Before Shiogane:
After Shiogane:Quote:
They're only adding 720 houses. There's only going to be 2,880 total houses over 4 residential areas.
Quote:
What did you honestly expect?
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10-12-2017, 07:37 AMJunseiKei
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10-12-2017, 07:44 AMAmetrineThis is more or less why I hope we get a new system to work in tandem with the current fiasco. The vast majority of players with houses, whether personal or FC, have earned them. We have to give players the benefit of a doubt here and can't assume RMT since there are instances of really tiny FC's and omni crafters/gatherers are just swimming in money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
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10-12-2017, 07:44 AMsorawild34That is true. Housing has always been screwed in this game ever since the allowed for privet housing. Originally only FC's were allowed to have houses and that system in my opinion worked much better with the ward system that's in place. Adding 720 new houses per server wasn't going to change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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10-12-2017, 07:51 AMSendohJinThere was no hope when they announced relocation with zero stipulations. like apartments that was their most recent opportunity to put in new rules and they didn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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10-12-2017, 07:53 AMAmetrine
Housing has been a disaster since day one. Never forget that the FC housing system was launched with prices based on total server gil.
https://www.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...singPrices.jpg
At this point, I'm starting to this that wasn't the wrong call, but then I remember they've had since 2013 to change the system. -
10-12-2017, 08:07 AMShougun
Strong vote for instanced :3
Personal dream would be something along the lines of Wildstar (WS) with players very early on getting a free (story rewarded) inn room (FFXI like), for lore reasons at some point or right away I think it would be great to bind this place of respite to the mother crystal (this would help explain why you can reconfigure it so extensively, crystal mirage - makes soul bound furniture make more sense lol).
As you play you can make the room larger (add rooms/features), add small area outside larger and larger, unlock sky boxes (want your house to be an island falling from space? sure! Icy peaks of some mountain? yea! Secret waterfall? Luxurious apartment overlooking: Uldah, Limsa, Golden Saucer, Ishgard, Kogane? Titan's Heart? On Bahamut's back - go do Bahamut Ex first..., floating above a sea of clouds? Moon? Turn 9 Nael Van Darnus falling rocks, 1.0 Dalamud, Giant Bath House/Laputa/Moving Castle, End of Time (Chrono Trigger), airship? yea yea yea and yea).
Those towers, farms, fields, docks, airports, shops, mining caves, whatever - that they can't do in the current system because there isn't enough room and you have to share space.. not an issue now (well besides cost to make the asset lol so obliviously not all at once; however, some of these graphical assets are already made though (skyboxes and props needed to create an "Ishgard like atmosphere" or "floating island"). Make yourself your own slice of Ul'dah - invite friends to RP in it or whatever.
Can throw Cid and other NPC in for expansion quests, so you're not simply feeding the mother crystal furniture stuff into aether and just really making a "primal home" (although maybe a bit funny xD).
Just to be clear on the above some of it is just changing the skybox (making it look like you're falling through space could be purely a skybox) and others would be actual land templates. Changing the land should work fine so long as you can put stuff that doesn't fit into the new template into storage. These would basically amount to an area with nodes (sockets in WS) and open space for non-socket based decorations, like the sky pirate houses being sockets and the areas in between being great places to decorate.
Not only do all the theme concerns go out the window (it's an instanced area, if you suck at design and mix two complete "no nos" together no one else has to bare witness lol) you can also give players the ability to make nonsense scale and position. To stretch and place things in weird ways, that creative ability will allow people to generate absolute masterpieces - a really important tool in some of the crazy designs in WS.. like cities, Japanese water temples, underground bunkers, jungles, etc. A quick random aside would be I think being able to export your placement would be really neat feature, so the highly creative could share with the creative impaired but financially capable (has money to buy all the required pieces the blueprint needs). I imagine that being a nice forum thread "here is my floating shrine" , "here is my shinra office" , "mognet station!".
Can leave the current housing system the way it is, where they choose to have the inside instance but the outside be the neighborhood instead (or just give them both, people who own purely instance can place all their garden related/chocobo stuff in there and those who own a "real" outside can choose to put gardens there or in their instanced land - so feature wise it won't mean much).
Although personally I've always thought it would be cool if the current housing system moved into a Dark Cloud sort of build em up for FC. Throughout the story there are loads of misplaced people who need homes and help, so get in those quests like the miqote orphanage but for the FC. Place down a blacksmith and upgrade that building up getting bonuses. To prevent some "FC inequality" allow other players to visit and talk to npc too, so if your FC isn't warbucks rich they could still have a lot of bonuses - perhaps connect it to FC alliance idea. That sort of interaction would be a great time for FC to show off mega projects (giant airship in Mists) or something like world first statues.
Beyond some shop for useful and more likely goofy but fun items (and decorations) upgrading the npc would upgrade that specific plot's visuals and interaction*, as you collect the NPCs some will live in the apartment structure (as the FC chooses) so they can make room for new looks/content (like a benched roaster, so you don't lose out on your old work). Because it would be node based the game could load the area better as well ("cute miqo kupo blacksmith_3, tier 4, slot 10" rather than "all that player's ugly junk, who is never there" XD). Could still give ownership of a few of the houses to players instead of NPC I guess, but that might lower the strength of the "loads faster better" argument.
*In terms of each node offering the opportunity for fun interactivity: For example if you had an upgraded orphanage kids would run around the area and if you had play structure decorations (like in Gridania) they'd visit it. Moogles could sing door to door. Gobbies would start a paint bomb FATE war occasionally. Alchemist gives a high exp daily for those below X level and gives free fireworks (that will vanish when you leave the zone, and cannot be sold.. don't mess that up lol).
GW2 actually has a system a bit like this for their "FC" (guilds), but I've always thought first of Dark Cloud lol.
Then because the FC owns the whole area you can also show your airship/boats on the actual screen, up in the sky or whatever. Can upgrade your seasonal decorations to be on all NPC houses too. This sort of stuff allowing FC to have a very coordinated image, as well as having loads of opportunity for group projects. Although much harder it would be cool to see land templates and backdrops created for the FC system as well (like a "windurst" option, or Jeuno for the rich FC :P). It creates a rather large avenue of long term projects that have visible meaning - rather than in the basement and on a UI. A very large super milestone airship could actually be one you can visit and customize as a FC that hangs in the clouds above (being on the deck would be quite the experience when you look down and see the FC's settlement down below). Dock area for Grid/Ul'd might be a problem but I can imagine airships looking epic for all four areas, and boats for two lol.
Besides an obvious hogwarts like moment where you have your airship/boat visit another (willing) FC there could be other encouraged events via game. Like hiding eggs at another FC's settlement, taking part in a large scale mock battle on their territory, that Christmas tree event of course, practical jokes could be like leaving chocobo bedding everywhere on the streets (willing FC), players doing dallies/weeklies/fates at other settlements, visiting a new FC every other week could give the large FC reduced repair costs or something like that - encouraging them to visit different FC with their ship (that brings some NPC perks they've unlocked when docked).
I think shops that anyone can visit is a decent example of a perk that won't raise the barrier of entry for newer FC too much, since they can alliance/visit them, but have to be careful if you had like "100% exp buff, only applies to FC members" as then no one would join a guild that didn't have it.. ever lol (repair cost may be pushing it depending on potency, but something for them to have reason to go out would be good - perhaps reduced cost of airship fueling.. important for massive airships XD).
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10-12-2017, 08:07 AMMysteryswordOne reason why I would've been perfectly fine with spending millions of gil on housing is because it would've helped with inflation. Which, while not the main issue here, is one that SE needs to start addressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
And I say this as an omni-crafter/gatherer: We need more gil sinks. Repairs and teleports are all very well and good, but inflation is what drives the entire RMT market. I could almost argue that we could just do away with gil altogether and the game would still be fine, mechanically, but people would crap a brick at the idea of taking away gil altogether. -
10-12-2017, 08:09 AMJunseiKeiUgh, screw that system. Cactuar had some of the highest prices and no one knew why. We have maybe 3 groups that sold content and probably tons and tons of RMT farmed gil and few players. Our lots were empty for the longest time for that exact reason- only changed when they changed pricing for all servers to be the same. You were either a huge FC, someone who crafted a majority of their time (and were known) or bought gil. People that bought were quickly reported and the purchase reversed- content selling people were very well known, too, from how few could actually do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
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10-12-2017, 08:34 AMAmetrine
Don't misunderstand, I think the current price points are better as anyone can afford a house, but that means more competition. I lived on Balmung at the time, and watched as wards sat rotting since only a few scant FCs could afford homes. When the mass price drops occurred, houses were rushed just like they were this week, though it wasn't half as bloody.
I do recall one theory on the bizarre price differentials being from the Atomos exploit that existed near the end of 1.0. You could farm them in the overworld and make millions on selling the drops to NPCs. It was sort of a seasonal event that was a prelude to FATEs, so they just kept respawning.
Content selling... Christ am I glad that phenomenon died in a fire when unsync was added. -
10-12-2017, 09:11 AMMysterysword
You know what would've helped with inflation? Auctioning off plots. I'm serious, and taking the time to auction them off would have allowed more people the chance at plots as well.
No, an auction is not the solution I would prefer, absolutely not, but if they had implemented it that way, I would've defended it even if I'd been outbid on the plot I wanted. As it is, I don't think I will ever set foot in Shirogane ever again, because I really don't want to be reminded of what I'd hoped to have. -
10-12-2017, 09:23 AMVahlnirAn auction would be more of the same, just spreading it out over a period of time. They'd still be bought and the majority of people would be outbid by a longshot...and still be left out of housing entirely. This would literally solve nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
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10-12-2017, 09:29 AMMysteryswordPeople are mad not because they didn't get a house, but because they were screwed entirely out of the chance of getting one, due to server bottlenecking. An auction would've given them the chance to try for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
Also, this would've hurt scalpers just that much more, and I am in favour of any plan that prevents people from easily buying multiple houses to sit on, as well as any plan that takes more gil out of the servers. -
10-12-2017, 09:42 AMLazaruzYou're right that in the long run, odds are this could potentially hurt scalpers, as to recouperate costs they'd need to go to rather outrageous prices for selling (but even that is a gamble, as I know some people are indeed willing to pay a arm and a leg if it means they get that plot they dream of), but I disagree quite heavily that a auction system gives everyone a even remotely equal chance at the plot, due to the fact that some players have amassed quite the fortune in gil effectively due to spending a significant part, if not most, of their time playing the MB. So while you would solve what was and to my knowledge has for the most part allways been the primary issue with big releases like this, namely server bottlenecking, you'd only replace it by something else, namely people getting outbid by hundreds upon hundreds of millions more then they could possibly hope to gain without getting involved with the Market Board trading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
And speaking personally, I dont know what would be worse. Failing to get a plot because the server hardware is older then it should and I basicly got unlucky on logging in. Or having houses effectively only avaliable to those who spend significant ammount of time learning and taking advantage of Market Board trends to the point of amassing millions upon millions in gil
Plus there's the ever present danger that since what only REALLY matters with a auction system is those last few minutes/seconds, unless players can acess and bid from wherever, the odds are quite substantial for either performance issues (meaning that AGAIN you were unable to win because of hardware issues), or outright crashes depending on how hard players would congregate in the area -
10-12-2017, 09:47 AMVahlnirThis would probably hurt scalpers, but they're only a symptom of the problem. The problem would be left unsolved, and a lot of people (aka most of the player base) would still be without a house. This would also, as stated above, just give people an edge if they have an excess of gil. It wouldn't matter if a person had enough to buy a plot at the base price, it would depend on who's richer and that's not fair either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
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10-12-2017, 09:50 AMMysteryswordI know, it's a solution that treats the symptoms of the problem, rather than addressing its source. In other words, thoroughly incompetent and short-sighted. How much would you like to bet that it's the first thing the company decides to implement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
As to the issue of gil, well, as it is, the system is already unfair. You don't go into a housing ward with a few hundred grand and expect to get a plot, anyway. Most people who want, hope, or even expect to get houses, go into it with millions. And, once again, there is entirely too much gil to go around as it is, so taking it out of the system by any means necessary will always be a good thing. -
10-12-2017, 09:54 AMVahlnir...because it costs millions to get a house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
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10-12-2017, 09:56 AMMysteryswordYes, and that's not fair either, now, is it? Nothing will ever be fair until the company decides to give us all everything for free, in equal amounts. I didn't say the auction system would be fair, I just said it would help with inflation, hurt scalpers, and give more people a chance at the house they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
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10-12-2017, 09:57 AMVahlnirIt's fair because gil is easy to make even as a non crafter. Some have more, some have less. I was more or less referring to those who have an excess of it, and decided to buy a house by maxing out the bid or buying multiple this way. What ISN'T fair is the lack of houses available, which is why people are upset right now. I have a house myself but I disagree with how things are being handled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
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10-12-2017, 09:59 AMFoestriker
Adding some ideas to the instanced housing pile:
Some people don't care for using the exterior part of their house, so maybe expanding on apartments/FC rooms and being able to upgrade to at least small and medium house interiors (large apartments would stretch the imagination a little too much, and imagine a small FC house with large FC rooms). Then doing the 'one ward with each house having multiple instances' OP mentioned would give you the interior+exterior option.
But that begs the question of what to do with the actual neighborhood part of the ward as the plots would be kind of plain if it was just a house with no decorations sitting there. So, as a gil sink, I was thinking about how they could have a system in place where you can bid on having the exterior of your instance of that plot as the exterior that everyone in the ward can see, and at the weekly reset, whomever bid the most gil wins. Or doing it more raffle style where more gil is more likely to net you a win, but it's not guaranteed so it's not always the same person winning every time. -
10-12-2017, 10:02 AMMysterysword
Once again, an auction is not the solution I would prefer. Instanced housing and dynamic wards are what I want, and what everybody should be throwing their support behind. But it feels to me that SE is just going to throw an auction system at us, because so far, half-assed solutions to inherent flaws in their ideas has been their M. O. in this area.
They could just admit they messed up and actually fix it, but they won't, out of stubbornness. This is what disappoints me, because it seems like such a massive turnabout from their attitude between 1.0 and 2.0. -
10-12-2017, 10:03 AMReinaLastheart
Please kindly implement that personal housing :D or add more wards :(
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10-12-2017, 10:16 AMIveriadThat system actually makes more sense imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
It's like an auction, but reversed as the price got cheaper over time. That also means, compared to the normal Auction system, non-RMT people might be able to afford it since the price won't go above that maximum price and only got lower.
In Ultros, it took weeks for the first ward to fill back in those days. Our FC members pooled our money and finally managed to buy a house (in Mist, Ward 1) after the price goes down to 4 million gil (AKA, pretty much the minimum price back in those days).
I think it just makes more sense for housing price to be adjusted to match the economy. Unlike now, where everyone could afford a house and now left feeling like they should've gotten the house if not for server crash/real life schedule/scalpers.
People got reported for buying a house? o_OQuote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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10-12-2017, 10:29 AMAmetrineThat old pricing system made RMT look real enticing is all she's saying.... And when your server is tiny enough that you know who has money, it's not too hard to find a paper trail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iveriad
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10-12-2017, 10:36 AMJunseiKeiThis; sorry, I sometimes speak in riddles on accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
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10-12-2017, 10:43 AMJunseiKei
Adding two cents on these (don't like to edit comments with likes already when I look incase SE takes comments with likes into consideration more; makes the whole thing askewed):
Change that to almost max gil amount to ensure a house. I know there are people out there with more than the maximum gil amount that you can carry spread out over their character and several retainers. I expect most serious crafters to be at or near this range. Indeed, it's not fairer. It comes across as an idea that sounds great on paper, but in execution, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterysword
It makes sense on mega servers that are too packed to allow RMTs to overly affect the economy. A middling server, like I said with Cactuar at the time, had a lot of demand for items (like materia), not that many suppliers that were actual players, but plenty of bots. It was really easy to go to Urth's Gift, The Fury's Gaze or The Burning Wall and see all the bots that were farming with crafter or gathering gear alongside a chocobo. You could trade and break them, they'd be broken for a bit, then continue because the chocobo always made sure they'd stay alive and kill the target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iveriad
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10-12-2017, 10:59 AMAmetrine
I'm often flabbergasted by the gil I see really hardcore players holding in streams and YouTube videos.
What's worse is RMT became what it is today in large part from the sudden customer influx housing brought. Most low pop servers didn't have any RMT until housing suddenly gave players a reason to buy gil! -
10-12-2017, 11:20 AMPyro2hell3
we can either keep the current housing system which well pretty much always suck or scrap and replace it with something that good those are really the only two choices
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10-12-2017, 11:24 AMWhocareswhatmynameis
Ummmmm yeah, Im going to need a TLDR for this.
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10-12-2017, 11:28 AMMysteryswordI have yet to see even a single person wholly defend the current system. Even people with houses hate it. It's just that the company has ignored us for so long that we doubt it'll ever change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3
The only thing we can do at this point, really do, is keep this thread going. Don't let it die out, and don't let it be swept under the rug. -
10-12-2017, 01:01 PMZarabeth
Or they could do what they did with FFXI and everyone has a room they can decorate and grow plants in and invite friends to drop by. I don't see why they can't add gardening to apartments in this game. Or even an instanced workshop where housing extras can be built by everyone. Individuals owning houses should also be removed. It was a bad idea that has just gotten worse. Instead of asking the impossible (a house for everyone on the server plus their fc in the current system) why not ask for something that could (and has in other se games) work?
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10-12-2017, 01:36 PMValinisYet you decided on a personal house instead of one that would benefit your entire FC. This is part of the problem honestly. Still no excuse for the absolute trash housing system however.Quote:
Originally Posted by NosamKin
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10-12-2017, 01:40 PMCelestene
I purposefully waited til 1 minute after. The ones that I saw (3 people granted) that said they crashed tried to get on right at the hour. I got in said I had 300 people in queue. I waited, then got on about 2 minutes later. 1/3 of the housing was gone in all the wards so I went to the least pop. one (4) and ran to the first empty plot. 2 players behind me. One when he failed just stood there. Dazed. Felt kinda bad for him tbh. Then in 10 minutes all wards were full. It was insanity. I do think, esp. on higher pop. servers there should be MORE wards opened up. Why does it have to stay at 12? Making people fight for housing is kind of brutal and really doesn't do anything toward the hostility and rage some already just walk around with.
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10-12-2017, 02:11 PMXellos2099
The auction idea sound good on paper but there will still running into a problem of rich people buying up space. When that happen, the angry would be directed to players itself instead of SE.
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10-12-2017, 02:12 PMBlindheart
TLDR.... I hate the housing situation in this game... Once upon a time I played Everquest. A game from 1999 added housing in 2010. More than enough housing for anyone who wanted one. Surely one would think a game built, and rebuilt, 15 years later could do the same, if not better... It is saddening!
That said, I woke up an hour before sever came up, patched game. I logged in under 5 min of server up. All the medium houses were nearly gone. I found a few wards with plots but by the time I ran to the spot they were sold. I was lucky to grab a small, across the street from one of the mediums I wanted... I didn't want a small... They are literally 1/3 the size of medium... I swear the apartment rooms feel bigger than a small plot. But I had to buy one because, in their infinite wisdom, they had outdoor housing item rewards for holiday quests and I could do nothing but store them in my retainers. As well as locking gardening behind having a house as well. I need onions for my chocobo to grow big and strong... But I had missed out on 2 years of leveling my bird because I could not get any!
So I got a house... I was lucky, I shouldn't have to be lucky just to enjoy the content in this game. -
10-12-2017, 02:18 PMKageTokage
They should open housing wards after the servers come up from now on.
Not having to contend with the unstable launcher and log-in servers makes things a lot less about luck of the draw. -
10-12-2017, 02:21 PMLunafreya
Your post is exactly how I feel. Too bad it will go unnoticed like all these other housing threads.
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10-12-2017, 02:23 PMBigRed5392
this happens every housing ward addition
too many players play on too few servers so housing gets bought up. thing is, this wasn't always the case. I play on goblin, up till stormblood the housing ward my fc house is in was all but empty. tons of open plots this was a year before stormblood.
if you wanted a home, and wanted it bad.... should have switch to a small server. compacting the community on 2-3 servers was never going to work.
also player personal housing WAS going to be separate, but....... players wanted all the amenities fc housing had, so se combined them to make it easier to get out.
moving into a lower pop server will help, the only reason for long queues and server dc was because of everyone logging in. Lower pop= more chance to buy a house due to more homes then players.
we as players should work together and set up our own 1 home limit, but nope we gotta be selfish and greedy buying up wards with alts. my fc leader bought an fc home and only wants an apartment. She uses her fc room as an office. most our fc don't own homes.
this housing is more of a player issue then an SE issue. we players are greedy instead of acting like a community and help each other out.
even instance housing will have its limits, look at the instance dungeon limitations, or solo instance limits (aka raubhan pipin)
instead of fighting and be all me, myself, and I. we set up community rules so players CAN get housing. like if you're an fc leader, buy an apartment if you own an fc home.
limit housing to 1 character on your 1 account, don't use alts to buy up wards.
don't buy a home just to resell it.
all we are doing is making the situation worst instead of acting like a community and come together. no matter what system is used space was always going to be limited, it just shows more on this type of housing vs instance.
and to be frank i played dcuo and eso which does do instances housing, it isn't great. one of the free homes you get in eso is a tiny room smaller then an fc room. its a 2x6 sq space barely fits 2 beds. while the ones that cost 70mil have multiple rooms and outdoor decor.
dcuo housing had 3 layers and no bigger then a small fc home no outdoor decorating. -
10-12-2017, 02:29 PMXellos2099How about different ward will be allowed to be purchase at different time. As in there will be in game announcement like seasonal event that say like for example Ward 3 is now available form purchaseQuote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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10-12-2017, 02:41 PMBigRed5392eq never had 10 mil ppl trying to log on and own a home most mmo in the past peeked at 500KQuote:
Originally Posted by Blindheart
can't really compare a pre WoW mmo to post WoW mmo. -
10-12-2017, 03:59 PMKyouki
I like how they solved housing in LOTRO. As soon as a ward is full, a new ward will be released automatically.