What does it take to be considered a 'good' player?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Also as an extra, avoid this attitude.

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Seems like some players are using this thread as an opportunity to bash on "l33t" players. So, can we just... give a description about what a good player is without being passive aggressive? Because, in the end, you're proving to be the opposite of what you describe.

Could I have worded it perfectly? Sure. But I was served a perfect example right on the same page. Settling in with "good enough" does not make a good player and never will.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Could I have worded it perfectly? Sure. But I was served a perfect example right on the same page. Settling in with "good enough" does not make a good player and never will.

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I think this is a good example of how things go in game.

A person can be giving good advice, but if their delivery of the information is poor, people are going to fight you on the attitude and ignore what you are saying.

Your comment could have stood perfectly fine on its own if only you had chosen to not lead in with "Answers here seem extremely vapid and generic bs, so I'll throw my 2 cents in."

The willingness to learn, to teach, and to aid others makes one a good player. We all start somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think this is a good example of how things go in game.

A person can be giving good advise, but if their delivery of the information is poor, people are going to fight you on the attitude and ignore the advise.

Your comment could have stood perfectly fine on its own if only you had chosen to not lead in with "Answers here seem extremely vapid and generic bs, so I'll throw my 2 cents in."

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Like I said earlier, that's just not the case. Most people don't seem to want help and, regardless of how it's delivered, will not react appropriately.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think this is a good example of how things go in game.

A person can be giving good advice, but if their delivery of the information is poor, people are going to fight you on the attitude and ignore what you are saying.

Your comment could have stood perfectly fine on its own if only you had chosen to not lead in with "Answers here seem extremely vapid and generic bs, so I'll throw my 2 cents in."

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So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think this is a good example of how things go in game.

A person can be giving good advice, but if their delivery of the information is poor, people are going to fight you on the attitude and ignore what you are saying.

Your comment could have stood perfectly fine on its own if only you had chosen to not lead in with "Answers here seem extremely vapid and generic bs, so I'll throw my 2 cents in."

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*thumbs up*

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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I haven't made any remarks about the other advice given in this thread, so I'm not sure where you're getting that assumption from.

As I alluded to in my comment, your advice was good, your delivery was not. Did you notice the next couple of replies to your comment? How you speak to people can make the difference in whether someone listens to your advice or ignores you completely. Leading with insults is rarely the way to go.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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Maybe you should take a step back and re-read what people are saying. Cause your not getting it.

Example - helped 2 newbies do their first clear of bismark - the party was a collasial disaster...and I happen to pick that day to be white mage as opposed to Black Mage or Dark Knight.
The whole party was full of sprouts it seems...and the greater majority had no clue what to do.

morale was further blown to hell when the tanks jokingly jumped off the cliff first thing and forced a wipe up front.

Took us 3 wipes after that to get through. But with each time I tried to be positive..encourage....teach.
2rd Time - the idiot tank that started the mess left the party....ditched.
Replacement Tank took up his role with gusto....and when round 3 started - we killed Bismark like it was an unsnyched party.

Telling people to git gud....would have made that an entire disaster. - Instead I focused on encouragement...not telling people to stop standing in telegraphs (cause they did) or get blown off the island (repeatedly) - or to remember to hit the dragon killers and when they missed..to yell at them..etc..etc.

You may think 4 times to get it right is too long.
I say it was 4 times of investment to leave a lasting impression on the newbies...that you can overcome anything..given patience...and cooperation...without having to start over or bicker.
If you haven't figured it out yet....you won't.

This a game.....its supposed to be fun....not a job. Your treating it like its "srs bizzness"
I'd have you ejected first chance i get in any newbie party....now if you where in a savage/ultimate/raid for farming? Different story.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I haven't made any remarks about the other advice given in this thread, so I'm not sure where you're getting that assumption from.

As I alluded to in my comment, your advice was good, your delivery was not. Did you notice the next couple of replies to your comment? How you speak to people can make the difference in whether someone listens to your advice or ignores you completely. Leading with insults is rarely the way to go.

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To add to that, if you can't be nice, at leats be neutral. No one asking to sprinkle sugar or salt, just say what you need say.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

To add to that, if you can't be nice, at leats be neutral. No one asking to sprinkle sugar or salt, just say what you need say.

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Yes! I had started typing something to this effect, then removed it and forgot to put it back :(

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

Like I said earlier, that's just not the case. Most people don't seem to want help and, regardless of how it's delivered, will not react appropriately.

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Most likely they fall in category, unsolicited advice is unwelcome advice.

-Understand your job and role and other jobs and their roles
-Be mindful about how mechanics and how the game works
-Be open to critisicm and advice, dont lash out or act like you know better than everyone else. You don't.
-Be a team player, be mindful of the people playing around you good or bad.
-Have patience
-Know your job rotation
- Be willing to try new things, dont stick to just one way of doing things ( Depending on the content )

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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Oddly enough typically I've seen in 24 man raids after a few boss wipes the people who were dishing out the negativity and insults leave and we clear the boss that people were having trouble with on the very next pull.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Oddly enough typically I've seen in 24 man raids after a few boss wipes the people who were dishing out the negativity and insults leave and we clear the boss that people were having trouble with on the very next pull.

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THIS - So True.....happy adventurers seem to do a better job. Go Figure.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Oddly enough typically I've seen in 24 man raids after a few boss wipes the people who were dishing out the negativity and insults leave and we clear the boss that people were having trouble with on the very next pull.

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I also find in those situations, that 9/10 it's a "mentor" who leaves and everything goes perfectly fine after. And some people wonder why my mentor crown doesn't appear unless I run the mentor roulette.

1. do a lot of DPS, no matter what job you are on.
2. Don't die to mechanics more than once or twice, when you are learning.
3. Use all of your party enhancing role options at the right time.
4. Know the opener for your class and use it effectively
5. have bis possible gear, melded efficiently. Use food and potions.
6. Stay till the end in whatever you do, but leave a PUG if its apparent its hopeless early on.
7. If in a static, show up on time, shut up and listen to your boss.
8. don't vent about anything, keep it to yourself unless its objective and done nicely.


"Being nice" in general doesn't matter much, apart from 7-8.

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Originally Posted by Squigley

Step 1: Be a Lalafell
Step 2: Bite some ankles
Step 3: ???
Step 4: You win the game!

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Step 1: check
Step 2: I'll do that.
Step 3: check
Step 4: Really? I must go bite some ankles when online.

How would I define good in this case?

Decent APM, solid awareness, consistent, alert, pulls decent numbers and isn't hard work to raid alongside.

Being a good player has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice or helpful player, they are two completely independent things IMHO.

Purple logs. If you can do that, you're good.

My idea of a good player is,
1. know your job and all of it's skills and what they do.
2. Do your job first and, if you have time, then do other things such as healer/tank dpsing or DPS healing/raising.
3. wear the appropriate gear for your level and have it all repaired before starting.
4. Do not queue for anything if you don'/t have the time to do the entire run and pay attention.
5. Be kind to others
6. Worry about your job and what you are doing, not what the others are or are not doing.

I numbered these for clarity but they should all be number one as they are all important.
The definition of good players will vary per person.

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Originally Posted by Squigley

*snip*

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Completely off topic here but your character is super cute!

For starters, a definition of "good player" that people agree on. :) We don't actually have that, as you see by how varied the responses are.

The first rule for getting better at anything is to admit that you don't already know how to do it. Be open to feedback. Go look for information on how the top players are doing things. Ask for help if you're not sure. You won't magically leap up overnight, but that attitude puts you in a position to improve quickly.

Second, don't be an a**hole. Seems simple, right? A little bit of polite communication goes a long way. If you screw up, own it. If someone else screws up and is clearly trying, be gracious about it. People don't respond to jerks by trying harder, they respond in kind. If you find yourself arguing with another player during an encounter, you're probably doing it wrong. (Yes, I watched two players do this in Rabanastre last week. Neither was nearly as good as they think they are.)

Third, use your support abilities! This is a team game. If four people stand in stuff and die, the RDM should start raising. Your personal DPS taking a hit doesn't mean anything compared to other players being dead longer because you're making the healers hardcast raise (or simply leaving them dead because there's too much damage to hardcast raise). If you have a skill that benefits the group as a whole, know when to use it and do so.

Beyond that it's really job specific and thus not well suited to the general forum. How to be a good NIN is very different than how to be a good WHM.

For me it all comes down to knowing your role, knowing the mechanics of a fight, and always be dpsing if you are a healer because there's almost no healer checks in this tier. I'd also consider a good player to be open minded about mistakes people make and they should contribute to a healthy environment.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

How would I define good in this case?

Decent APM, solid awareness, consistent, alert, pulls decent numbers and isn't hard work to raid alongside.

Being a good player has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice or helpful player, they are two completely independent things IMHO.

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Finally someone says it!

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Originally Posted by Yeol

What does it take to be considered a 'good' player? Share your thoughts :)

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Main a ROE.

Hmm. I dunno. I would argue that to be considered a good player in an MMO setting, your behavior most definitely is a factor. If needed, you should be able to chime in with some civil tips and advice to help get your group through the content. I do think skill and knowledge weigh more, but knowing how to interact with your peers completes the package.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Being a good player has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice or helpful player, they are two completely independent things IMHO.

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I disagree.
While 'being nice' is certainly not the only factor, it is a factor.

I've seen groups fail because someone brought poor DPS into a group.
I've seen groups fail because someone brought a poor attitude into a group.

^ can't say I'd call either player 'good'.

Don't get offended when someone offers you advice.If they are trying to help you and you get angry about it than there is something wrong with you.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Decent APM, solid awareness, consistent, alert, pulls decent numbers and isn't hard work to raid alongside.

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A good definition for good player

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Being a good player has absolutely nothing to do with being a nice or helpful player, they are two completely independent things IMHO.

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But, a better player is one that can be nice and helpful to other player..

So, good enough is not good, be better..

As you can see everyone has an opinion of what a good player is, some also became examples of not so great players

Learn your rotation as best as you can but also learn about the class like priority systems, what buffs should be used together, also how well your job works with other ones (synergy)

Be helpful to those who do not know and except advice even when it's snarky which is what it is majority of the time lol

Last but not least do not get consumed with others dps unless it motivates you to do better...always exit gracefully lol

I adore people who know when to shut up and back off. Say you're leveling a dragoon, but you're a master at playing a black mage, and you can tell right away that someone's rotation is off. If you offer them advice and they refuse to take it, you're a champion in my book if you let it drop without grousing about it for the rest of the dungeon. The only thing worse than carrying a slow dpser, is listening to someone else bitch about it for 20 minutes.

I consider players that utilizes their job's full tool kit effectively in casual content like dungeons, normal raid modes, and the 24 man raids good players.

As my opinion, good player are someone who ask question if they did not know and correct their mistake if they doing wrong. What we got now most making mistake did not asked question and repeating their mistake all ove again.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

This a game.....its supposed to be fun....not a job. Your treating it like its "srs bizzness"
I'd have you ejected first chance i get in any newbie party....now if you where in a savage/ultimate/raid for farming? Different story.

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What if it is fun for someone to optimize every little thing, always give their all in whatever content you do and so on? Are they having fun wrong then? Or is it just a different perspective?

A good player always gives their all, regardless what content they are running, never settling for just good enough, and always looks to improve and does their research. Then you add the social aspect on top of it, basically if you are nice too, that and the previous combined makes one a great player.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

This is becoming a very...big..issue with me these days...so many are "strutting around like peacocks" and that with ego's the size of a planet. >.<;
Starting to think I should just stay as a "stealthy/stalker mentor" - lol

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The what many of us do, we Mentor with the crown off, it feal embrace with it on seeing so many bad Mentor/people showing off/Kingdom heart Crown/... But the another topic for another time.

How to be a good player: Worship the most popular guy or gal on your server, join their club, and allow them to have every single piece of sought-out loot on raids they so graciously bring you along. Smile when they spit in your eye, and watch them make out with that guy/gal whose heart you tried for a million years to win, while they both make ugly faces at you and call you horrible names.

Errrr... did I say that? I mean, to be a good player, all you have to do is not step in the AoEs.

"Good" is subjective, and you'll never be "good", but you can be great.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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You might not think so but when your emotions aren't at least calm and collective and you're flustered you tend to do worse than you would if they were calm/happy. It's like music, certain music has a certain effect on our brains depending on the type of music. They say classical music will improve your studying habits and tend to learn better with it playing as apposed to heavy metal or something, now this might not hold true for everyone but it does hold some weight to it.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

This a game.....its supposed to be fun....not a job. Your treating it like its "srs bizzness".

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Yeah this is a game with a lot of players, so god forbid to let them have fun, while you sit here and think the only one who needs fun is yourself. Way to go.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So you think that people giving advice by saying "have fun", "just don't be negative" etc etc are actually giving good advice for improving as a player? To each their own but you don't kill bosses with fun and positivity.

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I mean have you tried? Maybe sit down with Titan and have a chat? Offer Susano'o a drink? Maybe give Shinryu EX a couple treats and a scritch between the horns? Maybe romance Lakshimi a bit?

Anyways, in a more serious tone.

What makes a good player is real subjective cause not everyone plays for the same reasons or with the same drive. But to me, know your job and role, I don't demand glorious golden god perfection but I do demand competence. If a SMN is calling out Titan to take over tanking duties...not a good sign if you're the tank. Never be afraid to ask questions or ask for feedback and be receptive to advice and said feedback. One of the biggest ones though, don't be a butt head. I'd much rather have a group that clears after having 5 wipes and a good laugh then a group that clears with 1 wipe and an asshole screaming at everybody. Oh and don't forget the most important rule of them all.

But again, subjective answer to a subjective question.