Well you would replace the utility with something tanking and damage relevant. doesn't have to be dullQuote:
Originally Posted by GeekMatt
Remove PLD Utility?
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07-31-2017, 04:55 PMStarkbeaumont
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07-31-2017, 05:00 PMKalocin
Leave Paladin alone, add more to War and Drk. Consider each job a tree with a direct line, each branch off is something different. The less of those, the more they all behave like that one line. Gist version: Homogenization, which is currently becoming an issue to begin with.
They got one job right, that's great and we need to leave it that way so they can focus on adding more to the other jobs.
What they need to stop doing is extreme knee-jerk actions which is why Paladins seem so great by comparison now, they hacked off the limbs and branches of the other jobs. -
08-01-2017, 12:29 AMShinkyoI think the thread is supposed to be sarcastic in a sense that some vocal people are saying "DPS is King, Utility is unecessary".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalocin
So following that mindset, PLD should have no issue being stripped of "unecessary" skill.
Nobody in their right mind wants that to happen... -
08-01-2017, 01:19 AMTufelhundenNailed it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
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08-01-2017, 01:55 AMovImYes, I honestly would hate if PLD had its raid mitigation removed, the class does not need a nerf, as I have said numerous times in the forum before. This threat is a thought experiment based on the very response you have quoted there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
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08-02-2017, 12:36 AM347SPECTRE
The way I see it is, they really shouldn't have thrown all DRKs utility into the Cross Roll clusterduck, that was an entirely stupid move and completely unnecessary, this wouldn't even be a conversation if they didnt pull that BS.
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08-02-2017, 02:32 AMDizzy_DerpYes it does. Pld is in serious need of a nerf.Quote:
Originally Posted by ovIm
Tanks already do enough damage we don't need to keep bugging the others to compete with it. Pld is simply busted. Most utility and most damage is never going to be okay and with it's toolset it really needs to be taken down from where it's at. The simple fix would be to just remove it's dots. -
08-02-2017, 03:46 AMPhoenicia
SO imagine if SAM had the following:
1. 20% ahead of the next highest DPS (which is true in all cases except BLM).
2. Slashing Resistance Down.
3. Piercing Resistance Down.
3. Trick Attack.
4. Shadewalker.
5. Battle Litany.
6. Foe Requiem.
Now tell me of ANY reason to bring anything other than 2 SAM in melee if not for the LB penalty.
Even easier imagine NIN doing the same DPS as SAM while keeping everything else the same.
That is exactly the situation of the tanks right now. Because right now, PLD has the following:
1. Same or higher DPS compared to the other two tanks.
2. Roughly same mitigation as WAR and miles ahead of DRK.
3. All forms of utility previously available to DRK is now available to PLD via role.
4. 4 forms of unique utility not available to ANY other class or role in game in the forms of Cover (which makes you take 20% less than the other target would), Divine Veil (AoE TBN), Passage of Arms (50% better than SCH/AST bubbles) and CD sharing via Intervention.
5. Only tank that can emergency heal allies via Clemency. Albeit at massive cost to DPS.
Think and ponder carefully why such is the case then tell me that PLD does not either need a DPS nerf or utility removal, inversely the other tanks need to be at least 10% ahead in DPS, which is 300+ DPS in our current gear levels.
~ Phoenicia ~ -
08-02-2017, 04:15 AMovImHere is the thing, I am a huge friend of buffs over nerfs, as buffs are generally met with more positive feelings than negative ones. I, personally, think that both DRK and WAR need some raid mitigation back to be able to compete with the DPS and the raid mitigation abilities a PLD brings. I am against a PLD nerf because I would prefer seeing a buff to both DRK and WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia
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08-02-2017, 04:42 PMPhoeniciaI'm not really asking for a nerf. I can finally enjoy PLD because I feel useful and strong. I'm just pointing out the giant elephant in the room for everyone that tries to ignore it when they laughably say: "Tanks are balanced because same DPS" or something of the same level of hilarity. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by ovIm
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08-02-2017, 07:06 PMWarkupo
Sometimes you're ahead, often you are behind. PLD weren't great for a lot of 2.0 and a lot of Heavensward. WAR was king for a good long while. We're over-compensated right now because SE balances things with a truck of cement, and nerfs things with a chainsaw. I expect PLD to fall out of favor again by 5.0, so I'll just enjoy it while it's here and be glad I have friends to play the game with instead of whatever all of you have.
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08-02-2017, 08:53 PMaqskerorokero
I just can't stand this double standard shit. People who are pro dps meta, who talk shit about tenacity, who is all bis and damage is king mentality is here to complain about pld's utilities which are only mitigation oriented. For some reason, ppl even say pld do not loss dps while doing those things....wth???
clemency is a total gcd dps loss...
poa? it is the most powerful party mitigation and while doing it you loss TOTAL dps for the duration....and for stances? so ShO is great now? immediate mitigation? remember for dps stances the other 2 tanks got immediate dps gain! pld feels gain only after 3 gcd!!!
Paladin is not nearly godlike like warrior was, all things that paladin has right now are what should have back then in3.0 to be even with other tanks...
remember pld weak cuz of meta? right now warrior is "out" cuz meta too, cuz every so called best comp have sam and nin, if not slashing debuff of war is still utility king.