I'm just not getting the Samurai hype, what am I missing?

Its difficult to know why it is you are not liking SAM. Without seeing your play we dont know if there is something you are missing. It could be the case that it just doesn't click with you. I love tanking and have leveled them all at various points, but PLD has just never meshed with my play style. Sometimes that just happens.

That being said at a high level of play SAM becomes more difficult than some of these posts seem to suggest. At a base level you can play the class slow and passively and pretend to do big dps because you Midare occasionally, but that is not how the class is optimally played. The Kenki management is arguably one of the most dynamic job gauges available, Sen must be generated and spent appropriately, positional requirements for dps, and you must maintain proper timing on 3 buffs and a DoT. SAM has moments where it slowy builds it resources and moments where it builds them in burst, that has to be managed so as to not overfill resources or lose buffs. Downtime is punishing because SAM requires all of their buffs to maintain their high dps and while you do have mobile abilities to help with this, they come at a steep cost to your dps.

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Originally Posted by Chronons

That being said at a high level of play SAM becomes more difficult than some of these posts seem to suggest.

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See this is my thing, I'm kind of banking on having Hagakure so I can control kenki and sen for a more dynamic rotation.

I don't dislike the class right now but without hagakure it feels like 1 dot 123 hit 123 hit rinse and repeat

Honestly, it sounds like you're trying to force yourself to like SAM because it's the new hot thing or how people are talking it up. If it's not clicking ya don't have to force it. Hell I prefer Summoner over BLM and the 11 darling Red Mage cause of reasons I won't get in to here, meta be damned.
The quickest way to kill how you feel about something is trying to force it when it's not enjoyable

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

I don't dislike the class right now but without hagakure it feels like 1 dot 123 hit 123 hit rinse and repeat

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I mean, until you get Hagakure your not really wrong about that^

Once you get Hagakure the rotation becomes much more dynamic. The reason for that is that using Hagakure on 3 Sen is actually worth more potency than a Kaiten Midare. So you have a rotation where you prioritize Buffs >Kaiten DoT > 3 Sen Hagakure > Kaiten Midare > Shinten. That helps break up the feeling of repetition quite a bit, because every 3 Sen is no longer a Midare. Doing the correct positionals as well as using Hagakure on the three Sen will give you a huge number of Kenki to spend on Shinten. You will weave these in as you re-build your Sen.

Whenever people ask my how the job plays I describe it as playing WAR at NIN speed. However, it is obvious that SAM is finely tuned for lvl 70. It didnt feel right to me either until 68-70.

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

I'm sitting on my 62 Samurai and thinking I might have to go level up a monk or something else as it's just "popping" for me, EVERYONE seems to be enjoying it though and I feel like I'm missing something.

I leveled it all the way to 62 because I was told the 2 abilities at 62 change the class dramatically but once I got there I was dissapointed.

The rotation seems incredibly slow still with the long GCD and ramp up compared to something like NIN. I want to like it because it's aesthetics appeal to me but it just feels so slow and methodical with little to know decision making.

AGAIN I am only 62 on mine but Im feeling a wave of disappointment so I am switching back to NIN for now, maybe MNK, I bought into the SAM hype and don't really have any back up mains.

What am I missing?

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you need to get to 68-70 and it the most fast ans fun thing in the game

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Positional only affect Kenki gain, and are thus not a high priority.

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I gagged. Hard. Kenki is where the bulk of your dps lies.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

I've read that above 45 Kenki, you should be using the attack, but I just don't feel the power behind that attack. Feels like it's a wet noodle hitting the mob. I get more oomph using it on those last two skills.

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If you're kaitening Gekka+Kesho, you're actually losing a lot of damage. Nearly enough to cancel out the positional entirely, in fact, at 40 potency lost per hit.

Because hitting 30k direct crit Midares gives me a shattering orgasm.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

Hagakure does change things up a little bit. I find myself in constant decision-making mode when playing it at 70, as while it's very free-flowing and somewhat forgiving because of that - it also means it's very adaptable which forces a lot of on the fly decisions. Even your openers have to be very loose and malleable depending on potential early downtime. I see many people on here boast about it being super easy, but I couldn't disagree more - it has a huge level of finesse that's hard to attain.

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Easy to play to a satisfactory degree but hard to really master and be excellent is the hallmark of a well designed class though.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

If you're kaitening Gekka+Kesho, you're actually losing a lot of damage. Nearly enough to cancel out the positional entirely, in fact, at 40 potency lost per hit.

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Curious. How come?

Gekka + Kesho at 40 Kenki with Kaiten equals 600x2 attacks.

Shiten x2 for 300 Potency x2 at 50 Kenki worth ...just doesn't seem to add up being more damage.

More than happy to hear the basis of this theory as I'm still relatively new to SAM and working out the kinks.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

Curious. How come?

Gekka + Kesho at 40 Kenki with Kaiten equals 600x2 attacks.

Shiten x2 for 300 Potency x2 at 50 Kenki worth ...just doesn't seem to add up being more damage.

More than happy to hear the basis of this theory as I'm still relatively new to SAM and working out the kinks.

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Simply put, each kenki you have has a specific potency to it. Five kenki is 60 potency. Multiply that times 4, and that means to plus on Kaiten, you need to gain at least 240 potency worth of damage. Both Gekko +Kasha, when Kaiten'd, only do 200 extra potency. Shinten, while 300 potency for 25 kenki, is still cashing in each kenki for, at worst, a break even effect. This is also why proccing Seigan via 3rd Eye is typically a DPS gain, because you're trading 180 potency worth of Kenki for a 200 pot attack.

Kaiten is only a gain if you can use it for a GCD that gains more than 240 potency, or to put it another way, it only does more damage when used with Iaijutsu; Higan, Midare, and Tekka.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Simply put, each kenki you have has a specific potency to it. Five kenki is 60 potency. Multiply that times 4, and that means to plus on Kaiten, you need to gain at least 240 potency worth of damage. Both Gekko +Kasha, when Kaiten'd, only do 200 extra potency. Shinten, while 300 potency for 25 kenki, is still cashing in each kenki for, at worst, a break even effect. This is also why proccing Seigan via 3rd Eye is typically a DPS gain, because you're trading 180 potency worth of Kenki for a 200 pot attack.

Kaiten is only a gain if you can use it for a GCD that gains more than 240 potency, or to put it another way, it only does more damage when used with Iaijutsu; Higan, Midare, and Tekka.

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Thanks for the breakdown; I didn't consider Kenki having potency. Interesting theory to it for sure. Perhaps I'll forego using Kaiten so much with my endskill and just oGCD it.

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Originally Posted by Chronons

That being said at a high level of play SAM becomes more difficult than some of these posts seem to suggest. .

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I've noticed at 62+ it speeds up a bit but I havent hit 68 yet, its extremely slow and methodic before this but Im noticing it speeding up a bit, the GCD is still huge.

My SAM is Lv68 now after being Lv67 for a while, and I get bored with it quick. I guess I have gotten used to NIN's speed that SAM seem slow. I DO envy players who main SAM, though.

*EDIT*
I will admit that the positionals from SAM DOES make it push dps.

Having been sam clearing V1S and V2S my weeaboo has been doubled and my hype just when hyper drive after getting the weapon tomb

It's so much fun everything worked out for me

The job is not too hard yet challenging enough do note that this is my first time been a dps in a raid scene

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Having been sam clearing V1S and V2S my weeaboo has been doubled and my hype just when hyper drive after getting the weapon tomb

It's so much fun everything worked out for me

The job is not too hard yet challenging enough do note that this is my first time been a dps in a raid scene

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So after playing with it at 70 you found the job became enjoyable?

Its the big numbers. Easy minds tend to get flow away by big crits. Thats science since 20 years of MMORPG-History.

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

So after playing with it at 70 you found the job became enjoyable?

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I just love the job in general from start to end I have never been at a point where I feel samurai is boring or dreadful

Every single moment of my game play on samurai has been hyperdrive fun mode for me

The flow of the rotation felt so good and I can just switch off my attention off my hot bar and and just pay attention to the fight

It feels like I am dancing on the battle field for me, it's the only job I felt like that

Like most jobs, it doesn't really come into its own until 70. Really, 68. Guren is not that big of a game changer in the way the job plays because it's on such a long cooldown, and its a weave move. Hagakure, however, is a huge game changer in the way you handle your rotations.

The appeal, for me, is that I'm not responsible for anything but damage. Even MNK has Mantra to consider. As SAM, if things go sideways, what are you going to do? I'm just a SAM (Cross-role withstanding). I went into SAM fresh off of the heels of being a WHM and AST, so I was a little tired of being blamed for problems. It was a good change of pace.

The numbers help, but it's not why I'm there. The numbers simply justify why I have no utility.

It has honestly become my north star for jobs. I may stray into other paths, but I always invariably wind up back on SAM.

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Originally Posted by Talec

Its the big numbers. Easy minds tend to get flow away by big crits. Thats science since 20 years of MMORPG-History.

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The numbers on my screen are so small in battle I rarely see how much damage I'm doing, am I missing something there?

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

The numbers on my screen are so small in battle I rarely see how much damage I'm doing, am I missing something there?

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You're probably doing something wrong. I score 35k midare direct crits without any outside buffs or help at all. My normal Midare's are at a 25k base average without buffs/help, and this is using a measly 310 weapon because I'm too lazy to farm Susano.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

You're probably doing something wrong. I score 35k midare direct crits without any outside buffs or help at all. My normal Midare's are at a 25k base average without buffs/help, and this is using a measly 310 weapon because I'm too lazy to farm Susano.

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My issue is the numbers are physically small on the screen, I think im missing a UI setting to make them visible.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I score 35k midare direct crits without any outside buffs or help at all. My normal Midare's are at a 25k base average without buffs/help, and this is using a measly 310 weapon because I'm too lazy to farm Susano.

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What a load of shit, base midare kaiten midare is only 17k

even there no way you can get 35k all by yourself

I am doing the full combo on the dummy and it only did 17k with kaiten midare base is 17k how are you getting these numbers lol I am i320

Like really how are you getting 35k all by yourself? My highest crit is 25k+ and I am fully meld

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

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I am ilvl318 and have seen 35k crits (!!) before without party buffs, specifically on SSS dummy runs. The aren't common though. Non crit averages around 17k as you say with normal crits being around 26k and Im fully melded for SkS.

I tried sam too and even tho it's still in the 50's I'm going to stay monk for the moment. I read guides and watched videos of high level sams and it looks confusing. In my defense I like punching gods in the face being epic as shit :D. Plus It's nice being a monk and having a sam friend in a dungeon and WRECK EVERYTHING :D:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

[...]
I leveled it all the way to 62 because I was told the 2 abilities at 62 change the class dramatically but once I got there I was dissapointed.
[...]

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Are we talking about around 35M of experience points that went down the drain? Painful!

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Originally Posted by MADJAM

Are we talking about around 35M of experience points that went down the drain? Painful!

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I have to decide if I should catch my 61 NIN up grinding pvp or finish msq to 70 on SAM it's 66 right now.

I enjoy playing samurai because its exactly what I wanted MNK to be. And MNK dissapoints me in its current state.

I love that there are constant decisions happening on SAM. It isn't a strict rotation as much as other jobs are. You are constantly monitoring Higanbana, Hagakure CD, Guren CD, Meikyo CD to make sure you have the most uptime possible on those abilities and making sure your Kenki is at the appropriate level for what is coming up. The rotation flows really well and obviously pulling big DPS #'s help a lot

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

What a load of shit, base midare kaiten midare is only 17k

even there no way you can get 35k all by yourself

I am doing the full combo on the dummy and it only did 17k with kaiten midare base is 17k how are you getting these numbers lol I am i320

Like really how are you getting 35k all by yourself? My highest crit is 25k+ and I am fully meld

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Lol BS. I hit 36k Midares all the time. My avg is actually around 27-28 but a direct crit can surely be over 35k.

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Originally Posted by Esoterikk

I have to decide if I should catch my 61 NIN up grinding pvp or finish msq to 70 on SAM it's 66 right now.

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The thing about sam is that until you get all of your abilities you really cant see the whole playstyle. It's a ton of fun at 70. More than most other DPS I've played. Working on my Nin so haven't played it end game to judge the difference but I don't see it taking me away from sam.

Looking into SAM as well (finally) and surely can agree with most posts here.

Coming from a mainly caster (and crafter :) ) player It feels reasonably fast-paced to play with it's combo's, a pace which I liked for some reason. Being up close to the action is a nice change, but again that's coming from a mainly ranged player which is dabbling into melee at this point. :)

At some point I always wind up playing all roles. I too have found SAM to be less than I hoped, at least early on. Oh well, back to the 100 other types of DPS...