Vercure is not part of your rotation.

I'd far prefer a rdm who uses vercure slightly too much than one who uses it too little. By an order of magnitude.

Vercure and verise for me is definitely depend on the situation.

- everyone got hit by aoe and rdm vercure himself? Fine by me
- healer die and rdm vercure everyone else while verise healer? Nice play rdm
- everyone is fine but everytime someone got hit rdm cast vercure? No
- rdm use vercure because he's far from group? Np, save time for healer to run back to him

The thing is, you never know if rdm will keep vercuring himself, he could just cure himself because at that time he was panic or something else. Then one time he stop vercuring himself because the healer doing good job at healing while the healer though the rdm gonna heal himself anyway, in hectic fight like final boss trial that can cause problem and probably a wasted heal there

I only used Vercure as a 70 RDM in 4 situations:
- When healers were dead, and I needed to heal tanks and raise one of the healers. (Emergency)
- When in 4-man content and the healer simply doesn't heal the DPSes (Me and the other) even when they're at 10-15% health, and there's AoEs incoming. Happened to me a few times already, the first time we wiped. (I would call that an emergency as well)
- When doing solo content.
- When Duoing EX primals with my sister. (Pretty much the same reason as soloing for that).

So, unless you're the type of healer that keeps healing the almost full health tank instead of healing the low health DPSes, Vercure is not part of my rotation.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I have to say I'm surprised at the responses thus far.

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I'm new to these shores and find threads like this a little unsettling.

I assume most responses are picking up the humorous tone of the OP and are responding in kind?

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Originally Posted by Pence

I had something similar to this today.....a RDM kept using Erase on the bomb at....ahhhhh Gods, forgot the dungeon.....the museum one in Azys....one of the hard modes in 3.0.

I just rescued him while casting LB. Someone wasn't happy. And I got a chuckle.

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Erase is ogcd and doesn't lower their dps at all. /facepalm at you, sir.

As for vercure, don't forget the "we're in a phase change, there's no target, and I'd like to set up my doublecast" usage.

The moral of this thread:
Trying to help people get better is great.
Expecting pug players to play optimally and getting mad when they don't is inane.

My experience is that even after failing every single aoe and having a heavy dot while shinryu does his tank buster, they rather pull more DPS even tho they have 5% health remaining.

Then they die and are like "rez?" Which I reply "you're a waste of mana"

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

My experience is that even after failing every single aoe and having a heavy dot while shinryu does his tank buster, they rather pull more DPS even tho they have 5% health remaining.

Then they die and are like "rez?" Which I reply "you're a waste of mana"

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<3 just win...

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Originally Posted by DJMau

If it helps the group, what's the problem? Using a Vercure as opposed to verWhichever isn't going to just cause catastrophic failure, just make the healer's life a little easier.

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It doesn't tho.
Usually....
What usually happens is that the RDM just blatanly has zero trust in the healer and starts interrupting his or her dps rotation to throw out heals just because someone is at 75-50% hp, even if there is no incoming damage.
Do you know what helps even more than useless heals that only ends up being double heals and a waste of mana for both of us?
You continuing dpsing so that whatever dies faster.
I don't think that I have ever come across a RDM that actually genuinly helped with Vercure yet, often I see them cast Vercure and the healer casting a heal AT THE SAME TIME on the same target.
It actually gets rather irritating as a healer too. Have some faith in your healers unless proven otherwise...

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Originally Posted by gumas

Snip

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I agree with this, those cases are fine. But like 90% of the cases that I see are RDM's who have no faith whatsoever in their healer for no real reason and freaks out the moment someone goes bellow 75% HP.
It almost comes across as a slap in the face to the healer too, as a massive '' I don't trust you to do your job '' slap.
Vercuring to set up dualcast is fine too, but there are just so many of them running around acting like half healers half dps rather than dps with panic heals.

if any dps has zero trust in their healer, then I doubt the problem was the DPS. We're a pretty trusting group to start with.

As a healer, I get annoyed when I see RDM do this. Simply because as a healer main for 4 years, I've already started my cast on them, or whoever they're trying to heal. If they use their skill to make it instant, it results in me over healing. If not instant, it's them who over heals.

Vercure has saved me many times from unavoidable aoe damage because the healer was slacking.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Then they die and are like "rez?" Which I reply "you're a waste of mana"

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Good thing your main class is "Summoner" then -- leave it for the healer to deal with ... or are you an Arcanist Physick? [Inquiring minds ...]

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Vercure has saved me many times from unavoidable aoe damage because the healer was slacking.

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This. It also lets tank survives a hit while the healer is slacking or is dead. It nicely forms a combo with tank heal + raise a healer. But all too often I'd have to use it to top myself off after being targeted for a mechanic, the healer not healing me back up, and then the next raid-wide AoE was going to kill me.

The problem was that Vercure was actually becoming part of my rotation in the EX primals because of all the bad play in there. So not only are we losing DPS from people dying, we're losing DPS from me having to fix all of the problems and raising healers etc.

So I just went back to BLM so I can just not be bothered with it.

I'm a red mage and sometimes I like to take the stress off the healer and heal myself in sticky situations and I also like to help the healer revive ppl and I get thanked in the end

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

The main point is that it doesn't help at all unless you are patching up an actual emergency.

I have to say I'm surprised at the responses thus far. I rather thought it was going to be more "oh yeah, those silly RDMs, why do they keep trying to heal when they should be DPSing," but I guess people really like their Vercure.

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Me too. It should be self-evident that Vercure is meant for questing and for emergency use in an instance only. Silly red mages.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Considering that there are already RDMs out there that are making playstyle choices of melee only RDM or caster only RDM, I'm not really surprised that people are gimping themselves because they want to try to be unique by playing a support RDM. I don't know where the enjoyment comes from of intentionally gimping yourself because you want to be a unique snowflake, it's truly mind-boggling.

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Really? Why would anyone want to do that? It's just stoopid.

How would one even make a melee only RDM... Just started leveling mine and there's only like 3 melee attacks right? You cast your spells until you have enough of each mana, jump in with your heavy hitting enhanced melee, jump out and repeat.

Vercure IS part of the RDM rotation during downtime to ready chainspell/Dualcast

I usually just use Vercure/Verraise if :
1. One or both Healers are dead.
2. Both are low on MP and my Mana Shift is down.
3. Most of the people in the party didn't know mechanics and eats all AoEs, to the point that number one and/or two become a really likely possibility.

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Originally Posted by Iveriad

I usually just use Vercure/Verraise if :
1. One or both Healers are dead.
2. Both are low on MP and my Mana Shift is down.
3. Most of the people in the party didn't know mechanics and eats all AoEs, to the point that number one and/or two become a really likely possibility.

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I often notice healers leaving people dead for long periods of time. Even during fights where people easily hit enrage. Maybe we wouldn't have hit enrage if you didn't leave that dps dead for 2 minutes of the fight.

If I see someone dead for like 20+ secs, I'll stop what I'm doing to raise them even if both healers are alive.

I cant belive people are angry about the use of raid. Hey red mage has always been a do it all kinda job as a gap filler deal

Did someone already reply....

"You don't pay my sub." To OP yet? :^)

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Good thing your main class is "Summoner" then -- leave it for the healer to deal with ... or are you an Arcanist Physick? [Inquiring minds ...]

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You're not seriously implying this game is so hard a person can only master one job, are you?

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

If I see someone dead for like 20+ secs, I'll stop what I'm doing to raise them even if both healers are alive.

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If someone is dead for more than 20secs then my swift cast is down and I don't have the time to cast raise regularly. I appreciate you picking that up with your vastly more frequent swiftcasting ability.

A lot of ppl missing the main point of this thread lol. I think OP was trying to talk about the rdm who are trying too hard to change their red icon into a green one.

Vercure is like holding a door open for somebody. It's a nice gesture with good intentions, but if you're holding it open for someone half a parking a lot away, it's just awkward and unnecessary. If you're holding it open for someone behind you with their hands full, you're doing it right.

I haven't gotten Vercure yet, but my plan was to only use it on myself (to make the Healer's job easier when I'm bad), and on the Healer (cause from my healing experience a lot of times I tunnel vision on the other party members health and forget about my own health, so I figured it'd help other healers).

would I be doing it wrong?

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

I haven't gotten Vercure yet, but my plan was to only use it on myself (to make the Healer's job easier when I'm bad), and on the Healer (cause from my healing experience a lot of times I tunnel vision on the other party members health and forget about my own health, so I figured it'd help other healers).

would I be doing it wrong?

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If you care about efficiency, then yes. Vercure is an emergency tool to be used when the healer(s) cannot keep up for whatever reason (e.g. because they're dead). Using it just to help the healer when the healer doesn't absolutely need that help is a waste of everybody's time. If you took some unnecessary damage, try to dodge better next time, but don't compound the issue by wasting dps.

Wanting to help your party is of course the right instinct, but outside of real emergencies the most effective help you can offer is to make stuff die faster.

Late to the party but while I condone using Vercure in general

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Vercure is NOT part of your rotation in the same way that Second Wind or Bloodbath aren't part of a Melee DPS rotation.

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Comparing a GCD (Vercure) against Second Wind and Bloodbath, both oGCDs, is not a fair comparison. Yes I'm guilty of using Second Wind and Bloodbath because I weave those in between GCDs as a DRG when I was progressing A12S on min ilvl, usually on the Prey mechanic

I dared to let the tank fall below 80% while casting malefic one day, and the RDM entered full on panic mode and started spamming vercures on everyone. Not to mention the tank was a paladin, and he was spamming clemency on himself at the same time for whatever reason.

Told them both to calm tf down.

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Originally Posted by Averax

I dared to let the tank fall below 80% while casting malefic one day, and the RDM entered full on panic mode and started spamming vercures on everyone. Not to mention the tank was a paladin, and he was spamming clemency on himself at the same time for whatever reason.

Told them both to calm tf down.

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Paladins have been playing the game wrong this way since they got clemency (and occasionally some even before that!).

considering ive been in a fight at critical lvls of health (roughly below 20%) , and the healer completely ignores me for quite along time , i Vercure myself and then suddenly the healer starts flipping out on me XD at this point just forget about RDM that Vercure themselves if theyre hurt , theres plenty of cases where a healer ignores a dps. this isnt new.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

It actually gets rather irritating as a healer too. Have some faith in your healers unless proven otherwise...

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You're new to these forums aren't you?

OT: If healers weren't so concerned with doing my job and making sure people aren't at risk of dying, I'd be using my Vercure a lot less.

Lets not forget that this is FFXIV where the average player has below average skill. I don't run statics and pug most stuff so I run across a lot of bad healers (hi scholars), especially in 8-mans. RDM heals, mine or anothers, as well as rezes have carried teams hard at times. The low skill level goes for DPS and Tanks. Often it feels like DPS are attracted to red rather then fear it.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

OT: If healers weren't so concerned with doing my job and making sure people aren't at risk of dying, I'd be using my Vercure a lot less.

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That's rich coming from you, Thunda. You're obsessively in favour of classes fitting neatly in their boxes- unless apparently it's your prerogative.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

That's rich coming from you, Thunda. You're obsessively in favour of classes fitting neatly in their boxes- unless apparently it's your prerogative.

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Lies! I'm aggressively in favor of tanks using their dps stance so long as they won't lose aggro, after all.

My VerRaise and Vercure spam on the DRK as the healer ressed saved us a wipe on the final boss of ala migho today, granted the healer was new but Im proud of it, and I have no shame admitting I use those spells when needed.

#VerPride

Vercure is part of my rotation, as opener before a boss re-appears after phase change (Susano EX post-sword/Lakshmi EX post-dance). So u can start Verthunder/Veraero as soon as the boss becomes targetable, without spending a Swiftcast.