(MSQ spoilers) Asahi

I always let characters prove themselves before trusting them. Aymeric only gained my trust after the Vault. Asahi, while at first glance looking less shifty than Aymeric simply due to his puppy eyes, already was associated with Yotsuyu's story of abuse, so became a prime suspect the moment he showed his baby face. I opposed to letting him alone in a room with Yotsuyu without any protection for the woman, by that time the WoL knows enough about his sister's family to be suspicious of his intentions. After I saw her alive, I was afraid he might have poisoned the dango. Apparently whatever she knows is too precious for them to kill her and they would even risk her remembering and telling us about it.
With the way his face contorted when talking to the WoL in the end I thought he might have been possessed by an Ascian, a voidsent or something. And I, too, was dissatisfied by the lack of options in regards to our character's reaction. "You have cute puppy eyes" should have been a valid option.

Honestly, didn't trust him from the start, either.

But I finally finished MSQ tonight and I just absolutely lost it when he get's in my face.

http://i.imgur.com/AnZwmXa.jpg

So scawwy~

If there was a lab to hypertune people under Doma Castle, it would be nearly impossible to get to. The castle was completely flooded to the point the foundations gave way and brought the entire thing down on top of itself. Getting to it would require a lot of work and heavy machinery. If there is something the Garleans want in there, they're not going to get to it without someone finding out.

I like the idea that Asahi only revealed what he really thinks of the WoL after the prisoner exchange was solidified. His VA (the English one) did a great job of coming off as sounding earnest about his motives while sounding "off" the entire time.

I find it weird the Asahi thinks Zenos wants to rule Garlemald and that Asahi is trying to help him get there. That's certainly not was Zenos told us last we saw him!

I still find it funny how nobody even noticed this. They were not that far away and our character did show quite some shocked or angry faces yet only when he was gone did they notice that we were a bit white in the face..he could have just stabbed us and nobody would have seen that. x)

So, with Asahi being named 'Brutus' there's been some speculation that he might play a part in killing or overthrowing the Emperor. Potentially with the intention of paving the way for Zenos to do as he pleases.

Yet what if the Emperor isn't the one who will be overthrown or killed? What if it's Hien? Asahi is, after all, Doman...and seems to have wormed his way into Hien's good graces even with Asahi having threatened the Warrior of Light. Hien seems more concerned about securing his people who have been taken prisoner, so I have a bad feeling about how it'll all play out for him.

After all, nobody of note has actually died during Stormblood. The death count of named NPC's is...Meffrid and Conrad. Two NPC's who are very minor in the grand scheme of things and seemingly only perished so that Lyse could become the leader of the Ala Mhigan Resistance.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Snip.

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Remember, He in is the ruler through blood, and one he takes very seriously. While Asahi may have designs to take the throne, he'll have a very angry Population as well as the Xelea tribes, which we command, who have practiced the arts of war for centuries. Not to mention the skills the Scions bring to the battle.

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

I opposed to letting him alone in a room with Yotsuyu without any protection for the woman, by that time the WoL knows enough about his sister's family to be suspicious of his intentions.

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Yeah, this moment also stood out to me. I was pretty much thinking, "What, really? You're just going to let him do that? I hope you have someone monitoring discreetly from the next room or something."

I didn't really trust him from the get go, but the reason I made this thread -- I just find his motivations very puzzling. I don't particularly get why he does what he does. But like some posters said earlier... I guess we'll just have to wait for more story from the next patches.

I don't trust him since the beginnig . We never have to believe an Imperial .... But in the end ..Zenos ??? seriously ?? he suicide himself how this guy can be alive , and how Imperials get back is corpse ?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

So, with Asahi being named 'Brutus' there's been some speculation that he might play a part in killing or overthrowing the Emperor. Potentially with the intention of paving the way for Zenos to do as he pleases.

Yet what if the Emperor isn't the one who will be overthrown or killed? What if it's Hien? Asahi is, after all, Doman...and seems to have wormed his way into Hien's good graces even with Asahi having threatened the Warrior of Light. Hien seems more concerned about securing his people who have been taken prisoner, so I have a bad feeling about how it'll all play out for him.

After all, nobody of note has actually died during Stormblood. The death count of named NPC's is...Meffrid and Conrad. Two NPC's who are very minor in the grand scheme of things and seemingly only perished so that Lyse could become the leader of the Ala Mhigan Resistance.

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Still Hien does know that Asahi is not really a good person so he should be way more alert than before and I do believe that most of the major conflicts in Ala Mhigo and Doma will be done in 4.x so that they can focus on a new story in 5.0 thus killing of the one that is the new king is probably not a good idea because then we would have to focus on Doma even in 5.0 a lot and seeing how they solved the Uldah situation I just want it to be done with 4.x. If someone from the good sides die it will probably be either Yugiri or Gosetsu. But imo we dont need a high body count each expansion. A lot of people died and major characters should not just die all over the place..if you need death and loss to tell a good story than you are imo not a very good writer.

It would make more sense that Asahi might be bad for both sides. Maybe he will be the one that brings back Yotsuyus memories thus creating a bit of conflict in Doma (with the possible death of Gosetsu) and maybe an even higher conflict in Garlemald itself if he stays loyal to Zenos no matter what. And if Zenos is not the true Zenos but an Ascians..well I can see him wanting to kill Varis and take over the empire. With such a big army at your hands you can create a lot of huge conflicts all over the world and this would be a good way to give us a reason to go to Garlemald in the future.

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Originally Posted by Asturyas

I don't trust him since the beginnig . We never have to believe an Imperial .... But in the end ..Zenos ??? seriously ?? he suicide himself how this guy can be alive , and how Imperials get back is corpse ?

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Supposedly in a cutscene it was mentioned that they 'lost' Zenos's body among the others that were found in the lab. To me that screams of being highly irresponsible on everyone's part. You had his body right there. All they had to do was either burn it or secure it for burial.

In another thread they mention that the Zenos we see is either a clone who had been swapped over or the Ascian who managed to posses the corpse and whisk it back to safety.

In the English version, Lyse specifically mentioned they didn't publicly reveal Zeno's gravesight, implied to keep the Ala Mhigan people from doing something regrettable to the corpse.

So, the whole thing is super sketchy from the start. Unlike with most other actually dead characters, we never had our hands on the body. He coughs blood, delights in the fight, cuts his neck, and "passed out."

So, I'm thinking someone, a double-agent Ala Mhigan perhaps, stole away the real Zenos instead of burying him. It's probably a different body in that grave, and keeping the site secret prevents the news of the switch from coming to light.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

In the English version, Lyse specifically mentioned they didn't publicly reveal Zeno's gravesight, implied to keep the Ala Mhigan people from doing something regrettable to the corpse.

So, the whole thing is super sketchy from the start. Unlike with most other actually dead characters, we never had our hands on the body. He coughs blood, delights in the fight, cuts his neck, and "passed out."

So, I'm thinking someone, a double-agent Ala Mhigan perhaps, stole away the real Zenos instead of burying him. It's probably a different body in that grave, and keeping the site secret prevents the news of the switch from coming to light.

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I like this reasoning better. Still I would have burned the body. Fire always seems to be a good solution from them coming back as anything other than a ghost.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

In the English version, Lyse specifically mentioned they didn't publicly reveal Zeno's gravesight, implied to keep the Ala Mhigan people from doing something regrettable to the corpse.

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Where does she say this? I've seen multiple people reference Lyse commenting on Zenos' grave, but the only reference I found in the Astral Flames MSQ text is this:

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M’naago: Aye, and it’s not just here─we’ve reports of mobs forming all over. They’ve been targeting folk known to have cooperated with the Garleans. It starts with insults most often, then someone picks up a stone… Some industrious souls even thought to seek out the graves of Zenos and his officers. It was…grim.

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That might be it, but I recall the site is a secret. Maybe from another scene, hmm.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

That might be it, but I recall the site is a secret. Maybe from another scene, hmm.

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This is why you always burn the bodies of your enemies. So they don't come back...except maybe as ghosts.

Eorzeans have been shown to largely be respectful towards the corpses of their enemies, however. Besides, if they start desecrating the remains of their enemies then they have absolutely no ground to stand upon if their enemies do the same to their fallen allies.

As for Zenos, I doubt any of the protagonists expected him to return from the dead - especially considering that he slit his own throat right before their very eyes. That itself could have been a ruse, though, if he knew he would return from the dead.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Eorzeans have been shown to largely be respectful towards the corpses of their enemies, however. Besides, if they start desecrating the remains of their enemies then they have absolutely no ground to stand upon if their enemies do the same to their fallen allies.

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There are side-quests in early SB about the fact that Garleans don't allow any religious rites performed for the dead, as Garleans have outlawed religion as a whole (likely as part of their anti-eikon laws, can't summon and empower a primal if all worship is prevented), and that Ala Mhigo's surrounding regions have been having problems with ghosts as a result. All the Bhoots around the Fringes are the frustrated dead, for example.

I would love for this to be touched upon again in regards to Zenos's current condition.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As for Zenos, I doubt any of the protagonists expected him to return from the dead - especially considering that he slit his own throat right before their very eyes. That itself could have been a ruse, though, if he knew he would return from the dead.

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Zenos wanted to die. It's not just his last words; the little characterization he gets besides "Crown Prince Crazypants" suggests that he's depressed and has nothing driving him except his goal of facing the ultimate challenger. Having achieved that goal, he seemed to feel like he had nothing left to live for, and was content to go out on his terms. That's why I really believe that he was brought back against his will--or his body is being used as an Ascian meat puppet.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Zenos wanted to die. It's not just his last words; the little characterization he gets besides "Crown Prince Crazypants" suggests that he's depressed and has nothing driving him except his goal of facing the ultimate challenger. Having achieved that goal, he seemed to feel like he had nothing left to live for, and was content to go out on his terms. That's why I really believe that he was brought back against his will--or his body is being used as an Ascian meat puppet.

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The thing is, we were specifically told that we wouldn't sympathise with the guy. I don't get the impression that he was depressed - he was simply bored due to the lack of a meaningful challenge to face. Then again, as another poster on this board stated we were also told that Garlemald would not have Ascians as the driving force behind it and yet Elidibus is quite clearly meddling and pushing things in a direction that benefits his goals.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

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I recall the Ascian point being that 4.0 would have little to no Ascian involvment. Which so far there hasn't been a lot of. Shisui had some heavily implied involvment from them but this was regulated to side quest content that wasn't needed to proceed (aside from lvling of course.) and the teaser as to what Elidibus can spook Varis with. 4.0 has had no Ascian influence otherwise. 4.1 had none from what we can tell, and 4.2 we currently only have speculation that could still be false...and one could say that the devs were still right about no to little Ascian involvment in 4.0 since we are no longer in 4.0, but the 4.x patch series.

As far as sympathy for Zenos goes, I wonder how much of this is more people being able to pity what little of his sad backstory we know, and thinking they have sympathy instead. Even then pretty much everyone agrees that by the time we meet him he was a monster who had to die, sympathy be damned.

I don't sympathize with Zenos. I just sorta more curious about him. He's still the enemy and no doubt with him coming back, even if he isn't possessed, there is a chance that he'll want another shot at the WoL just to satisfy his urges. He wanted to die but now he's back, so now I'm curious as how he'll react to all of it. Unless of course this they go the silly clone route with fragmented/altered memories.

I didn't see his backstory as sad in the least bit. He was a mentally sick child coddled due to his royal ties instead of aided. "He's royalty, he can't be mentally ill. The royals are perfect. They have to be."

He's like the reverse of Yotsuyu or Fordola in that regard. He has no past to justify his sadism. He's just a sadist by nature.

Zenos isn't the first character like that, either. But, I agree, he's interesting in the way that he's a villian we can enjoy hating.

I think they un-helmeted Zenos too early. I mean the artwork shows him as this imposing scary metal dude, but then he takes his helmet off in like the first cutscene and he's this 80's power metal dude with an obnoxious voice. I hate Zenos but not because of story reasons, but mainly because he's a typical "born peerless warrior who only finds meaning through combat" trope. It's always a similar story. Born extremely powerful, has no friends or allies, but only has respect for those who are worthy fighters. One dimensions as hell. Give us a villain with real motive and depth. At least Thordan was an interesting twist on the Doom Pope stereotype shtick.

Zenos is a broke down Akuma, Jin, Kaz, Metal sonic, etc etc etc. I wanna be strong/fight the strongest. That's all his character is when we see him, and if it wasn't for the fact he's 70 when we first see him he would've got his butt kicked by the god slayer on the first round. Plot armor is strong. Tho him coming back? I want to lean towards it's actually him.. just cause maybe he can live up to his hype and actually do something evil instead of be a wannabe knuckles to our sonic. Or shadow if you're new school. But it might just be a clone or something knowing SE.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Zenos is a broke down Akuma, Jin, Kaz, Metal sonic, etc etc etc. I wanna be strong/fight the strongest. That's all his character is when we see him, and if it wasn't for the fact he's 70 when we first see him he would've got his butt kicked by the god slayer on the first round. Plot armor is strong. Tho him coming back? I want to lean towards it's actually him.. just cause maybe he can live up to his hype and actually do something evil instead of be a wannabe knuckles to our sonic. Or shadow if you're new school. But it might just be a clone or something knowing SE.

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I really hope it doesn't go the clone route cause that would be cheap. I also hope it's not Ascian shenanigans either because just once, like in part of Heavensward, I'd like minimal interference from them. Hence why I was happy during the Nidhogg arc where they didn't show up until the small lead up to the Warriors of Darkness.

I'm not sure I'd honestly like him to come back just having turned out to survive or something. Him killing himself at the end of Stormblood was a pretty logical end to his character arc. He spent his entire life seeking a greater challenge, specifically one that could finally equal him in terms of strength and their distance from humanity. When he finally achieved that goal, even finding a warrior who could defeat him, he could finally be happy. He basically had been living his entire life for that singular moment, and upon achieving it there really wasn't much else for him to live for. I'd honestly prefer him to be a clone or (as my pet theory goes) a corpse puppet for Elidibeth. That would make much more sense with his character progression.

I feel like we need to worry about the doman citizens that will be returned. If they're converted zealots gonna be dealing with a lot of crap.

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Originally Posted by CaesarCV

I'm not sure I'd honestly like him to come back just having turned out to survive or something. Him killing himself at the end of Stormblood was a pretty logical end to his character arc. He spent his entire life seeking a greater challenge, specifically one that could finally equal him in terms of strength and their distance from humanity. When he finally achieved that goal, even finding a warrior who could defeat him, he could finally be happy. He basically had been living his entire life for that singular moment, and upon achieving it there really wasn't much else for him to live for. I'd honestly prefer him to be a clone or (as my pet theory goes) a corpse puppet for Elidibeth. That would make much more sense with his character progression.

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An unwanted revival can be a good starting point for a new story with Zenos, he could be brought back against his wishes bereft of the happiness his suicide brought him.

Okm just finished the story line. How the hell can he be alive? I buried Zenos! Like buried in an undisclosed location! I am gonna go with CLONE theory. As for Yotsuyu, is she and Gotesu gonna hook up? Seems like its looking like that....

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Originally Posted by Phelios

Okm just finished the story line. How the hell can he be alive? I buried Zenos! Like buried in an undisclosed location! I am gonna go with CLONE theory. As for Yotsuyu, is she and Gotesu gonna hook up? Seems like its looking like that....

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Someone told me that during a cutscene just before the Tempered goons attack in the throne room, that some 'bodies' are unaccounted for. One of them being Zenos. I feel that is a huge red flag if you lose the body of someone who was a huge threat and enemy. Another theory is that although he was buried, he might have been dug up later by those who were secretly still working for the Empire. The last theory is basically an Ascian swooped in and nabbed the body, that one is not outside the realm of possibility.

We also have to keep in mind that Zenos had the Artificial Echo so who knows how else that works on his body. Maybe he can't truly dies but doesn't know it?

Likely -ruffles hair and makes History Channel guy impression- ASICANS!

I think...
Elidibus body snatched Zenos and brought him to Emperor what's-his-face, likely shared some knowledge on how they can return the soul to a body, after all isn't it what ascians do? Convincing the Emperor ascians and garleans aren't too different, or they can reach same level of ascendance (exist outside the body, snatch a body at will etc) and thus turning his ideology that Zodiark's way is the true way... that way you have the mighty Garlemald convinced the ascians are what they, the garleans can become and survive regardless of what happens on Hydaelyn. And now the Ascians will have a big stronk nation all doing as they'd say.