not give guys a nice pair of shorts as well? Those are pretty common during spring and summer, no?

Haha. Oh, look! It's another thread where some very vocal people playing female characters rush to tell people who play male characters what they should and should not get up in arms about. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Haha. Oh, look! It's another thread where some very vocal people playing female characters rush to tell people who play male characters what they should and should not get up in arms about. :rolleyes:

---

I forgot, only male avatars can share an opinion regarding male fashion.

I honestly haven't seen any man wear shorts with the bottoms rolled up since the early 80s unless done for comedic effect... I want masculine shorts... i don't want to look like a child nor do I want to look like a male stripper...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I forgot, only male avatars can share an opinion regarding male fashion.

---

Nice try, but that isn't what I said.

There is, however, a confirmed track record of people who primarily or solely play male characters having their concerns and feedback suppressed by those who primarily or solely play female characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Haha. Oh, look! It's another thread where some very vocal people playing female characters rush to tell people who play male characters what they should and should not get up in arms about. :rolleyes:

---

Nice, what happened to freedom of speech?
THere is something called FF14 blog, you can use it there if you dont want any opposite opinion, because those dont agree with you wont even pay attention to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

Nice, what happened to freedom of speech?
THere is something called FF14 blog, you can use it there if you dont want any opposite opinion, because those dont agree with you wont even pay attention to you.

---

Nobody is saying you can't say what you're saying, though?

It's a more a matter of you and others like you being nothing more than an obstacle. That's really all you are. An obstacle. An unwanted bump in the road.

It's already an uphill battle for people passionate about male glamour options to get anything accomplished due to developer disinterest. It's a real shame, then, that there's no shortage of people rushing to tell us how wrong we are each and every time we try and point out the discrepancies between the amount of options female characters get in this game compared to what male characters receive.

Yikes, those are terrible!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Nice try, but that isn't what I said

---

Being overly flavorful with how you word things also doesn't help anyone's cause. Out of the "females" that came rushing into this thread and shared an opinion, one stated they liked pants in a rather neutral way, one suggested a modified version, one is implying people are just whining/complaining and the pants are fine, and the rest have been in support of guys getting equivalent styles.

I'm assuming you're in the camp that wants shorts as well (could be wrong, haven't seen anything straight out), but making a broad statement about "Oh look, another thread where some female characters rush in to tell guys what they should get up in arms about" is just insulting those who have been on the side of the guys trying to get equal gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skivvy

Being overly flavorful with how you word things also doesn't help anyone's cause. Out of the "females" that came rushing into this thread and shared an opinion, one stated they liked pants in a rather neutral way, one suggested a modified version, one is implying people are just whining/complaining and the pants are fine, and the rest have been in support of guys getting equivalent styles.

I'm assuming you're in the camp that wants shorts as well (could be wrong, haven't seen anything straight out), but making a broad statement about "Oh look, another thread where some female characters rush in to tell guys what they should get up in arms about" is just insulting those who have been on the side of the guys trying to get equal gear.

---

I don't think he was referring to supporters, just detractors and trolls like Divine who see people wanting a benign thing and feel compelled to poop all over them for no reason.

Like, no one's asking for females to get less or worse gear here. Just for guys to get some more love from the designers. What's it to them if we want something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemights

He is taking about that thread where a lot of guys want to cross dress their male characters in female dress.

---

That sounds like my thread, and if that's your takeaway from it you clearly didn't actually read the first post. It's not that we want to crossdress. We can already crossdress perfectly well; male characters of every class have access to several skirts, and almost every class has at least one set of gear that looks pretty 'dress'-like (with casters having MANY given the fine line between 'robe' and 'ballgown').

The problem, and the point is that the devs are bizarrely inconsistent about what they do and don't change; it's fine and dandy for my male White Mage to have a closet full of what are basically ballgowns and evening dresses, but then the devs suddenly balk at giving males a pair of shorts? And even worse, they go and replace those shorts, which are a cute, unique model on female characters, with something utterly shapeless and lacking in detail. AGAIN. They've got a history of doing this and we're sick of it.

All I want is some nice shorts for my character to wear, that aren't the same Summer Trunks I've been using since the first Moonfire Faire, why is that so hard? First the Skallic set crushes my hopes, and now this; my heart can't take much more...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Actually, I'd like more gender locked gear. Gender locking it would actually add creativity, not stunt it. Unlocked gear means everything has to be the same, that is boring.

---

It's both actually, locked = less options, but higher amounts of creativity, unlock = less creativity but more options therefore more creativity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Nice try, but that isn't what I said.

There is, however, a confirmed track record of people who primarily or solely play male characters having their concerns and feedback suppressed by those who primarily or solely play female characters.

---

I never understand them. I mean its not like you guys want something very special or anything..you just want the shorts like the female version..I mean what is wrong with that? In a game with that many subligars a short pant like that is kinda normal..(and yes I would never wear the male version, it looks horrible)

So +1 for OP.

(Also what...since when is wearing shorts as a man crossdressing?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usho

Because it's true? Or rather, it's become very obvious. But you wouldn't know would you? Probably not. If you look at nearly all the gear (especially caster and healer gear) starting from HW to now, it's either a dress or some "coat" at that is cleverly disguised as a dress. Lot of them look overly feminine. Have you seen the caster SB leveling (62-68) gear? Especially the lvl 64 Caster gear. It's feminine looking and it's ugly at that.

---

Caster gear isn't even that bad in general, it's a mix of outfits. Healer outfits though are atrocious for males. It's not even the robes that are the issue. Most of the robes look pretty good on male characters and the BLM and RDM ones even have a masculine edge to them. It's outfits like the SMN AF1 set, or the Republican caster/healer sets, that just don't fit a male character very well. Not because they show off body, which IMO is fine, but because of the overall design of the fabrics. I agree with your suggestion to make a male/female variant of outfits that lack a unisex design. Maybe not gender-lock it for the minority who like putting girly outfits on guys and vice versa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

The problem is a lack of options that hurts everyone involved, if we had more options no one would've picked on any one set that goes heavily in either direction because there would've been something to offset it like there is for females most of the time. Some people want to run their male characters as wearing more femininie clothes - not necessarily the Generic Robes™ casters get (and what if I want that, but for my tank? I'm screwed), especially when you look at the variety of outfits female characters get. And then you have the people who want more masculine outfits, who either get screwed over because the set is unisex so they have to put in a boob-window a-la lore tank set (I personally like that on guys, but I get why people complain), or because their idea of what guys wear is what we got in this case, Generic Pants™ that don't even look that good. Pants can look good, I adore the AF3 BRD pants, but they're the extreme minority. Sometimes I have a hard time telling apart the Best Man's slacks from the Butler's slacks from the Slacks of Eternal Passion. Sure, I have 3 options for pants. But are they really options if I can't really tell them apart?
And yes, people can and will complain either way. But these pants in particular are just plain and uninspired, I can't imagine either side is overly happy with them.

---

Yeah, I think they could resolve this by making a variant of each set intended for each gender but not gender locking it. It'd be a bit more design effort but 1) they have a cash shop and 2) the sub isn't exactly cheap, so I am tired of cop outs and excuses for not spending money on the game.

Yeah, these pants are awful! Not going to waste gil on these when there are low level craftables that look better.

If the design team can't come up with a decent pair of shorts for the males then I think they should consider recruiting.