Undercutting by 1 gil?

Tbh, I really like the marketboard in GW2. It's like a first come first serve basis. The marketboard in ffxiv is really a high lvl pvp game.

I think the 1 gil undercuts hold back the economy, all it does is favor people with more time to sit there and adjust by 1s, putting off the inevitable drop in price. I don't undercut excessively, but 1g is just stalling the market.

Prices are always dictated by what someone is willing to pay. Simple as that. Supply is unlimited.

Putting something up for vastly cheaper isn't going to make it sell faster if it isn't a high demand item. I'm convinced some of these people are allergic to money when they go heavily under a largely fixed sale history.

/e

TBH a lot of it is SE's fault for shoveling gear onto everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransom

No, the most annoying thing is getting an item, seeing all the prices are 200k, putting yours up for 200k, and coming back 4 hours later to find the prices have dropped more than 90%.

A better question: What is going on in the heads of all these idiots who put stuff on MB for LESS THAN A VENDOR WOULD HAVE PAID THEM!

---

maybe they think the price in the tool-tip is the current average price in the MB

When people undercut me by 1 or 5 gil yes it irks me, but not as much as someone undercutting me by several hundred gil because I know that eventually mine will sell if I remain patient or I could just bump mine down by 2 or 3 more gil. When it's dramatically dropped that irks me to a level beyond sanity because some cheap idiot couldn't be bothered to check the server prices and just wanted to get rid of their junk and has now crashed the market because everyone else thinks that's what it's worth, until I want to buy it back and suddenly it's 3x more than what I was originally trying to sell it for. :P I've seen items worth several thousand gil dropped down to double figures and sometimes even down to their default value, you know, that stupid estimate that reckons your 1 mil trophy is worth 23 gil. That said provided the market board isn't flooded with low priced items I sometimes buy them cheap and sell them at high value.

I undercut to a point where traveling to my area is cheaper than paying taxes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pondera

I mean....seriously? Is there a more annoying thing to do? It doesn't save the buyer any money, it's just some guy going "Give me your gil instead of this other guy". I've been seeing this trend all over the place lately. Does this even work? Seriously, people, you see this? Pick the next seller up on the list just to spite them.

---

It works because your item stands over the one of the other person and its completly ok to do so.

Undercutting by such low amounts doesn't really get to me. What does get to me is when people do it without paying attention to the activity of the item they are selling. An example would be something like glamour prisms, sooth black dye, or any item that sales very quickly. When you look up the sale history and see all the entries are the same date, yet some impatient doofus comes around and undercuts it, that is what pisses me off. When demand is high, you raise the price, not lower it.

Undercutting makes sense when demand is lower than supply, and the less someone undercuts, the better. Some people just have no idea how to work the boards.

The only time it annoys me is when someone undercuts an item by over a mil even though it regularly sells for that high price I put it up for.

You guys want a cartel, not a free market.

Board prices are insanely high so I rarely bother looking.

My retainers are full. My inventory is full. Limits - GC seals, poetics, beast tribe coins (tossed stacks to free up space). Throw away my ARR relic weapons? Bardings? I threw away 7 Venoct coins and a week later they brought back yo-kai. Welcome to inventory space hell.

I'm not playing the markets, I'm sharing excess inventory.

Collect a map, get twincoon.
Need HQ loquats, gather 40 NQ just getting my 10.
Junk in PoTD.
Retainers come back with weird stuff.
Gather for GC seals, get double and save someone else the trouble.

Here, take it, enjoy it, I don't need it. If it pays for the teleportation, great. Collectibles, leves, and maps already pay enough gil for my needs.

We are nowhere near the same headspace when it comes to the market board.
I need space, scrips, exp. Gil won't buy that so I have no reason to take gil seriously.

I mean yeah the point of the market board is to sell things. If you never undercut other people you're going to take way longer to sell items you put up, if ever depending on the item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raim

I mean yeah the point of the market board is to sell things. If you never undercut other people you're going to take way longer to sell items you put up, if ever depending on the item.

---

wich further leads to the problem that i can't play gatherer or crafter anymore. if the retainers are packed with stuff, why bother with producing even more stuff?

It's crafter PvP, duh.

the problem isn't really the 1g undercutting as much as the sheer amount of people updating prices every 10 minute.
i remember one time i had a bunch of aurum regis nuggets and i just wanted to watch the prices to see.

It was like every 30s to a minute there would be a different retainer at top at 1g less then the previous cheapest was 1g less then a new one was up 1g less then someone else was updated to 1g less

a posting fee is really whats needed

and as someone that can craft everything easily i find the market prices tend to be kind of absurd. high end gear is usually like a 1000% profit margin just buying mats off the market board. Whenever i want money can make a few mil in an hour just crafting a bunch of stuff and posting it at like 50% profit then get hate tells because apparently the people buying it are other crafters trying to remove lower priced items lol

Would you prefer them to tank the prices by undercutting by several thousand? After about 5 or 6 people do that, the market is now dead on that item.

I would prefer if someone undercut me by 1 - 5 gil. Then we can have a friendly back and forth! (Although I only really contest it if they've posted like 20 of the same item and it's likely someone will undercut them or they will add more before mine even have a chance to sell). It's when they undercut by huge amounts that I get irritated. I actually get happy when someone undercuts by 1 gil and say to myself "This guy gets it. He actually would like to maximize his profits." I feel like it's a tip of the hat when someone undercuts by just 1 gil, whereas if they undercut by a ton it's like a rude screw you gesture. Just my feeling.

When there's a healthy market, like something sells a bunch every day, and it's selling steadily for 9k a piece and you come along and undercut it to 2k..... I hate you. Because then everyone else matches the price and my profits are sunk just because you're an idiot. You may think "Well then it beats out competition!" No. It doesn't. I'll still match your price, albeit grudgingly. And so will everyone else. :T

I will buy whichever is cheapest in the amount I need, while keeping taxes in mind. But it's not so often that I buy anything anyway.... Omnicrafter + gatherer....

If someone undercuts me by a small amount in a different city-state, I leave it as is.
Smart buyers don't go for the cheapest item, they go for the cheapest item in their area to avoid taxes.

I sell to smart shoppers, even if the not-so-smart shoppers greatly outnumber them.

If undercut is severe I buy all the undercut and resell at my price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Prices are always dictated by what someone is willing to pay. Simple as that. Supply is unlimited.

Putting something up for vastly cheaper isn't going to make it sell faster if it isn't a high demand item. I'm convinced some of these people are allergic to money when they go heavily under a largely fixed sale history.

/e

TBH a lot of it is SE's fault for shoveling gear onto everyone.

---

Lowering the price will often speed up sales even on high demand items. If sales are slow it's often because people do want the item they just won't pay the ridiculous price tag that sellers want for it. The second that price falls to a price more people are willing to pay sales will speed up..

It's kinda like the quest fish in my earlier post. Sure it sold at 1.5 million because a few people would pay that. Bit sold one a month if that. At 250k I sold 6 in 2 days. Because the price was more reasonable. And the fact I sold 6 in 2 days indicates the demand was there. But the supply was ridiculously over priced.

I'm terms of markets in general one of the best market systems I've ever seen is eve online. Where the market can be played from all sides.

Buyers have 2 options. They can either look through the sellers and find the cheapest deal and buy it right now. Or they can put up a buy order for the price they are willing to pay and wait for a seller to accept that price. Might take a day or 2 but will save you money.

Sellers have 2 options. They can either look through the buy orders and sell to the guy who will pay the most right now.. Or they can put a sell order up for there own price and wait for a buyer. Again might take a couple of days but you'll get more money

It's an incredibly balanced market system where the value of items is determined equally by both buyer and seller. And generally patience. If you need it right now be prepared to pay more. But if your not in a hurry you can save a load of money and get it a better price.

If sellers need cash they now they can sell it to the best offer. But if they're in no hurry for the cash they can make more money.

I'd love if the xiv markets worked like that. You'd likely find a lot of stuff sells much faster which increases circulation of the economy. And generally help keep steady prices

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Buyers have 2 options. They can either look through the sellers and find the cheapest deal and buy it right now. Or they can put up a buy order for the price they are willing to pay and wait for a seller to accept that price. Might take a day or 2 but will save you money.

---

Actually many of us have three options. I use the MB mostly for convenience with materials. If the prices are consistently higher than what I consider a fair price I will just go out and gather or make them myself. Yes it takes some time but usually less than waiting for prices to drop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

i remember i was the first one on the market with a super rare item, i wanted to sell it for 4 mio gil. it took weeks and nobody wanted to buy it. i checked several times per day if someone else was putting the same itemon the market too.

so after weeks of waiting someone else put the same item for 1 gil less than me on the market, and sold it withing 1 hour. i was SO salty xD

but however, before that i was thinking i should be fair, not undercut, only set it on the same price, and so on. but since then i undercut everyone by usually 10 gil, because that's just how the market works. people will always buy the item on the top of the list. they will even pay thousands of gil for the taxes jus to save this 1 gil, because they don't understand how the market works.

and to understand that the people don't understand how the market works, is important to understand how the market REALLY works...

---

That is not completely why, though it can hold true in some cases. Its more lazy, FFXIV's whole ecnon is dependent on the lazy, so it makes sense to fit such a personality to have people just click the first name they see.

To the TC, people HAVE to undercut because FFXIV's econ is so slow moving, if you want to sell something, you need be on top of the list. That is why I do not understand people that do it in large amounts, it doesn't magically sell faster.

When are we getting a cross data center MB so Balmung can really scare the rest of the servers? Undercutting people get so caught up in it items will drop below vendor price. Materia has been good so far in SB but IN HWs near the end you could consistently see sub vendor prices and you can just see the tread marks of lower price, lower price.

It must be the horrible interface/coding of the MB but in other games RMT usually clean up all sub vendor price items. But you can consistently find sub vendor prices. So it must be to much hassle for them to bot the MB and vendor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransom

No, the most annoying thing is getting an item, seeing all the prices are 200k, putting yours up for 200k, and coming back 4 hours later to find the prices have dropped more than 90%.

A better question: What is going on in the heads of all these idiots who put stuff on MB for LESS THAN A VENDOR WOULD HAVE PAID THEM!

---

Or same price, which means less after fees. I mean really WTF!?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

FFXIV's whole ecnon is dependent on the lazy

---

Many people don't realize this, but this is exactly how the Market Board is designed, and it was confirmed by Yoshida himself, that they wanted to reward sellers who check the board frequently, learn the market, and adjust prices accordingly. By extension, the whole market tax system and different markets are there to add a layer of obfuscation as well.

To people who complain: don't complain about 1g undercutters. You can do it as well, and you are expected to adjust your prices frequently on items that move quickly, becuase the whole system is designed to reward that behavior. If you want to list and forget, like most people who don't play the market, then you will not be rewarded as much as those whose end-game consists entirely of the market board interface.

----

As to people who do it in larget amounts, I sometimes do it, too. This is because I set my price based on the selling history, not the outrageously overpriced listings that obviously nobody is buying. In those cases, I will undercut a 130,000 item by listing at 25,000 if the price history says nobody's buying above 20,000. And I believe a lot of people who are not frequent sellers who just want the stuff sold will do the same, i.e. price according to the purchase history, not the current listing. Especially when it's something obviously only a few people are selling because not many people are buying; then they can buy my item and resell it at a profit.

Don't expect everyone to treat the market board as a venue of profiteering. Frankly speaking I don't give a fuck about profits on the market board. When I'm selling, I'm selling to get rid of stuff that has significantly more value than the vendor price, else I'd have just dumped it on NPC vendors. All I care about is that it sells above vendor price and that it sells reasonably quickly to not clog up my retainer's listing. Most times I'll be listing lots of stuff then forget them for weeks if not months before my retainer inventories have filled up too much and I need to sell again.

Depending what I'm selling us going for, but I'll undercut anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand..

OH your selling this item for 10k? I'm selling it for 7k.

Your selling this for 80k? I'm selling it for 65k.



Im not a crafter, or a gatherer. I just sell what u get. I don't care much for the market.


Like on my server fat cats were going for 600k. My fisher venture brought me one for the first time do I sold it. Easy 500k. Few days later I got another. Another 500k.

Then a week later (2 days ago) suddenly cats are 2.5mil. So i sold mine for 1.4 this time. Cuz 2.5 is crazy, and it sold fast

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

snip

---

I don't necessarily think this behavior is bad since you tend to be selling one at a time and it will go fast. So it doesn't have a chance to hurt the market as much, unless several people undercut you before it can sell. What IS harmful is when someone purposely gathers/crafts a bunch of one item and does this. People who actively work the markets need to also keep in mind market history and current sales volumes. If the item usually sells for much less and isn't selling as much at this new inflated price then yes. By all means, slash the price back down.

What I really hate is when an item sells so much that you can see all sales are from the past HOUR at some points and someone constantly slashes the price. They make a ton of the item and put them all up for up to 90% off....and they keep doing it, until that is the "new price", when people were perfectly fine, clearly, buying it at the old price. I can understand you people who don't work the market and just put stuff up that you end up with but these people who are clearly making the item to sell and keep coming back to do it over and over again really get under my skin....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Lowering the price will often speed up sales even on high demand items. If sales are slow it's often because people do want the item they just won't pay the ridiculous price tag that sellers want for it. The second that price falls to a price more people are willing to pay sales will speed up..

---

I agree that its better to lower the price if its only selling slowly but there are more than enough items on the market that constantly and daily sell well and yet you will have people that sell their items for less than the price of the NPC. Thats a big case of bad. (I will always cry a bit when I look at the materia market that constantly sells lots of numbers but each item itself is barely anything worth) If I have an item and see that the last sold one was months or weeks ago and there are still others there then I will first try it with the current price and if I need space and it does not sell then I will drop. But I will never get into a market that is going good and drop the price by half or more because in the end you will just lose money too.

If someone just sells all their junk items that they got from runs on the MB for barely anything, I do kinda question why they dont just sell it to the NPC. Less need for space and more left to sell the good items and you wont crash the markets for those that are wanting to profit from it.

(And yes I am a bit salty since a lot of market that are constant are often dropping a lot when I try to sell something for the current price..its like a very bad case of bad luck x))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

Like on my server fat cats were going for 600k. My fisher venture brought me one for the first time do I sold it. Easy 500k. Few days later I got another. Another 500k.

Then a week later (2 days ago) suddenly cats are 2.5mil. So i sold mine for 1.4 this time. Cuz 2.5 is crazy, and it sold fast

---

Well your first price drop is not even 20% so its still kinda fine since its one item and not a whole flood of them and since they sell fast the market will probably not crash from that small amount. But I am really not sure why you let 1 million Gil just go like that? If the history showed that they are still sold for 2.5 (so there are people that will pay so much) why undercut by such a huge amount that will leave you with such a big amount of cash gone? I am quite sure you would have sold it as fast as you did with 1.4, if you put it up for 2.0 or 2.1 but you would have gotten more out of it. I mean its good for the buyer and if you dont care about Gil its probably fine too but I really cant understand why such a undercut is necessary if its selling so well. (But thats just me)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikki

What I really hate is when an item sells so much that you can see all sales are from the past HOUR at some points and someone constantly slashes the price. They make a ton of the item and put them all up for up to 90% off....and they keep doing it, until that is the "new price", when people were perfectly fine, clearly, buying it at the old price. I can understand you people who don't work the market and just put stuff up that you end up with but these people who are clearly making the item to sell and keep coming back to do it over and over again really get under my skin....

---

Especially since you only need to click at one button and you will see what the current lowest price is and then another button to see how it sold in the last few hours. x) Undercutting them again and again just does not make any sense at all for such items since you would probably still sell them as fast as before but you will also get more out of it and wont destroy the market too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikki

What I really hate is when an item sells so much that you can see all sales are from the past HOUR at some points and someone constantly slashes the price. They make a ton of the item and put them all up for up to 90% off....and they keep doing it, until that is the "new price", when people were perfectly fine, clearly, buying it at the old price. I can understand you people who don't work the market and just put stuff up that you end up with but these people who are clearly making the item to sell and keep coming back to do it over and over again really get under my skin....

---

Can't say it's often the case, but one scenario that can lead to that is if someone is going for the crafting achievements.
Started working on the BSM one a while back and I had so many cobalt rivets... So many... I can't be arsed to try and split stacks, so I actually do just try to list them as full stacks at or just below normal price, but a number of them did sit for a while (and then undercutting happened... a lot...), so I could see people trying to unload them quickly since inventory space is at a premium...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Buyers have 2 options. They can either look through the sellers and find the cheapest deal and buy it right now. Or they can put up a buy order for the price they are willing to pay and wait for a seller to accept that price. Might take a day or 2 but will save you money.

Sellers have 2 options. They can either look through the buy orders and sell to the guy who will pay the most right now.. Or they can put a sell order up for there own price and wait for a buyer. Again might take a couple of days but you'll get more money

It's an incredibly balanced market system where the value of items is determined equally by both buyer and seller. And generally patience. If you need it right now be prepared to pay more. But if your not in a hurry you can save a load of money and get it a better price.

---

GW2 does something similar, but it just aggregates all of the sales, so you don't have to look through individual listings. Say 200 people post 2 of a material each for 67 silver and this is the lowest price; if you post 4 of yours for the same price, buyers will simply see 404 available at 67 silver and yours will sell after all 400 preceding your listing have been bought at that price.
Same thing with buy orders.

I'm rather fond of the individual unit sale aspect of the GW2 system, but the whole setup also makes it convenient for people who want to manipulate markets.
Not that it would necessarily be more 'complex' otherwise; just more tedious, I suppose. :-/

It doesn't bother me personally, but as a sort of symbolic sign of respect, I kind of adjust the undercutting a bit based on the value of the item. I know others here have said they do the same. Like, something worth a half a million, I undercut by maybe 500 or a thousand, the price stays relatively stable, and it "feels nicer" to not see the one gil thing, even if it really doesn't mean much. It's kind of a pointless courtesy but at least it shows a little consideration I guess. In the end though, it really doesn't matter, and one gil is a lot better than some hateful price tanking crap like a 50% undercut. But then again it is also a free market, and some times the trouble with those is people will kick them in the nads like they want on Funniest Home Videos.

I undercut by one all the time. Why should I care what someone else is selling something for, i just want my item to sell first at the highest possible cost. The markets on this game are whacked anyways. The real problem is people not knowing what they are doing and posting a 25k item for 500gil. That is what kills the market. Its not competition, its just someone not knowing what they are doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransom

No, the most annoying thing is getting an item, seeing all the prices are 200k, putting yours up for 200k, and coming back 4 hours later to find the prices have dropped more than 90%.

A better question: What is going on in the heads of all these idiots who put stuff on MB for LESS THAN A VENDOR WOULD HAVE PAID THEM!

---

I have to agree with you here. I realty don't understand those selling things for less than they can NPC them. Maybe they just can't math?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarabeth

I have to agree with you here. I realty don't understand those selling things for less than they can NPC them. Maybe they just can't math?

---

I think some people just don't pay attention. There's never really any explanation on how to use the market boards... you just kind of figure it out yourself. I remember when I first started, I used to write down all the prices from the MB of what I wanted to sell until I realized that there was a button on the sale page itself to look at the listings and history. I realized pretty quick but I'm sure others don't.... And I'm willing to bet some don't even realize you can sell to the vendors at all and so they think the "sells for x price" is the market price. I mean, there is no actual menu for selling to an npc. You just drag the item to the npc or you have to click on it. Some might not figure that out.

Sometimes you are filthy rich and just need to get something out of your retainer so you sell below NPC cost to get rid of it. It's peanuts compared to other things you maybe selling for profit. Sometime you sell for well-above NPC cost to cash-in on "convenience fees".

Some markets are artificially inflated or low depending on your server. A more adept raiding server generally has more end-game crafters so the market is usually in buyer favor where undercutting is more lethal, so you can't inflate. Then you have servers where even glamour prisms run 10k+, and that is just an easy opportunity to sink that greedy hand.

Yeah, no doubt there are people who are just trying to unload their retainer so they sell at a huge price slash. However, selling for under vendor price just seems stupid. :I You'd get more profit and instantly if you just sold it to a vendor and it wouldn't be taking up a precious slot on your retainer's shop. There is literally zero reason to sell things at less than vendor value or even at vendor value with perhaps the exception of the coins for people who want to move gil among characters. If your inventory is so cluttered and you really want to unload it and care so little about the profit, just vendor it. lol. I always vendor items that I can't get at least 1k profit off when my inventory is too full for comfort.

The biggest problem seems to be oversaturation of the market. That's when the undercutting really gets out of control. Like the "Alumen bidding war of 2017". The market became overloaded with Alumen, and everyone was trying to undercut everyone else. It got to the point where I just gave up trying to sell Alumen on the MB. I think a lot of the recent undercutting has to do with the new housing coming with the latest patch. People are selling off what they can, in order to have the gil for a piece of the Far East.

Undercutting by 1 puts your item at the top, and doesn't tank the price. I do this pretty much all the time. Sometimes I cut it by a few hundred, but usually just 1...unless someone's really overpricing something, then I'll list it for whatever the item sold for last.

If the item I want is up for 999 gil and 1,000 gil, I'll always buy the 1,000 gil version (assuming taxes aren't a factor). The guy who had his up for 1,000 has had it up longer, and deserves the gil more.

I personally undercut by the approximate tax price.
1g undercuts are rather pointless. You are basically banking on the item being in the same region as the retainer you're undercutting, and/or the same region the player is buying from, or the player who is buying is oblivious to the tax system.

Undercutting by the rough tax amount does a few things - it opens your item up to be a higher priority in all regions to those who actually know how the tax system works and it also puts your item at the top of the list for those that are oblivious to taxes or are in the same region as your retainer. Finally it doesn't completely tank the price because tax is a small percentage of the item value..

Huge undercuts are unnecessary though, unless the item itself is just flat out overpriced to begin with and is stagnant.

However if undercuts get you salty, then you shouldn't be in the crafting business. Because it's going to happen - in every game and every market where prices are visible. Just have to accept the fact that people are going to undercut you - by 1g or 100k gil.. It happens. Just learn to adjust the items you focus on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pondera

It doesn't save the buyer any money

---

Yes it does, it saves the buyer 1 gil.

for me he was trolling, he didn't even got back to the thread after 8 pages of answers XD