So this is PvP now?

Someone explained that there are some people who are actually grinding, and or trying to get achievements. I agreed and added onto it only for the person who explained to say he was just kidding and he wants the whole alliance to just kill the other teams and forget about the ice. The first person then proceeded to say they didn't even know there are achievements for PvP. I told them about the mounts, glam, and stuff, but...well we lost again. All in all I enjoy PvP still, still love it "although I had to fall back in love with it lol", I just don't like the passer-bys that come to stick around...

Ah just so you know, you can edit your post to bypass the character limit :)

Checking out Red Mage in pvp, it's pretty fun I'm enjoying it. :)

Ah I did not know that "obviously" thank you! :) the whole time I was thinking, man this is a pain.

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Originally Posted by Keelyah

Lol i think glamour being end game just goes with out saying... we all like to look a specific way. But in regard to pvp ... I think most of us do not view this as balance... it feels like someone went into the doctors office for a common cold and came out with an arm amputated. Its a huge shift... the actual " problem", if there ever really was one, wasn't addressed lol. Maybe it was " we want those who play PvE to feel welcomed in the PvP arena..." but that distracts from what pvp has always been about which is an uncontrolled, competitive and unique realm... and this version of PvP is is soulless.
That was a great idea however it would be even more amazing to give us back the majority of our skills and give us the chance to configure our own consolidated button/ buttons OURSELVESfor both pvp and pve

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Oh, I agree so much with that. I even registered at the forum just to say that. :(
Couldn't have said that better.

PLD turned to garbage in PvP. We lost all sorts of good skills and got cookie cutter replacements. We can't even shield lob ffs. All other tanks have their insta-ranged weaponskills and PLD has to stop moving to cast Holy Spirit. What a joke.

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

Checking out Red Mage in pvp, it's pretty fun I'm enjoying it. :)

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It seems RDM and SAM were both well designed for the current system. But some of the other classes suffer.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

PLD turned to garbage in PvP. We lost all sorts of good skills and got cookie cutter replacements. We can't even shield lob ffs. All other tanks have their insta-ranged weaponskills and PLD has to stop moving to cast Holy Spirit. What a joke.

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What you failed to mention is that Holy Spirit with Quiescat up is an insane spammable 25y snipe with silence that can harass healers and casters alike :P

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Originally Posted by Tsuole

I'm an avid PVPer and I like the button consolidation, though I think the actual problem here is with the skill / trait selection. If we had perhaps more choices and more IMPORTANT choices of skills that could actually influence a 'build' of sorts that made our characters and the way we played fun and unique it would be better. Having less skills is better, but having game defining decisions to make is what makes PVP fun. We don't have that in our rotations - such is the nature of the game created. But we could have these choices in our selected traits and skills.

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As the most casual player you'll ever find, I adore it actually. But yes some of the skills I wish I could change. At the same time, I like how I can better understand my opponent. DRK vs DRK is a game of who can time their stuns the best.

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Originally Posted by AriaFairchild

What you failed to mention is that Holy Spirit with Quiescat up is an insane spammable 25y snipe with silence that can harass healers and casters alike :P

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For one cast then your MP is under the % threshold to benefit from it anymore.

We have no chase capabilities. It's pretty frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

For one cast then your MP is under the % threshold to benefit from it anymore.

We have no chase capabilities. It's pretty frustrating.

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??? Did you just read the PvE tooltip and make an assumption? That isn't even how it works. As long as PvP's Requiescat buff is up (obtainable from any MP percentage), your casts are enhanced.

While I appreciate the reduction in button bloat, it's way to watered down. My wife and I played for fun and really enjoyed it, but now it's just for the roulette tomes and that's it. We should have at least 1 full hot bar of abilities, I mean, cmon! So many classes lack key features which make them fun to play in the first place. I used to love playing PLD in PvP, but it's just no fun now. They need to seriously consider giving us at least a full hot bar of abilities to use. It gets old way to fast, it's just dumbed down to an aggravating and uninteresting level.

I think I mentioned it before, but as someone who made highlight videos of PvP gameplay, I started trying to make a new one recently, and while looking at the footage - of myself in action, mind you - even I thought "wow, this really doesn't look interesting at all now. . ."

It's a pipe dream, but I wonder if it'd be at all possible to have the old system back, even as a separate type of PvP mode? "Expert PvP" or "Classic PvP" or something like that. The problem was less in the balancing of skills and button bloat, but that there was no effort on SE's part to ever explain how anything worked beyond basic match rules. So anyone new had no idea what to do and could barely enjoy it.

But I guess it's easier to change the game than for a player to improve themselves :/

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I think I mentioned it before, but as someone who made highlight videos of PvP gameplay, I started trying to make a new one recently, and while looking at the footage - of myself in action, mind you - even I thought "wow, this really doesn't look interesting at all now. . ."

It's a pipe dream, but I wonder if it'd be at all possible to have the old system back, even as a separate type of PvP mode? "Expert PvP" or "Classic PvP" or something like that. The problem was less in the balancing of skills and button bloat, but that there was no effort on SE's part to ever explain how anything worked beyond basic match rules. So anyone new had no idea what to do and could barely enjoy it.

But I guess it's easier to change the game than for a player to improve themselves :/

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No more oh my, I did that awesome play?

At the end of the day, the old PVP was extremely unbalanced to the point that it just wasn't always fun.

I am thoroughly enjoying the new PVP -- and although I'm a fan of the lesser amount of buttons, this is still very much a 'beta', if you will. The only way for them to fix pvp was to truly delete it and start afresh. I have no doubt that more abilities will be added, more buttons, tons of changes -- we haven't even entered the season yet.

It will just take time to make it 'perfect' -- but imo it's on the right track.

The changes to overall damage and HP values are no big thing. The oversimplification and or complete changing of some jobs/roles is highly questionable (no pets for pet jobs, not at all times at least, and WHM is the only healer with an aoe heal and barely at that). Sprint is. . . I won't bring up Sprint right now. It definitely has room to grow. . . I only hope it actually does.

And as for the awesome plays, I still do them, but as far as a MCH goes, it's always the same order of shots, every time. Far less interesting than a sudden burst comeback like this

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

At the end of the day, the old PVP was extremely unbalanced to the point that it just wasn't always fun.

I am thoroughly enjoying the new PVP -- and although I'm a fan of the lesser amount of buttons, this is still very much a 'beta', if you will. The only way for them to fix pvp was to truly delete it and start afresh. I have no doubt that more abilities will be added, more buttons, tons of changes -- we haven't even entered the season yet.

It will just take time to make it 'perfect' -- but imo it's on the right track.

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I see people say old PvP was unbalanced, but what exactly was so extremely unbalanced about it before and what is so balanced about it now?

I'd say the old PvP was pretty well balanced, all the classes were viable, with maybe one of each role being harder to put to good use than the others, but they weren't insta-losses or anything and were good in the right hands (which is also exactly what we have in the new PvP now, one class in each role that's kind of the odd one out that can't perform as well but still doable, except melee idk about melee now). Don't think anything was "extremely" imbalanced in the old PvP, except that WHM were GODS in premade 4v4 haha. People were just intimidated by the buttons and the burst style.

No warrior in aether cup? In chaos only 1 player was using pld iirc, for using i mean on plat/dia matches.. every single tank were warrior

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

Snip.

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The aether cup consisted of 5 teams. There will always be a meta and the best jobs, that is the case for every game. Even with that fact, the team of DRK(there was a drk in the tournament)/AST/MNK/MCH were at the grand finals and the games between that team and the meta were extremely close. There would be even more deviations if there weren't literally 5 teams. Also, different data centers have different metas. For instance, Chaos' meta tank is WAR and have competitive BRDs, where as JP meta has BLM/SMN topping the charts. On the datacenter in which you and I are both part of, despite the meta, EVERY job has found its way into Top 100.

The balance before was actually good and many facets of the game had counters, even the meta comp had counters. If SE actually cared about PvP back then. And didn't attempt to balance once or twice a year, it'd have been in a better place. All in all, PvP was more balanced back then, than people tend to claim.

Also a Scholar from another datacenter showed up and grabbed First Place in our datacenter in a really short time.

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Originally Posted by Kaisinel

The balance before was actually good and many facets of the game had counters, even the meta comp had counters. If SE actually cared about PvP back then. And didn't attempt to balance once or twice a year, it'd have been in a better place. All in all, PvP was more balanced back then, than people tend to claim.

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This is the truth if I've ever heard it.

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

It's why people need to keep making feedback threads now, so Square can see the issues.

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Shatter was released in patch 3.3,you can say that probably 99,5%-99,9% of the frontline matches, since that point over a year ago, were shatter frontline modes. They did 1 change to shatter in that whole time,actually right with the next patch/fix I believe...They reduced the damage crystals take from magical range classes by 50% (physical range classes are still 100% though, seems legit). You really think there was no more feedback ? I know currently only 72man frontline are running at the moment, but have you ever played 24 mode? The HP of the ice crystals are the same (like in 72), you will need like 5-10minutes to destroy one big. PvP mode should be about PvP, but ice points give more points when they are up than killing players. They never changed the priority from PvE to PvP in a PvP mode. Why? If they care more about PvP they have to make the adjustments more frequently and faster to get that solid basis/foundation you are dreaming off and I am not seeing that yet.

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

On top of this, PVP is actually popping now. Regularly.

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Yes, because PvP gives experience and botters and pseudo-afk players fill half of the alliances. Have you ever played during 2am-6am on your datacenter? On mine you will sometimes see 2 premade groups of bots in just 1 grand company alliance. They need to remove experience again from PvP because they cant handle the bots efficiently or make the exp gain so small that it wouldn't matter for them.
When you check frontlines rankings and there are some players with several hundred matches played in the last week (like 500+), you should get a bit suspicious of how they achieve that. The week has 10080 minutes, if you consider one frontline match 15min you get 7500 minutes pure frontlines. Then there would be the waiting time for a pop lets say he is really lucky and get a pop every 3min max. So thats another 1500 minutes. Then you have to wait 1 min before the match even starts, so another 500minutes. Now we get close to 9500 minutes. Ah ofc you need to sleep some time so there you have the remaining 580minutes ~ 10hrs sleep for a week ( thats less than 1,5hrs per day). But hey, that was just the math for 500 matches, there are people with 600+ matches.

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

Snip.

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Stop exaggerating the supposed severe disadvantage jobs had back then. I feel like you don't even know the reason why the meta comp was as powerful as it was, what made mch more desirable than smn, or what drk even had to bring to the table. Again, despite the lack of effort to balance PvP on SE's part, PvP was still fairly balanced. It was not as unbalanced as you seem to think it was. If we're talking from high level play, every job had strong points and abilities to bring to the table that supported actual teamwork and not the lul that is solo queue. There will ALWAYS be a best job for a particular role, always. But like I mentioned to you before, EVERY job has made it into top 100.

You know how they locked Cleric from healers and Rez from SMN? I'd imagine after 10months of 4.0 that SE would have finally decided to bar Vercure/raise from RDM. Yes I agree PvP needed to be separated from PvE, but currently it's a shell of its former self and has never been more shallow.

My only argument to you has always been about people blowing the imbalances in 3.X out of proportions. I don't entirely disagree with it's current direction, stop assuming.

PvP was popping before 4.0, regularly. I'm not really sure why you brought that up? How's getting past platinum in solo queue working out? Or does it not pop? :confused:

I'm finding crafting and gathering to be more fun than 4.0 pvp. This mode is trash.

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

On top of this, PVP is actually popping now. Regularly.

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When they finally lifted GC restrictions in 3.5 - after 2 years of us asking and begging for it - queues picked up big time. . . It's like giving people something they wanted for 2 years that would overall improve matchmaking would improve queues. Who'd have thought it?

I still enjoy 4.0 pvp but not as much as HW pvp. I think a lot of the changes made so far have been fantastic, like making pvp a viable method to level up (even if it comes with it's own slew of problems...), removing gear (even though it was never a big deal in the first place) and removing GC rank advantages (this bugged me more than anything else but also wasn't hugely impactful, but it rubbed me the wrong way how other players would literally have BETTER VERSIONS of abilities just because they've been in their GC longer or played longer.)

But they took away so much of the depth that now things seems much more formulaic than before. There's only so much you can do as a player to differentiate yourself from others, only so much you can do to outplay people. Back when I was playing DRK in season 3 and 4, there were general strategies I'd use that I found most effective against most players, but there were also certain strategies I employed against certain that I got to know over time. If they got used to the same cookie cutter strategies every match, I'd switch things up. When they saw the Carnal Chills coming, I'd slow them down in other ways. I'd save dark arts dark passenger when I saw their favorite buffs go up (because they wouldn't use everything at once, they'd only use 1 or 2 things to bait stuff out and then wait until a better opportunity to catch people by surprise), I'd bind them with Unleash to time out their Life Surge or Raging Strikes.... But that's not an option anymore. CC is short and limited, everyone's pool of abilities is really smalling, you don't even have to guess what someone else is going to do because they HAVE nothing else to do. They're going to do the same god damn thing every match and you're going to counter it the same exact way every single match until eventually someone on your team or the enemy team slips and a kill happens. The kill didn't happen because you played well, it happened because someone else played sloppy, and that's not as fun.

8 vs 8 is a pewpew land.
Frontline is a pewpew land.
I don't know about 4 vs 4 cuz it's not popping at all.
Melee are dying, no one bring sword to a pewpew fight.

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Originally Posted by Hecathedrk

8 vs 8 is a pewpew land.
Frontline is a pewpew land.
I don't know about 4 vs 4 cuz it's not popping at all.
Melee are dying, no one bring sword to a pewpew fight.

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Thats because teams lack teamwork, also party composition do matter when party fully utilize their roles. Thanks for giving exp on pvp nice move. Q.Q

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Originally Posted by Mirch

Thats because teams lack teamwork, also party composition do matter when party fully utilize their roles. Thanks for giving exp on pvp nice move. Q.Q

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*70k damage BLM*

'im just here for the exp'

... maybe im late with this one but literally pvp with 1v1 's has resorted to heal, safe guard and Potion popping?!?! I feel like with the variety of skills we had before although some weaknesses were inevitable there was always a way to actively beat an opponent... now its who can pop healing and safe guards the best. *grabs kleenex box*
T__T really hoping that this is just some beta phase that they are planning on addressing again at some point. PvE gets all the fun these days lol