Ivalician Moogles As A Playable Race - A Mogifesto

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

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Originally Posted by Corue, (deleted by player, can't quote reference quote)Reason: doesn't contribute much

Pretty much this. The devs did consider a beast-like race from the concept art, but since some of the anatomy was very different to humans (skull shape and feet in particular) they probably just toned them down to humans to save time on making gear.
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/umadori07...f/cfe35148.jpg

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Or one particular image on how the females were thought of:
http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...5-22_29_38.jpg

I am particularly fond of the one on the right.

Edit: I am not in the intent of derailing the topic, but in general, I do believe they will keep it "safe" on races and the closest thing to a "more feral" race consideration has been the Viera, and I am not to keen on that one.

/derailingrant

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For both quotes:
How old are those? they look like Au Ra protypes.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

For both quotes:
How old are those? they look like Au Ra protypes.

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They're concept drawings from before HW was even out.

i hope someone important sees this and brings it to the devs attention. you put so much work into this its brilliant! and i love it.

Pretty clever write up - I suppose that being a full continent apart would give these Moogles a much different appearance, despite being similar in origin - that DOES (did? Tense phrasing is weird.) happen in real life, too.

The closest models ARE Lalafell, yeah, and don't forget that XIV uses assets from XII - which these Moogles are also from. Now, it'd be a bit of a reach out from the normally human-like races we already have, but I can see them becoming popular quickly - possibly even the most played species.

The argument about new-player confusion is also less viable if you can just say "They're from a far off land." Similar origins, but evolved differently, what have you.

So yeah, if this can get voted up a bit more, who knows? You've done a very good job explaining why they could be possible, so why not go further? I'm all for it!

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...c9&oe=5B962270

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...94&oe=5B94182F

https://scontent.fcxh3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...ef&oe=5B5092E9

I support this race, Moogles are a staple of Final Fantasy I feel like many would enjoy playing as them.

I also support this Mogifesto! as we're heading further into Ivalician lore it would be nice to have a new race related to it.
personally, I just want a pom.

We could just have a Polimorph Guide, similar to Mount Guide. I saw this in other games, such as Aion (Candy), We gain a appearance of something.

It would be good if we could learn them and turn on and off at any time.
Basicaly, using a Polimorph would change our look to an unique appearance, with unique animation.
With this, we could get all the beast tribe appearance, and from the others FFs.

I see this as a alternative when a certain race would be too expencive to turn into a playable race.

Ivalice wouldn't be too hard though outfit wise since the Ivalice mogs are basically just LaLa.

Still the story be in need probably too many changes especially early Scion stuff & some opening cutscenes "Gridania" specifically first mog interaction, then also dialogue changes needed for all times they call your character human since mogs would not fit that title & would need special interactions in HW since relationship of Eorzea mogs & Dragons which feel they'd be more trusting of something they'd note as a moogle + the moogle quest in CM would need Dialogue updates to reflect it as well.

They got away with Aura because made them no relation to dragons so didn't need change past they're just human like Roe/Lala/Miqos but Ivalice Mogs that's not something they could do the same it'd require a lot of change to ARR & HW & SB scenarios dialogue.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Umbra

Still the story be in need probably too many changes especially early Scion stuff & some opening cutscenes "Gridania" specifically first mog interaction, then also dialogue changes needed for all times they call your character human since mogs would not fit that title & would need special interactions in HW since relationship of Eorzea mogs & Dragons which feel they'd be more trusting of something they'd note as a moogle + the moogle quest in CM would need Dialogue updates to reflect it as well.

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My proposal is that they wouldn't be "actual" moogles, they'd be a beast tribe from Ivalice that share a very faint resemblance to the moogles we know. At most a XIV moogle would call them a fat knockoff and leave it at that. Dragons would probably shun them since they live so close to the human-like races.

The only issue I could see with this is the Ul'Dah, since in the lore they explicitly forbid beast tribes within the city walls due to the fear of primals. Since these moogles don't have a primal they could make an exception for them, though it would draw some ire from the locals.

I can't recall any of the early Scion story. Is there anything I'm missing? I am aware they're cautious of the beast tribes, but they did allow a Sylph to join at one point, so they can't be too adverse to the idea.

You did an excellent job with this posting! I wouldn't mind see them in game either. +1

I'd take Any moogle as playable, a good idea.

If not however, I'll also take a Moogle companion that functions like the Chocobo (not rideable, but can be summoned as a companion in combat yah)

I’d make a moogle character for sure. I think having a beast race that’s cute and charming is the best addition to 14. I don’t think we will ever see something like Orcs or Trolls because this is an Eastern game.

I just realised I didn't actually add how they'd work within the lore of the story, so I just wrote a short paragraph about how they'd fit in and what problems and solutions could arise from adding a beast race as a playable race. I hope this answers some questions.

To put aside the inevitable arguments of moogles already existing, I propose that Ivalician Moogles wouldn't be "real" moogles. They could potentially share an ancient ancestor, but they came from very different places and ended up as completely distinguishable races, because of this they share a species name and not much else. This can be evidenced by their behaviour. The moogles of Eorzea prefer to laze about and only work under promise of kupo nuts. The Moogles of Ivalice, however, work because they want to. Moogles are responsible for inventing the majority of technology in Ivalice, from weaponry to airships to even an entire city made solely of machinery, kupo nuts be damned. They aren't entirely work-centric though and do enjoy recreational activities such as playing music. Before the fall of Rabanastre, Moogle musicians would be at the forefront of royal parades.

They do bear similarities to the Goblins of Eorzea, Moogles are a race with a keen interest of tinkering and creating machinery and have closer relations to the Hyur-like races than other beastmen. Though unlike Goblins, Moogles aren't particularly known for being merchants, have absolutely no belief in any kind of Primal and have completely different styles of technology. Many a time has there been a heated debate between Goblin and Moogle engineers over whose technology is superior..

It wouldn't be easy to just stick Moogles in and have everything work out straight away. Having a beast-like race as a playable race would cause some complications, but I believe these can be addressed. Some of these would require conditional dialogue changes so I'm not entirely sure if they would be possible to implement.

The main issue I could see is starting in Ul'dah, as Ul'dah purposely evicts all beastmen due to fear of Primals. I believe that since Moogles live in such proximity to the Hyurs of Ivalice, lack any kind of belief in a Primal and have a strong work ethic, Ul'Dah would allow them as temporary visitors for work-related purposes. Though they would inevitably draw some ire from the locals.
Interactions with regular moogles could be seen as a problem, but I doubt this. Ivalician Moogles bear an incredibly faint resemblance to the moogles of Eorzea. At most they'd call them fat imposters and wouldn't give it a second thought. Adding onto this- due to the disparity of their appearance, there's no chance that a dragon would think of an Ivalician Moogle as a moogle of the Churning Mists. They would detest them due to how close they are with the Hyur-like races.
Beastmen can posses the Echo, as is evidenced by a certain scene during the Leviathan quests, so it wouldn't be impossible for a Moogle to possess the Echo. The Scions of the Seventh Dawn are incredibly wary of the beast tribes, but they would most likely make an exception for a Moogle with the power of the Echo. After all, they do allow for a Sylph to become a member later on so they aren't that averse to allowing beastmen to join them.

So basically a lalafell for furries.

As a person who has only played final fantasy 14, I didn't know this race existed, and it does not look like a moogle to me.

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Originally Posted by mikanana

As a person who has only played final fantasy 14, I didn't know this race existed, and it does not look like a moogle to me.

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Yeah, the race first got reveal in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance for the GBA.


On topic : A moogle race like that would be neat imo, pretty much the size of a children in 14 would be great and the hair color would be the ball on your head xD.

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Originally Posted by mikanana

As a person who has only played final fantasy 14, I didn't know this race existed, and it does not look like a moogle to me.

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They're the moogles from the Ivalice games that first appeared in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and every new game in the Ivalice series since. As you can see, they're drastically different in design from the typical moogle.

In comparison to other moogles they had a far more active role their games. In Tactics Advance not only were a few main characters but they were playable and had their own unique jobs. In the XII series they had a lesser role but the lore states that they were responsible for inventing the majority of technology in the Ivalice universe.

I made a little comment about the differences of headgear in the OP, but I didn't really go into detail about it, so I thought I'd make a short post about how hats would be change to accommodate Moogles and what problems could be fixed.

Hats and how they would differ

While the majority of gear would easily be able to work with the body of a Moogle, hats could pose a unique problem for them. Moogles have a snout that sticks which causes there face to lack the flatness of a human face and they have noticeablly larger ears. Due to the size of the ears it would look rather silly for them to have "ear extensions" appended to helmets like Miqo'te or Elezen, so they'd have no choice but to stick out.
While some hats would be able to work with these issues (helmets are bulky and could cover the snout, headgear with flat designs will allow for ears to stick out, circlets and headbands will still work even with ears, etc), there will still be some style of hats would conflict with these differences in anatomy. I don't know a lot about modelling, and I know even less about the developer's modelling process, but here are the issues which I believe will arise and my proposed solutions to fix these.

(Please forgive my poor image editing skills.)

The problem:

https://i.imgur.com/R1aszQT.png

Tall hats. Due to the tall ears of Moogles, the cone would clip through the middle of the ears and would look rather sloppy.

The solution:

https://i.imgur.com/6WaV6XL.png

Shrink the center of the hat and allow the ears to clip through the sides, like the mooglings of Final Fantasy XII.

Alternatively:

https://i.imgur.com/U613x0a.png

Disable the ears for tall hats, similar to the black mage design from the Tactics series.

The problem:

https://i.imgur.com/o8msJQn.png

Masks designed to follow the shape of a human face. (i.e. Alexandrian Visor of Fending). Since Moogles have a snout that sticks out this would create clipping issues.

The solution:

https://i.imgur.com/g8t51wS.png

This will obviously require modification of the model, but will not require a complete redesign.
The "jaw" of a mask and the part that covers the mouth would be extended to account for the snout, with the front widened to fit the width.
Whiskers would also be made invisible too.

https://i.imgur.com/8NJptOs.png

Mouth-guard style masks can easily be fixed by stretching the mouth part sideways and bringing it forwards for the snout.

The problem:

https://i.imgur.com/AEvanEk.png

Hats with brims that adhere to the shape of the skull will cause clipping issues with the base of Moogle ears.

The solution:

https://i.imgur.com/yzUAOD8.png

Widen the brim of the hat to cover the base of the ears and allow the ears to clip through the sides or the top.
This will retain the "tight-fitting" shape while removing ugly clipping with the base of both hat and ear.

I think I covered the main issues, but if there's a style of hat I forgot please let me know.

I want this, but only to see them running around as Dark knights. Moogle Edgelords.

Awwww these guys are cute! I wouldn't mind seeing them in game. Along with Lupin...

I would switch to this race in a heartbeat, as well as never stop subbing. Ever.

Marshmallows and potatoes huh?

You know, with this we could make true classic Black Mages. Sure, ones with long ears and a pompom, but closer than painting a Lalafell's face black.

I always play the beast type race in every game. If I wanted to play I human I would live out my final fantasy within the real world.... as a human...

I do the same too actually.

I'd be so for this :D I agree with everything OP presented and NECRO-BUMP!

When I first saw Ivalician Moogles as a suggestion in response to BluFever's leaks, I laughed it off a bit and thought it was all good fun. Then I thought about it for a second and remembered Final Fantasy XII, and then I saw this thread which, I must say, really makes a good case for Ivalician Moogles as a race and would be a nice way to shake things up. I've always played a modest female character, but I wouldn't hesitate to swap to an Ivalician Moogle and stay that way; they're just an iconic Final Fantasy race, I loved them in XII and XII-2, Tactics, etc.

I think the best point you brought up here is how easy it would be to implement Moogle equipment by editing currently existing models and rigs from Lalafells. No matter what process they use for Viera, they will have to edit feet models and textures. Moogle gear might have to be cropped a bit, but it's arguably much less effort to implement Ivalician Moogles than it would be Viera, as much as I'd like to have both races.

The precedent is definitely there for all of this. As SQEX works Ivalician lore into the setting of Final Fantasy XIV, setting up Zodiark to possibly be the main antagonistic force in the entire game, and even being based on the Final Fantasy XII engine, it makes a lot of sense for them to draw from Ivalice as much as possible. The world is vast and can easily accommodate the addition of both races as most of the world is cut-off from other parts or unexplored.

tl;dr I don't see any reason why this can't work. I'd like Viera to be added as well, but Ivalician Moogles could be added with relative ease compared to Viera and aside from that, if tall/large races continue to be added, there will be less and less variety. I'd also really like to see races with less human/hyur features since you can basically summarize each race as "human with x feature".

Supposedly blufevers GameFAQS icon was a hint at the second race (lion and bunny:for viera) but I think that might just be a red herring.

So far the leaks have been somewhat spot on...If we get a second race I really want them to be Moogles. I think it would be a good pairing with Viera, Both are bunny like races.

I think more than ever we should let our voices be heard. (and not because I secretly want to wage a Moogle/lalafell war)

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Originally Posted by Shiro-Koizumi

Supposedly blufevers GameFAQS icon was a hint at the second race (lion and bunny:for viera) but I think that might just be a red herring.

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I mean, aren't Moogles just small lions? All you need to do is shrink them down, make them walk on two feet, give them hands with opposable thumbs, wings and a pom, completely rearrange their facial structure and then make them talk. It's pretty obvious if you think about it.

Also while I am happy to see people are taking an interest in this thread, I'd like to point out I created it way before Ridorana Lighthouse came out, which deconfirmed the existence of Ivalice Moogles. Unless n original race with a similar appearance is revealed, I feel now that the slim chances of getting a Moogle race have been reduced to none.

Unless it's just a bamboozle and Hurdy and Montblanc are using glamour prisms to hide their real appearance. I can still dream.

I think this ship has sailed, sadly. Isn't Montblanc from Ivalice? He looks like any old Moogle from Eorzea.

Its possible, that there are different species of Moogle, and they might have just retconned Monteblanc and Gurdy

According to this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._leaks/e5ebho0

Supposedly during the lighthouse quest they mentioned the ones from rabanastre are different from eorzea, I mean of course it could have been misread.

I dont know I think they'd fit perfectly as a companion race with Veira.

If we do end up getting a Lion race instead though I hope they're cute and smol and not ronso

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Originally Posted by Shiro-Koizumi

According to this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._leaks/e5ebho0

Supposedly during the lighthouse quest they mentioned the ones from rabanastre are different from eorzea, I mean of course it could have been misread.

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I'd have to rewatch the Ridorana cutscenes in that case. As far as I know all the acknowledgment Moogles get is an easily missed conversation between NPCs where they state something like "Moogles don't have rabbit ears! Have they ever seen a Moogle before?"
It's probably just a joke line but maybe there's something in the lore that inspired their appearance?

Wait.
Moogles are rarely seen in Ivalice.
Male Viera are also rarely seen in Ivalice.
Therefore someone saw a male Viera and thought it was a Moogle.

You heard it here first, folks. Male Viera look like Moogles.

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Originally Posted by Corue

Male Viera look like Moogles.

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You could be on to something here... we can't have both this idea and Viera in one expansion, but what if Male Viera ARE moogles.

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Originally Posted by Shiro-Koizumi

If we do end up getting a Lion race instead though I hope they're cute and smol and not ronso

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Perhaps something like a momba would interest you then? :D they are cute and smol

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Originally Posted by Corue

I'd have to rewatch the Ridorana cutscenes in that case. As far as I know all the acknowledgment Moogles get is an easily missed conversation between NPCs where they state something like "Moogles don't have rabbit ears! Have they ever seen a Moogle before?"
It's probably just a joke line but maybe there's something in the lore that inspired their appearance?

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I remember that conversation, or another at the same time - and they were commenting that the real moogles looked nothing like the costumes they had made for their play, which were implied to resemble the Ivalician design.


Also, if they *are* adding Viera in the next expansion, I’d think it’s even less likely to get playable moogles (particularly at the same time) since they’re both rabbit-people. Unless they do go the route of combining the two.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Also, if they *are* adding Viera in the next expansion, I’d think it’s even less likely to get playable moogles (particularly at the same time) since they’re both rabbit-people. Unless they do go the route of combining the two.

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I think that's a really poor argument considering how vastly different the two races look. They aren't both "rabbit-people", they just so happen to share similar looking (ish?) ears.

There are two arguments to have here, neither of them is that one.

A) We aren't getting two races (which is very likely).
B) Viera is more similar to Miqote than Moogles.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think that's a really poor argument considering how vastly different the two races look. They aren't both "rabbit-people", they just so happen to share similar looking (ish?) ears.

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Still, I feel like they're similar enough that people would complain that we got two "rabbit" races if they were both added at once.

Then again, someone's going to complain about whatever gets added...

Dude, this is awesome! The work and thought you put into this Mogifesto is astonishing and I can feel the passion you put into it. I really hope that SE will see and acknowledges this. We definitely need more playable Final Fantasy-ish races (and not just the waifu-able ones).

I want moogle.