Surprisingly, The outdated MMO is WOW, not FFXI/XIV1.2

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Not really an exaggeration.

Last time I tried to make a piece of equipment, I remember needing between 12-20 separate materials. I think it was a book? I needed ink, which needed three materials: some sort of mob dropped acid, some kind of special water that you had to mine, and some metal powder. Then you need leather, but the leather needs a mob drop and some kind of gathered alumen-type powder, then you needed a gem which itself needs two materials, a metal ingot which requires three materials, and then you combine all of these together... by the time you do all of this, you would have needed some 12+ materials (maybe not 20, alright, fine) and 4-5 synths before synthing the final product.

That's......a lot of work. For one single item.

I think I preferred Vanilla crafting, to be honest.

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I'm guessing you mean Vanilla WoW?

Oddly enough, the only crafting system I've ever really gotten into (apart from cooking on my Vanilla Hunter for my every-hungry and surprisingly picky pets) was 1.0's, but the reasons are probably largely tangential. Because of the fatigue system and time constraints while playing with less time-restrained friends, I chose to pursue only a few combat classes, maining only one (Pugilist, while "subbing" Archer and Conjurer), while trying to keep my gear up to date for it via the craft system in coordination with my friends' professions. Through a mixture of the (briefly) seeming openness of the craft system, leves giving you all the required materials for their crafts, the hidden mechanics in the gatherer minigame mechanics, the graphics (especially when logging in the rain at night in the Shroud), and just the fact that our combat classes didn't blast past our crafts for a change (despite normally leaving our crafts in the dust in any MMO), it was actually quite engaging.

Tbh, I'd probably get into current XIV crafting a lot more if it actually had more steps, thereby making the act seem less a singular awkward process of somehow instantly creating finished products from raw materials by hammering on a glowing ball of not-quite-matter, and at least seeming to interact more with the actual crafting process. I'd prefer these not be steps added just for the sake of more steps, ofc, but I would actually be down with even levels of detail like cutting my own leather straps to length...
...So long as the exp gained was proportionate to the time required.

I guess that's kind of a rule of thumb for me, though. I like more difficult but more rewarding tasks, whether in combat or crafting or whatever else.

This is so subjective.

I enjoy FFXIV much more (storywise, and I'm a diehard FF fan).

That said, the server infrastructure of FFXIV is ancient compared to wow (server limitations everywhere).
I've played WoW since Burning Crusade and I have to say WoW does a great job keeping up to date, especially server side.
Here you have the server limitations problem everywhere.

If I wasn't such a diehard FF fan I'de run back to WoW.

I'm somewhat in the middle on that, while servers limitations are idd never a problem on wow the actual servers have been kinda wonky until I played which is something I've not noticed during FF14 that much,
However I won't exclude that maybe it was my net not managing a good connectivity with wow servers.

Though idd imho SE should seriously think about fixing the server related issues, I understand that some ideas are worked on but many things are often a infrastructure problem more than simply them not wanting to implement them at this point (last revelead is the reason why dragon eyes are lost upon death).

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

Bring back the 1.1x job quests, Faction leves, Hamlet Defense or something like that,
FATEs are boring!

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I'd be okay with bringing back the same concept behind the original Toto Rak dungeon as well. A mix of exploration, puzzle solving and being able to go on a different path and fight either an easy, normal or difficult boss at the end.

I tried XI last December, really enjoyed the changes made to it and even considered switching over to it as my main mmo. As for the graphics and controls, if you use the windower app to run it and tweak some of the settings it will look pretty clean and pretty. I used a PS4 controller on the PC, it can take some tinkering time to get working properly but its possible, used the triggers as the CTRL and ALT bars and battle gameplay felt pretty smooth.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

I tried XI last December, really enjoyed the changes made to it and even considered switching over to it as my main mmo. As for the graphics and controls, if you use the windower app to run it and tweak some of the settings it will

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Fight club rules

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

Well you don't have to do it. Maybe you shouldn't craft, leave it to us omnicrafter who enjoy it :)

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I would have enjoyed it more, back before they got so over-complicated with it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm guessing you mean Vanilla WoW?

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No, I mean Vanilla FFXIV.

Back when you made an ingot out of 4 ore instead of 3 Ore + Sand -> Nugget and 3 Nuggets + old ore -> ingot etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Not really an exaggeration.

Last time I tried to make a piece of equipment, I remember needing between 12-20 separate materials. I think it was a book? I needed ink, which needed three materials: some sort of mob dropped acid, some kind of special water that you had to mine, and some metal powder. Then you need leather, but the leather needs a mob drop and some kind of gathered alumen-type powder, then you needed a gem which itself needs two materials, a metal ingot which requires three materials, and then you combine all of these together... by the time you do all of this, you would have needed some 12+ materials (maybe not 20, alright, fine) and 4-5 synths before synthing the final product.

That's......a lot of work. For one single item.

I think I preferred Vanilla crafting, to be honest.

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Well if you stripping a recipe back to it's pure basics then sure. You preferred vanilla crafting? Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Well if you stripping a recipe back to it's pure basics then sure. You preferred vanilla crafting? Seriously?

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Some aspects of it, yes. Like I mentioned the Ingots above.

I liked doing 4 ore -> 1 ingot.

Doing 3 Sand + 1 Ore -> 1 Nugget and 3 Nuggets + old ore ->1 ingot is... bleh. that just takes a ridiculous amount of time to do all that synthing. And of course, if you need to make an armor, or a weapon, then you're getting into needing ingots for plates, rivets, etc and by the time you finally make the end product, it's a half-dozen+ synths later for 1 product.

And of course, the time needed to farm all the crystals to do all that synthing too. 6 synths is what again, nearly 20 crystals?

EDIT: The fact that people feel the need to make auto-macros for crafting shows you how much people *really* "enjoy" all that synthing. I mean, they give us a ridiculously detailed crafting system and people simply look up a macro and push 1 button and go make a sandwich and come back.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

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There are more than two companies making mmo right now. Archeage is probably the newest MMO out currently that has the Old MMO feel, but it is heavy into PvP. All the new stuff coming out is. Even Star Citizen which will probably be the next great MMO will be mostly PvP.

Most companies are not even considering making MMO's anymore; it is an outdated format. The upfront cost is huge and if it fails it's a massive hit, (see: Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning).

The hot thing right now is Arena style games and Open World Survival. They are cheep to make too (most OWS arn't even finished).

Will there be a great MMO in the future? Maybe, just not right now.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

No, I mean Vanilla FFXIV.

Back when you made an ingot out of 4 ore instead of 3 Ore + Sand -> Nugget and 3 Nuggets + old ore -> ingot etc etc.

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1.x crafting was even more complex than it is now. You had to make the ingots and rivets, and then the parts (helmet padding, coif chain, faceplate) and then the finished part.

Heck, I think it was ore-> ingots -> wire -> chain -> then parts. It was ridiculous!

No, no, I mean 2.0.

When I say "Vanilla", I mean "Before Heavensward".

I am not talking about 1.0 Pre-ARR.

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Originally Posted by Bobs

There are more than two companies making mmo right now. Archeage is probably the newest MMO out currently that has the Old MMO feel, but it is heavy into PvP. All the new stuff coming out is. Even Star Citizen which will probably be the next great MMO will be mostly PvP.

Most companies are not even considering making MMO's anymore; it is an outdated format. The upfront cost is huge and if it fails it's a massive hit, (see: Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning).

The hot thing right now is Arena style games and Open World Survival. They are cheep to make too (most OWS arn't even finished).

Will there be a great MMO in the future? Maybe, just not right now.

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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen is probably the closest thing to what OP is looking for that miiiiight come out in 2018. Personally, I question the longevity of such a game, where the bulk of what the devs have showcased is just a leveling grind, but it could be that they're holding out on the most interesting dungeons/open world content until a later date to generate more hype.

I'm eyeballing the game to see how the "social experiment" as it were pans out, but I'm not sold that people won't just join exp trains like what they did in the old days and rather than socialize with their party members through chat just rip some music on their PC and only make imperative statements about the pulls they're doing rather than small talk. I feel like technology has come so far these days that there's less incentive to talk to others for camaraderie/entertainment when you can literally just suit up some anime on your second monitor and watch that while you're afk sitting trying to regen mana.

WoW was great in its heyday but it's seriously starting to show its age with that engine. FF XIV had a very awful start but it was good to see it rise up again. It has its ups and its down but I find it to be a very solid MMO. While I could do without the MSQ gating, I always find myself enjoying myself. Unless it's housing. *goes insane*

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Sadly I think the "old" MMOs of yesteryear (Everquest, XI, even vanilla WoW) are not going to be made again.

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I dunno if this was said to you or not (so forgive me) but Vanilla wow was confirmed to be re-released in the next 2-3 years. So it will make a... kinda? come back??

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Originally Posted by Lokier

I dunno if this was said to you or not (so forgive me) but Vanilla wow was confirmed to be re-released in the next 2-3 years. So it will make a... kinda? come back??

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I still think that's a bit of a LOL or "Told you So" on Blizz's part. I think they are ONLY doing that to shut the vocal minority up, and it probably won't last all that long.

When people fire that up and see how bad the Vanilla world really was compared to Live, they'll get tired of it and leave. There'll be a few diehards, but back in Vanilla you needed a stinking group to do dang near anything, even some normal quests that had terrible rewards.

And without a group, you're sunk.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I still think that's a bit of a LOL or "Told you So" on Blizz's part. I think they are ONLY doing that to shut the vocal minority up, and it probably won't last all that long.

When people fire that up and see how bad the Vanilla world really was compared to Live, they'll get tired of it and leave. There'll be a few diehards, but back in Vanilla you needed a stinking group to do dang near anything, even some normal quests that had terrible rewards.

And without a group, you're sunk.

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Oh no, I REMEMBER vanilla wow. I played that shit to death back when WoW was first released. I know for a fact these people will play it for five seconds and LOATH the mofo thing. I will literally only play it for maybe a month to re-live the old hunter pet system and then quit. I didn't like raiding with 40 people, I didn't like spending months grinding minimal rep off of like 16-20 mobs everyone else is trying to kill.

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Originally Posted by Lokier

Oh no, I REMEMBER vanilla wow. I played that shit to death back when WoW was first released. I know for a fact these people will play it for five seconds and LOATH the mofo thing. I will literally only play it for maybe a month to re-live the old hunter pet system and then quit. I didn't like raiding with 40 people, I didn't like spending months grinding minimal rep off of like 16-20 mobs everyone else is trying to kill.

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I was more referring to the people who will swear up and down that today's WoW is just horrible compared to how "awesome" WoW was back during Vanilla, lol.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

[...], but back in Vanilla you needed a stinking group to do dang near anything, even some normal quests that had terrible rewards.

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The only thing I can remember requiring a group for were elite quests and dungeons, with the prior usually having fairly decent rewards. Hunters could also do some of the elite quests solo. I also remember soloing a dungeon once, but I'm not sure if that was still classic or already BC/WotLK.

Personally, I'll probably check out their classic server when it comes online solely to remind myself just how bad it really was. The classic forums are already pretty fun to read, what with people arguing what constitutes as "vanilla" and what not.

I liked FFXI better because for a dated game, it was far more massive than FFXIV. FFXIV is MMOing pared down to the bare minimum, almost to the level of an action game. Something as simple as going on airships and ferries in real time, and having meaningful travel time adds so much to an MMO. Fishing on the mhaura/selbina ferry and having to duck into the ships hold to avoid the sea horror was so much more immersive than the little static ship out in Costa. Seeing people leveling in the world was better than everyone just hanging in limsa and only gatherers and the occasional quester in FFXIV zones.

Endgame is just no contest, even coil was tiny compared to sky or dynamis. The 24 mans in this game are just bosses strung together. The sad thing is that crafting and gathering is probably more involved than actual combat in FFXIV, in a sense.

I play this game ,but I think if they don't improve on the whole "solo everything, group up with strangers for tokens" aspect, I can't see lasting much longer. You don't really get the same level of stories and experiences here. Like you say "valkurm dunes" or "garlaige citadel" and ffxi vets will tell you stories. Or "run to Jeuno." Here all the edges are sanded off to the point where there's little memorable.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I was more referring to the people who will swear up and down that today's WoW is just horrible compared to how "awesome" WoW was back during Vanilla, lol.

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That too tbh...

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Originally Posted by Aronys

Eh, I'm actually more partial to GW2s questing. No NPC to talk to, just enter the area and do various stuff, don't have to turn anything in, it's just done. Much faster and smoother. XIV questing is very outdated.

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Those are not quests, those are FATEs

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Originally Posted by Lokier

I dunno if this was said to you or not (so forgive me) but Vanilla wow was confirmed to be re-released in the next 2-3 years. So it will make a... kinda? come back??

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Like EQ's legacy servers. I think it'll end up the same, too. You'll have the diehards that trickle onto it, but ultimately they will be abandoned. Because people really *don't* want that experience back again. They want some of the new shinies and they want one or two of the old things, but that's not what you get on a legacy server.

I'm positive that they announced wow legacy simply to quell the noise since they then asked for ppl to code it and how players want to experience it, which imho is a recipe for disaster. If they really wanted to do that they should've had already a laid plan of what to do

Also tbf considering how blizzard now approaches content I feel that they have smelled the profit in doing this as such the genuinity of this kinda goes away

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Not really an exaggeration.

Last time I tried to make a piece of equipment, I remember needing between 12-20 separate materials. I think it was a book? I needed ink, which needed three materials: some sort of mob dropped acid, some kind of special water that you had to mine, and some metal powder. Then you need leather, but the leather needs a mob drop and some kind of gathered alumen-type powder, then you needed a gem which itself needs two materials, a metal ingot which requires three materials, and then you combine all of these together... by the time you do all of this, you would have needed some 12+ materials (maybe not 20, alright, fine) and 4-5 synths before synthing the final product.

That's......a lot of work. For one single item.

I think I preferred Vanilla crafting, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

1.x crafting was even more complex than it is now. You had to make the ingots and rivets, and then the parts (helmet padding, coif chain, faceplate) and then the finished part.

Heck, I think it was ore-> ingots -> wire -> chain -> then parts. It was ridiculous!

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And none of those items actually had any ingame method telling you what combination of items you had to put in the box to get the desired item out!

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

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You do realize WoW is going on like 15 years now right? FFXIV is not going to fail anytime soon no matter how much you personally may not like it. The game currently has the highest concurrent subs since 2.0s launch. So again, as much as you personally may not like certain aspects of it- its thriving and its showing absolutely zero signs of degradation- So the devs are doing something right- aren't they? FFXI is still there, go play it. I don't want this game to become like FFXI- at all.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I play this game ,but I think if they don't improve on the whole "solo everything, group up with strangers for tokens" aspect, I can't see lasting much longer. You don't really get the same level of stories and experiences here. Like you say "valkurm dunes" or "garlaige citadel" and ffxi vets will tell you stories. Or "run to Jeuno." Here all the edges are sanded off to the point where there's little memorable.

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You know what my story of the valkrum dunes is? 3 hours waiting for a party, 20 mins of killing mobs, party disbanding. after 3 weeks of this i quit. Didn't even unlock subjobs. You can keep your XI in XI, I like being able to progress solo when I need to.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

You do realize WoW is going on like 15 years now right? FFXIV is not going to fail anytime soon no matter how much you personally may not like it. The game currently has the highest concurrent subs since 2.0s launch. So again, as much as you personally may not like it- its thriving and its showing absolutely zero signs of degradation- So the devs are doing something right- aren't they? FFXI is still there, go play it. I don't want this game to become like FFXI- at all.

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That's a little black and white, don't you think? Yes, SE is definitely doing something right since the subs counts are high. But can we tell WHAT that is? Because sometimes it feels like they don't really know either.

My perspective here is of someone who's played this game going on four years now. I like this game, clearly. But that doesn't mean they can't borrow a few more things from earlier MMOs (XI included). Not everything has to be abandoned and honestly, SE's refusal to do some major systems overhaul might cause me to quit if 5.0 is 3.0 with new paint again. No one will cry if I leave and SE couldn't care less about one sub, but this game does have issues that older games didn't - it's worth at least looking back to see if they might be able to integrate old ideas to keep the game fresh. In particular I hope they revisit how disposable content feels. I'm not sure if there's a way to make gear treadmills feel like anything but what they are, but the rate at which content becomes outdated and no longer "worth doing" means it isn't designed to last.

I guess in short I wouldn't mind if SE borrowed a bit more from XI. Maybe some optional dungeons that aren't instances so I can wander in by myself to get rekt. Maybe more quests that give you a hint and say "go figure it out yourself". More NPCs that stick around and remember who I am after I do something for them. More content that's persistently useful and fun to do instead of being replaced by the same thing with a different take in the next patch.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

So weird that people criticize "modern" questing design then go on to praise games like FFXI or EQ, where leveling basically consisted of semi-afking endless mob train grinds using minimal abilities because resource regeneration in those games was very poor (playing a mage in most of them was bloody MISERABLE). .

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It's the very same in FF14 too. You don't have to be good to grind in dungeons, only difference is it's faster clears. But why does that matter? People slack in even expert roulettes etc, so the grinding part is pretty much the same in this game. You do dungeons to grind mobs and 3 bosses nothing else. What about PoTd? Same thing, then you have fates, same thing.

People praise FFXI for a reason, because interaction was a thing there, leveling up in the open world made people communicate more often which was leading to more social aspect of the game, which FFXI was really good at as well. MMO's will never be like that ever again, because the whole gaming era is different now. Today most gamers have things done half way for them, while back then it required people to pay attetion to the chatlog where to go etc, no circled things on the map or floor, no letters or any icons above NPC's.
People praise FFXI for a reason, because interaction was a thing there, leveling up in the open world made people communicate more often which was leading to more social aspect of the game, which FFXI was really good at as well. MMO's will never be like that ever again, because the whole gaming era is different now. Today most gamers have things done half way for them, while back then it required people to pay attetion to the chatlog where to go etc, no circled things on the map or floor, no letters or any icons above NPC's.

I do miss putting effort and great reward was a thing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You know what my story of the valkrum dunes is? 3 hours waiting for a party, 20 mins of killing mobs, party disbanding. after 3 weeks of this i quit. Didn't even unlock subjobs. You can keep your XI in XI, I like being able to progress solo when I need to.

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And when was this?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I play this game ,but I think if they don't improve on the whole "solo everything, group up with strangers for tokens" aspect, I can't see lasting much longer. You don't really get the same level of stories and experiences here. Like you say "valkurm dunes" or "garlaige citadel" and ffxi vets will tell you stories. Or "run to Jeuno." Here all the edges are sanded off to the point where there's little memorable.

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Oh god! Yes, those days will indeed bring a lot of memories and good stories and bad ones too haha.

Also people keep referencing FFXI when it comes to full of great "multiplayer" content where you couldn't "Single player" much content? Last I checked all FFXI is now a single player game as well since 90% of the content in the game can be completed with Trusts. SE moved away from that 'forced' group play a long time ago. So why on earth would they suddenly just start doing that again when they moved away from it in their launch mmo title? We are getting Eureka- which I'm excited for. But that is as close to FFXI as this game will ever get. It's just the way it is. Black and white.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

People praise FFXI for a reason, because interaction was a thing there, leveling up in the open world made people communicate more often which was leading to more social aspect of the game, which FFXI was really good at as well.

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I don't know what FFXI you played, but in the FFXI I played... once you found a group, you got together, plunked your butt down at a camp, hope nobody trained mobs onto you, and you pulled the same 3-5 enemies overa nd over and over again, and the only chat messages you saw come up on your screen were...

(Tank Name): {Provoke} (mob)!
(DPS): Using {Blah Blah WS}!

etc etc. Macros.

You saw chat interaction about as often as you do in Duty Finder today in FFXIV. Oh, and if you were, say a DRK, DRG, etc.... you didn't even get that. You got to AFK with your flag up for 2, 3, 4+ hours waiting for a group back in the day.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

And when was this?

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after WotG? I had the base game and first 2 expansion in the vanadiel collection or w/e. It was in 2006 i believe.

I like challenge as much as the next guy, but the challenge should not be getting out of the starting area and unlocking basic functions of a game. I slogged through 4 years of Lineage 2, and that was just as grindy if not more so.

You also don't need lots of downtime in fights to make friends and communicate. I made many long term friends during coil, and even though I don't still raid with them, I've met them at conventions and stuff, and its been 4 years since that group happened. XI doesn't have a monopoly on making friends. You just have to try harder in XIV since you don't have extended periods of boredom in fights :P

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

after WotG? I had the base game and first 2 expansion in the vanadiel collection or w/e. It was in 2006 i believe.

I like challenge as much as the next guy, but the challenge should not be getting out of the starting area and unlocking basic functions of a game. I slogged through 4 years of Lineage 2, and that was just as grindy if not more so.

You also don't need lots of downtime in fights to make friends and communicate. I made many long term friends during coil, and even though I don't still raid with them, I've met them at conventions and stuff, and its been 4 years since that group happened. XI doesn't have a monopoly on making friends. You just have to try harder in XIV since you don't have extended periods of boredom in fights :P

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Exactly. Sitting on my butt forever waiting for my mana to fill was thrilling

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Like EQ's legacy servers. I think it'll end up the same, too. You'll have the diehards that trickle onto it, but ultimately they will be abandoned. Because people really *don't* want that experience back again. They want some of the new shinies and they want one or two of the old things, but that's not what you get on a legacy server.

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In the interest of fairness, part of the reason something like EQ Legacy and World of Warcraft Classic might fail is simply because it's content people have already done, completed, and thoroughly immersed themselves in. It's not exactly a critique on "that particular style of game" if those sorts of servers don't see success, because it can just as easily be attributed to lack of new things to entice players. This is why I keep mentioning Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, since as a completely new game it'll be something of a barometer on whether or not an "old-school game" can still see success in today's MMO market with today's style of gamer.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You know what my story of the valkrum dunes is? 3 hours waiting for a party, 20 mins of killing mobs, party disbanding. after 3 weeks of this i quit. Didn't even unlock subjobs. You can keep your XI in XI, I like being able to progress solo when I need to.

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This is probably my biggest concern when it comes to games that are styled around this sort of arbitrary "forced socialization" business. While partying up with randoms and hopefully adding them and becoming life-long besties with them has a lot of appeal, at the same time it makes the game very difficult to break into for new players, and can create areas of isolation for people who maybe aren't the best with communicating with others, or perhaps not as skilled at the game. Heaven forfend you also happen to play an odd class or skill combination, or a race that people deem as having "subpar" racial stats or perks in areas where that's relevant. In games like these where partying is mandatory, it's easy to see the bright spots of open-door socialization while failing to acknowledge that there's just as much room for your character progress being stunted beyond repair due to circumstances relatively outside of your control (JP ONRY).

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Exactly. Sitting on my butt forever waiting for my mana to fill was thrilling

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DURING BATTLE, no less.

WHM was basically "Stand up, cast cure, regen, etc and get on your knees for as many ticks as you could until you had to stand up and cast some more cures, then steal a tick or two of resting, cast, get back on your knees"

Oh, and no RDM or BRD = No Group because you got <3k XP per hour without any form of Refresh.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You know what my story of the valkrum dunes is? 3 hours waiting for a party, 20 mins of killing mobs, party disbanding. after 3 weeks of this i quit. Didn't even unlock subjobs. You can keep your XI in XI, I like being able to progress solo when I need to.

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Or having a non-optimal race-job combination and getting overlooked for hours while waiting for a party. Only to join, get trained and die then have the blm warp out leaving the rest of the party to beg for raises or lose MORE XP.
I stopped before the current systems for solo-ing were in place. XI had it's fun points sure, but the bad certainly outweighed the good for me in the end. My life no longer allows me 4 hours at a time to possibly accomplish nothing, or worse yet, LOSE progress. Leveling wasn't FUN in XI for me, it was a chore. Sneak in with items or someone casting spells that randomly wore off for no reason, eat food, kill as many things as you could as fast as you could in sequence for the bonus, make sure you had your weapon skills macro'd to heck so people would know when to skillchain, constant terror that someone would train mobs on you or someone in your party would walk just a little too close to something while you were killing things, kill the SAME things over.. and over.. and over.

.. please don't put that in XIV or I'll have to find a new game.

Also the amount of hand holding in wow now is insane. There used to be add-ons to do what the game just DOES now. Point you at the quest objective, DRAW LINES TO IT. The only thing left to do is pushing the actual buttons, there's no thinking there just doing. I really liked secret world because I had to research things to figure out quests. My friends and I learned ancient Sumerian to figure out a particular quest and when we finished it we were SO PROUD. Sure we could have looked up the walkthrough but we weren't forced to or led by the nose. There were maybe 2 quests in FFXIV that did require you to think and I enjoyed the crud out of them, however since we've not seen more of them I'm thinking the playerbase did NOT like them, and never finished them so the devs stopped making them.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

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WoW Does the exact same thing that FFXIV does in regards to questing areas.

WoW does not draw lines to the quests, it puts an arrow pointing you to the general direction, in fact, FFXIV does MORE hand-holding, because FFXIV will put dots on the minimap for every single enemy the quest wants you to kill. WoW doesn't do that.

And IIRC, you can turn off the quest helpers in WoW if you want.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

WoW Does the exact same thing that FFXIV does in regards to questing areas.

WoW does not draw lines to the quests, it puts an arrow pointing you to the general direction, in fact, FFXIV does MORE hand-holding, because FFXIV will put dots on the minimap for every single enemy the quest wants you to kill. WoW doesn't do that.

And IIRC, you can turn off the quest helpers in WoW if you want.

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Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I remember there being very little actual objective finding. FFXIV "go kill this thing" quests mark enemies yes, but a lot of quests just give you an area and you have to go find the NPC/spawning area.. which admittedly are usually huge purple circles but it doesn't always point out what you have to do exactly. People actually hated the moogle quests BECAUSE it didn't highlight them on the map.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I remember there being very little actual objective finding. FFXIV "go kill this thing" quests mark enemies yes, but a lot of quests just give you an area and you have to go find the NPC/spawning area.. which admittedly are usually huge purple circles but it doesn't always point out what you have to do exactly. People actually hated the moogle quests BECAUSE it didn't highlight them on the map.

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WoW does almost exactly the same thing. The only difference is that when there's a specific, named mob... the "general area" circle is a lot smaller and when you get almost up on it, a little gold dot will appear on the minimap where the enemy actually is. But that's only for named mobs or major items you're supposed to interact with, and they only appear when you get close.

Now, maybe you had an addon that did more things, like telling you the exact direction, distance, AND drawing an arrow on-screen? I've seen addons like that and I just roll my eyes at that. I don't use those addons. I have at least 2 functioning brain cells that can put out enough computing power that I don't need that.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

WoW does almost exactly the same thing. The only difference is that when there's a specific, named mob... the "general area" circle is a lot smaller and when you get almost up on it, a little gold dot will appear on the minimap where the enemy actually is. But that's only for named mobs or major items you're supposed to interact with, and they only appear when you get close.

Now, maybe you had an addon that did more things, like telling you the exact direction, distance, AND drawing an arrow on-screen? I've seen addons like that and I just roll my eyes at that. I don't use those addons. I have at least 2 functioning brain cells that can put out enough computing power that I don't need that.

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Highly unlikely, I may have mixed it up with another game though. I remember Age of Conan being stupidly uncomplex as well.