Kicked for not using Goad

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Originally Posted by Gallus

Asking for goad no. Asking for goad and then kicking yes.

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No? By that logic, if I said "use more cooldowns" to a tank and then kicking them that'd be harassment as well.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

No? By that logic, if I said "use more cooldowns" to a tank and then kicking them that'd be harassment as well.

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It can be considered harassment (and just general douchebaggery) because the OP asked for a second to switch out his role skills to include Goad, and the tank just wasn't having that apparently and kicked them anyways. From the OP's side of things, it appeared that he had every intention of switching out something so that he could Goad the tank, but they couldn't be arsed to wait the 15 seconds it takes to just swap the skills out.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It can be considered harassment (and just general douchebaggery) because the OP asked for a second to switch out his role skills to include Goad, and the tank just wasn't having that apparently and kicked them anyways. From the OP's side of things, it appeared that he had every intention of switching out something so that he could Goad the tank, but they couldn't be arsed to wait the 15 seconds it takes to just swap the skills out.

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That's... still not harassment. Just because OP doesn't like what happened doesn't mean they were harassed.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

That's... still not harassment. Just because OP doesn't like what happened doesn't mean they were harassed.

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And it's still an inexcusable behavior on the behalf of the tank to kick and not even allow for the OP to swap out their cross-role skills, which they asked for a moment to do since the tank was apparently having so many TP issues to ask for a Goad, if the OP's account is accurate.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

And it's still an inexcusable behavior on the behalf of the tank to kick and not even allow for the OP to swap out their cross-role skills, which they asked for a moment to do since the tank was apparently having so many TP issues to ask for a Goad, if the OP's account is accurate.

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Mildly jerk move? Yes. Harassment? No. Also there's nothing that suggests that that's why OP was kicked or if it was even the tank that did it.
We only have a portion of the story and OP's speculation.

I never understood why people get upset over being kicked, never had the need to kick someone before or have been kicked but from my understanding you need two out of the three people to vote yes for it to go through right? If two out of those three people felt the person was not a good fit for the group I do not think it is unreasonable for them to remove the element that is impeding their enjoyment, no matter how trifling it may appear.

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Originally Posted by Curcio

If you are the only melee in the party (in a dungeon, doing AoE pulls), you have Goad for the tank.

If there are two melees in the party, they Goad each other.

Period. There is no real justification to not have Goad in dungeon parties. Invigorate is not enough to keep AoE sustainable with chained pulls.

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I had Goad on my bars for the longest time and never had to use it. I replaced it with something more useful and still have never found myself in a situation where I could have a use for it, even after lots of large pulls. I don't understand how Invigorate isn't more than enough to keep you going unless you're doing big pulls and then failing to down them in a timely manner. I could understand before 4.0, but with SB's cost reduction most classes run close to TP positive. Even with Rockbreaker spam my previously TP-bleeding MNK has to really try to bottom out before a fight ends. And even with a Jeff Gordon tank I usually have time to get most of my TP back before the next pack.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I never understood why people get upset over being kicked

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Because it's a waste of all the time you spent in queue plus whatever time you spent in the dungeon. I imagine it's especially annoying if it appears to be for an arbitrary reason or no reason at all. I don't know, I've only ever been kicked twice. Once was requested by me because my connection was so terrible at the time I couldn't stay online long enough to just drop group (I didn't even have time to type, I ended up having to write my message in notepad and paste it into chat the instant I logged in and hoped I could press enter before the game dropped me again--it was that bad). The other time was in a PvP match because I told my alliance to stop ignoring objectives just to chase a single WHM around half of the map.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Tanks dont get to have it both ways.. you dont get to do super pulls and then cry about somebody not using Goad on you... sorry tank but i used my goad on the other DPS whos TP is sucked up trying to AOE down your massive "look at my giant e-peen" pulls... and hopefully their goad comes to replenish my TP in return...

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Giant pulls are a lot better for TP than repeated small ones.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Because it's a waste of all the time you spent in queue plus whatever time you spent in the dungeon. I imagine it's especially annoying if it appears to be for an arbitrary reason or no reason at all.

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So you are saying people dislike getting kicked because it is a waste of time spent inside the dungeon, so one players time has more inherent value over the two other people required to have the vote to pass?

If someone is annoyed because of the time spent they should understand when two other people vote to kick them since maybe they feel the presence of the one person is a waste of their time for whatever reason. If time is a the reason then the players that did the kicking felt they should not have to wait an extra 15 seconds, to them that was a waste of time so they removed the factor that caused that wasted time.

If someone get annoyed about being kicked because they feel the reason is arbitrary, who are we to dictate what a valid reason is to kick someone? No matter the intent fact of the matter is majority rules, you need a majority to pass a vote getting annoyed or upset because the group did not align with you and felt the vote was valid no matter the reason just seems silly to me. When you get into the realm of wanting to police vote kick it would only cause more issues overall, probably would result in a more toxic run.

As bad as this may sound for me saying it.... I bet you now have goad on your bar right? Lesson learnt. Move on

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Originally Posted by Awha

So you are saying people dislike getting kicked because it is a waste of time spent inside the dungeon[...]

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Yes, I understand all of this. I'm an advocate of using the vote dismiss function when the need warrants it. I was answering your specific inquiry as to why the kicked people might feel the way they do. How the rest of the group may feel and their reasoning for initiating the kick is entirely independent from how the kicked person feels. In no way am I saying groups can't or shouldn't be able to decide what constitutes a valid reason on their own (though according to SE, there is such thing as abuse of the system, so the line is drawn somewhere). Majority does rule, but that doesn't mean you don't reserve the right to be upset if the group rules against you.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Snip . . .

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The party that initiated and were successful with the vote kick more then likely really do not care how it may effect the person that was removed, for all we know they may even be joking about while they progress with the content.

Here we have someone that was removed trying to downplay the actions of the group because their mindsets did not align. Just seems like a huge waste of time, I get seeking validation helps ease the sting of defeat, but as someone else said before fairly certain the OP runs goad now, so while the OP rant did not amount to much, the vote kick got the OP to remember goad. The removal accomplished something. Can the say be said for getting annoyed about being removed from a group?

Hell I here on a phone responding to a forum post during homeroom so I am also wasting my time, so that was just my two cents.

i've never even been in a group where someone even needed goad, much less asking/requiring it...

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Originally Posted by HarassMe

i've never even been in a group where someone even needed goad, much less asking/requiring it...

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My condolences.

In expert roulette I always need goad because I have to spam aoes to down the wall to wall while dealing with aoe dropoff... unfortunately 90% of the time I'm paired with a caster so no goad for me...

I've mained as a Ninja and Monk for the longest time and have never once had to use goad. Hell I took it off my skill bar after a year because I never had need for it.

I just think there's a lot of dickhead tanks in this game. I just started playing dps classes the last few weeks and most tanks suck flat out and don't understand what tanking is, how to sustain themselves, or how to manage their own resources. And when things don't go their way they blame everyone else and start kicking. When I tank I pace myself and every run is smooth, without incident and relaxed. When I'm healing or playing dps I noticed most tanks want to try to pull half the dungeon on top of them and when they die they blame the healer or the dps for not burning fast enough. To be fair I've met alot of really nice, friendly relaxed players that I enjoy playing with, but when the assholes come out it leads me to blacklist them and hope I never bump into them again.

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Originally Posted by Awha

If someone get annoyed about being kicked because they feel the reason is arbitrary, who are we to dictate what a valid reason is to kick someone? No matter the intent fact of the matter is majority rules, you need a majority to pass a vote getting annoyed or upset because the group did not align with you and felt the vote was valid no matter the reason just seems silly to me. When you get into the realm of wanting to police vote kick it would only cause more issues overall, probably would result in a more toxic run.

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thats not true at all. people instinctual follow others, and when they vote their not thinking for themselves, their just following the lead of the one that started the vote. Unless the person is afk trying to get a free ride I think it's asinine to kick in a 4 man, it's not that deep and if the other 3 cant keep the group together they should re-evaluate their own play-styles or stop pugging.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I don't understand how Invigorate isn't more than enough to keep you going unless you're doing big pulls and then failing to down them in a timely manner.

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This happens way more often then not for me. I do my Exs on DRG or SAM, and I'm always running dry on TP even when Invig is on CD

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Originally Posted by Lowanthal

thats not true at all. people instinctual follow others, and when they vote their not thinking for themselves, their just following the lead of the one that started the vote. Unless the person is afk trying to get a free ride I think it's asinine to kick in a 4 man, it's not that deep and if the other 3 cant keep the group together they should re-evaluate their own play-styles or stop pugging.

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Just say you don't like being kicked and go, no need to make things up to try and prove a point.

If I get kicked because super-tank can't manage their tp and I don't goad them oh well... I may just requeue the same dungeon as party in progress as soon as I'm out and hope to get the same group... not like these tanks worry about my tp before rushing into a boss fight after a wall to wall pull...

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Originally Posted by HarassMe

i've never even been in a group where someone even needed goad, much less asking/requiring it...

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So you are always in dungeons with physical classes who don't use aoe. #feelsbadman

I would report the tank. When I got kicked by tank once because couldn't keep her healed because she was under geared and didn't try to dodge any attacks and didn't use any off her defense buffs. I reported her and 5 minutes later gm contacted me and hold them what happened. they said that tank abused kicking and could be banned for it. I use to tank a lot and don't remember once every needing goad ever.

I think one of the larger problems when it comes to online interactions is everyone assumes the smallest sleight against them is harassment. That's not just an FFXIV thing. It really makes legitimate harassment cases harder to address because everyone's crying over the small things and distracting attention from the real issues.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

So you are always in dungeons with physical classes who don't use aoe. #feelsbadman

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lul... just in groups where the mobs are dead before TP runs out.

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Originally Posted by HarassMe

lul... just in groups where the mobs are dead before TP runs out.

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So you are either not paying attention to your group (aka. i don't give a sh.. about your tp) or you are not running in DF otherwhise the mobs won't die fast enough.

It was your fault for not having Goad. There's no reason not to have it. You were in the wrong, and they were fully in the right when they kicked you. Learn from this and move on.

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Originally Posted by Alash

It was your fault for not having Goad. There's no reason not to have it. You were in the wrong, and they were fully in the right when they kicked you. Learn from this and move on.

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I assume you didn't even read the OP and have no idea how easy it is to sustain tp at that level as a warrior. No reason for the warrior to be running out of tp by Dzemael. as far as we know, the player was asked a single time for goad on the final pull of the dungeon before the last boss and was unceremoniously kicked, forcing him to miss out on the single greatest gain of xp for the whole dungeon out of apparent pettiness.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I may just requeue the same dungeon as party in progress as soon as I'm out and hope to get the same group...

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As far as I'm aware, they've changed it so you cannot queue into the same group you've been removed from.
Probably for the best.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

As far as I'm aware, they've changed it so you cannot queue into the same group you've been removed from.
Probably for the best.

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Yep!

I as a tank was kicked from Baeslar's Wall due to poor communication from all of us.

I instantly did a mass pull without asking if I should, and we wiped. The healer complained about it, but no big deal.
One of the DPS then told me to pull one small pack at a time, so I did.
The other DPS then complained that pulls were too slow.
The healer then said I can mass but stay in his line of sight.

I proceeded to NOT comply with the mass pull or the multiple pulls. The DPS who said to pull one at a time then asked if I can pull more, but the healer said that I shouldn't because I was a WAR, not a PLD.

I ignored it all and kept it normal. I was kicked at the first chance they were able to. I was unable to rejoin them.

Funny thing is, I asked an FC buddy to queue in progress for that dungeon (I tricked him, saying I was there). He ended up eating the penalty (the kills were slow and then the healer kept dying to boss). Talk about being SLOPPYYYYYYY!