Are FFXIV tanks just players who "couldn't hack it as a DPS"?

Kacho Nacho you are an awesome person assuming what you say and your signature is truly who you are.

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Originally Posted by Ichirai

Kacho Nacho you are an awesome person assuming what you say and your signature is truly who you are.

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You seem a little too naive to be given internet access.

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Originally Posted by zipzo

You seem a little too naive to be given internet access.

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lol for giving praise?

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

I main tank because of the instaqueues. Tanking in FFXIV is pretty crap in general. In my other games, tanks can do so many clutch things in other games to turn an imminent wipe around. Some of all my most cherished raiding moments were from the experiences I had with those.

When most of your ability comes down to damage combo, threat combo, defense cooldown and a couple flashy utility buttons there's something inherently wrong with the role itself.

I really like how tanks are designed for Frontline tho just wish I could TBN everyone.

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Because tanks in this game are designed to inherently have the least impact due to their fact that their basic role functions are straight up wipes if not executed properly. It's why all the tanking aspects are braindead easy to execute, to spare the rest of us of having to deal with the insanity that is relying on people to perform on a critical role that needs high performance to meet a requirement for fight progression.

If you want to have some utility clutch or a role that has the biggest variance in difficulty; try healers instead.

So nice read here about talks of the 99th tactics and double weaves when we all sits on 50th or less. When tank is 3k I'm still 2k and have a long road ahead to improve it so oh yeah, reached lol-grade 66th.

But returning to OP, I think the "dps issue" is something that needs keep on statics talk, because in pugs you cannot rely to anyone's skills than yours, and that the reason I tank mainly in Tank stance, better safe than sorry, and no one complained so far. Maybe switch to sword if I see it can be done.

Anyway, the "added" tank dps is mainly to makeup for lack of dps from dps people (except latest savages, it is needed to reach the tight dps checks).

Why tanks have always to run at least 80th when all the party struggle at 50th, and 99% of times I see half or more dps die on the very first telegraph of anything extreme?

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Originally Posted by zipzo

Seen this claimed a few times about FFXIV tanking. What are your personal thoughts on the skill required to be a tank in FFXIV? Do you think it's more or less than other competing MMOs? What about past MMOs(or past expansions of other MMOs)?

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This is the saying of people who think they are good, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by zipzo

Are FFXIV tanks just players who "couldn't hack it as a DPS"?

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Generally and objectively speaking, just having the hp pool that you have makes certain things easier. A mechanic that might 1 shot a dps if they fail it, may have little impact if it hits you.

That being said, the initial learning curve is higher as are the penalties for making mistakes. It's probably the role with the highest amount of performance pressure, and there is a reason why so many dps are willing to wait 20-40 mins on a roulette than step foot into an instance on tank.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Generally and objectively speaking, just having the hp pool that you have makes certain things easier. A mechanic that might 1 shot a dps if they fail it, may have little impact if it hits you.

That being said, the initial learning curve is higher as are the penalties for making mistakes. It's probably the role with the highest amount of performance pressure, and there is a reason why so many dps are willing to wait 20-40 mins on a roulette than step foot into an instance on tank.

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Probably because no tank plays like Black Mage.

I'd tank on Black Mage if I could.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Probably because no tank plays like Black Mage.

I'd tank on Black Mage if I could.

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Aoe incoming on leylines... *Manaward*..(internal thinking... "Maybe i can blame the damage I take on convert... yeah that'll work. " *Eats Aoe* xD

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Originally Posted by Ichirai

Kacho Nacho you are an awesome person assuming what you say and your signature is truly who you are.

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Thank you! And I am. This is me. The only time I act differently is when I'm roleplaying.

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Originally Posted by zipzo

You seem a little too naive to be given internet access.

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There's no need to cut someone down, Zico, and to answer your question if I think tanking is mechanically hard, I think the role is where it should be. With that said, I've read Dark Knights need a bit of a tweak; but, I don't play a DK (in FFXIV), so I cannot say what they lack. :)

Claiming a tank is only a tank because they couldn't make it as a DPS is so stupid, when you play a job for a long time you generally just naturally get better at it, it is not a question of "Did you fail as a DPS?" It is a matter of "Hey, I really like to play as a Pally so that is what I play." We are not a bunch of programed robots, people can say well this is the meta and that is the meta but come on, how bloody boring is that? Playing a job because number wise it is the best and yet I hate it? Nah screw that peeps, I play jobs I enjoy. If I wanted to DPS I would job on my Red Mage or Samurai or Summoner, if I want to tank I will get on my Pally, if I want to heal I will get on my White mage because these are the jobs I enjoy playing...and it is as simple as that! \o/

To answer the question of my experience with other MMOs, I do feel tanking in FF14 is somewhat easier. This is in comparison to Rift and Terra mostly. Or at least Rift pre-F2P. In FF14 you don't need to do LoS pulls. Ever as far as I can see. In Rift they were a must. In Terra there is a lot more you need to be doing, even as a Brawler.

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Originally Posted by Krovoc-The-Destroyer

To answer the question of my experience with other MMOs, I do feel tanking in FF14 is somewhat easier. This is in comparison to Rift and Terra mostly. Or at least Rift pre-F2P. In FF14 you don't need to do LoS pulls. Ever as far as I can see. In Rift they were a must. In Terra there is a lot more you need to be doing, even as a Brawler.

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There are some dungeons where you need to do LoS pulls, but they are pretty uncommon, and with the trend of Wall to wall pulls, weeeeeell, If I see a caster I say fuck it and run to him instead of making him run to me.

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Originally Posted by Erin_Singh

There are some dungeons where you need to do LoS pulls, but they are pretty uncommon, and with the trend of Wall to wall pulls, weeeeeell, If I see a caster I say fuck it and run to him instead of making him run to me.

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Oh sure. There are places were you COULD use an LoS pull, however in FF14 you don't NEED to. The mob groups in this game are laughable. If you can pull 3 groups, then you can surely pull one without forcing ranged mobs into a nice tight group. And as you say, you can run towards them because ranged mobs seem to nearly always spawn in tight clusters.

Mechanically speaking, tanking in this game is incredibly easy. Use damage reduction so things don't kill you, hit things to make them angry and hit you instead of the party members made of glass, and don't stand in the orange circles (very important). Most people would agree, however, that no job or role is really that difficult in 99% of the game's content.

"Are FFXIV tanks just players who 'couldn't hack it as a DPS'?"
Not really. I think most long-time tanks and healers will agree with the following statement: When a tank or a healer screws up a mechanic they should have grasped by Level 50, people get upset, because they expect better from them; when a DPS screws up a mechanic they should have grasped before Copperbell Mines , nobody is surprised since nobody expects anything from a DPS.

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Originally Posted by Capn_Goggles

...When a tank or a healer screws up a mechanic they should have grasped by Level 50, people get upset, because they expect better from them...

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*Cough* Jump Pot!*/cough*

*cough cough* Oh my. Something bitter was stuck in my throat. *Sniff* better now.

I have an interesting story to share... I got into FF14 when Nidhogg was relevant but I was leveling DRG which was the biggest mistake I made, mostly because I had no idea what positionals were until after I started leveling DRK... I was a VERY SPECIAL kind of newb... also Titan EX synched was main reason I wanted to get DRK faster... also didn't know unsynched was a thing at the time...

This argument that Tanking is easy and Tank players are just secretly people that can't DPS is always so stupid. Worse yet it always seems to come from some DPS that hasn't even properly played a tank.

Tanking is about as straightforward as DPSing, with some extra expectations attached to it. That's about it. You tank, using your mitigations properly and watching out for mechanics, and you maintain your DPS as well as you can. You prepare for big damage moments and handle them. It's not really any more complex or simple than playing a DPS, which is to say there's gonna be baddies and good people for them as well. You do have some extra expectations resting on your job however, such as leading the group and picking up mobs at a decent pace.

But that's about it. Don't be one of those that think Tanks don't have to worry about mechanics either, usually we have ones that are specifically for us and most other mechanics still involve us as well. Not all of them all the time, true, but again we usually have our own to compensate. Some not always directly evident by markers either.

I have all three tanks at max level and play several DPS besides that depending what I feel like, DPS isn't any more complex than tanking so any DPS that feels that way can pluck those feathers out of their behinds.

As far as the original question goes, I've played in pf enough to know that dps don't need to pull much dps to remain a dps class. There are of course good runs, but I've tanked my share of 40 minute runs where things just don't die. I've also had 12 minute runs that were just unexpectedly wonderful. The point being you can play whatever class you enjoy, being good isn't a requirement, just appreciated.

Personally, I started the game a tank and just play a dps job when I'm bored.