Why Shirk?

Shirk is absolutely amazing for tank swaps, you don't have to interrupt your rotation to squeeze in a emnity combo to keep yourself over the other tank anymore. and you get a higher lead on the boss overall each time it happens

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Shirk is how you high five the other tank for the tag out. They raise their hand up with provoke and you tag it with shirk. Don't leave them hanging.

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This needs to become official text in Shirk's tooltip!

Shirk should always be brough for 8man duties, it trivalizes aggro management and increase tank dps, as well as there not being anything thats worth giving it up for after you filled your 5 role slots. so yeah use it for 8man duties, not needed for dungeons though.

The thing is people should not be mad if someone DOESNT bring Shirk!! I have dipped into the Savage content and V1s doesn't even need a tank swap. matter of fact a lot of the content in this 4.x doesn't need a tank swaps per say like they did in heavenwards, but its still early in stormblood so who knows. I do use Shirk and I agree it is a great ability. my thing is that people shouldn't tell someone they have to bring it and people shouldn't clown someone for using it thinking they are bad tank from what I read on the forums. Its a good skill BY NO means is it required but a great skill and if you run with a static or looking for one most likely you will be using it, if not and just play in groups at you own pace and still get things done its not needed but again great skill.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

The thing is people should not be mad if someone DOESNT bring Shirk!! I have dipped into the Savage content and V1s doesn't even need a tank swap. matter of fact a lot of the content in this 4.x doesn't need a tank swaps per say like they did in heavenwards, but its still early in stormblood so who knows. I do use Shirk and I agree it is a great ability. my thing is that people shouldn't tell someone they have to bring it and people shouldn't clown someone for using it thinking they are bad tank from what I read on the forums. Its a good skill BY NO means is it required but a great skill and if you run with a static or looking for one most likely you will be using it, if not and just play in groups at you own pace and still get things done its not needed but again great skill.

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I loose out on DPS when the other tank is not using Shirk. I have to use my emnity combo after each swap, because the other tank rather prefers Awareness, which to me falls in the same catagory as Anticipation. Something you cannot rely on, is not worth taking over something you can rely on. This means there's only 5 useful role skills you can have.
Provoke, Rampart, Convalescence, Reprisal and Shirk.

For 4 man content you can swap out whatever you like, for raids you bring the best tools for the job, your other tank (and 6 other people) expect you too.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

The thing is people should not be mad if someone DOESNT bring Shirk!! I have dipped into the Savage content and V1s doesn't even need a tank swap. matter of fact a lot of the content in this 4.x doesn't need a tank swaps per say like they did in heavenwards, but its still early in stormblood so who knows. I do use Shirk and I agree it is a great ability. my thing is that people shouldn't tell someone they have to bring it and people shouldn't clown someone for using it thinking they are bad tank from what I read on the forums. Its a good skill BY NO means is it required but a great skill and if you run with a static or looking for one most likely you will be using it, if not and just play in groups at you own pace and still get things done its not needed but again great skill.

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1. It's not just for tankswaps
2. It actively nerfs the other tank not bringing it
3. Nothing else better to take

Shirk has so many uses, this has probably been said before but this is how I use it:

1.) makes tank swaps really easy (not that it was ever hard)
2.) in the example of Lakshmi ex when im OT I can shirk the MT then voke to guarantee I have 2nd most hate by a large margin.
3.) when im OT and no tank swaps necessary, you can voke then shirk the MT so the MT never has to enter tank stance short of heavy tankbusters (as a DRK when im MT I wish more OTs did this as everything outside damage combos is a big dps nerf)

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

The thing is people should not be mad if someone DOESNT bring Shirk!! I have dipped into the Savage content and V1s doesn't even need a tank swap. matter of fact a lot of the content in this 4.x doesn't need a tank swaps per say like they did in heavenwards, but its still early in stormblood so who knows. I do use Shirk and I agree it is a great ability. my thing is that people shouldn't tell someone they have to bring it and people shouldn't clown someone for using it thinking they are bad tank from what I read on the forums. Its a good skill BY NO means is it required but a great skill and if you run with a static or looking for one most likely you will be using it, if not and just play in groups at you own pace and still get things done its not needed but again great skill.

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It's like any other play optimization. I get upset if a healer doesn't have Esuna on fights that use it, I'll get upset if someone doesn't have Shirk in 8-man.

I have trouble finding a space on my hotbar for Shirk. It'd be nice but I just can see giving up:

Convalescence (OP when used with Clemency and/or Requiescat self-sustain)
Awareness (You can't block a criitcal hit. On PLD this makes Bulwark and Passage of Arms much stronger.)
Reprisal, Rampart, and Provoke are forever slots.

I'd give up Awareness and take Shirk if you aren't a Paladin. Though I've never had a problem Tank swapping.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

I have trouble finding a space on my hotbar for Shirk. It'd be nice but I just can see giving up:

Convalescence (OP when used with Clemency and/or Requiescat self-sustain)
Awareness (You can't block a criitcal hit. On PLD this makes Bulwark and Passage of Arms much stronger.)
Reprisal, Rampart, and Provoke are forever slots.

I'd give up Awareness and take Shirk if you aren't a Paladin. Though I've never had a problem Tank swapping.

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In 8 mans you should be giving up awareness for shirk (except in o3s, where the tank buster is a guaranteed crit. I personally dropped convo for awareness). Shirk is a sizeable dps increase for both tanks and shouldn't be ignored, even for pld, especially for pld since you never ever wanna use rage of halone if you can help it.

Technically? With Shirk, you don't even have to stay in Tank Stance. If Healers are on point, Both Tanks can be in DPS Stance and not have to worry about aggro, only needing to swap to Tank Stance for TBs. I know because I've done Susan EX and with my Co-Tank, shirking between us let me stay in Deliverance for almost the whole fight. He probably could've taken off Grit and be fine but one can never be too careful around unsuspecting Healers.

tl;dr Shirk could potentially be an overall DPS Increase, and

http://allplatformgaming.com/wp-cont...na-5-GIF-4.gif

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Shirk is how you high five the other tank for the tag out. They raise their hand up with provoke and you tag it with shirk. Don't leave them hanging.

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The annoying thing about shirk is that it further trivializes tanking. It basically removes your enmity combo so now you just spam the same 3 buttons while tanking.

So true. Especially since the dps and healers don't generate enmity and can run a risk of ripping aggro and having their faces eaten off in a heartbeat. Oh, wait...

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

The annoying thing about shirk is that it further trivializes tanking. It basically removes your enmity combo so now you just spam the same 3 buttons while tanking.

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That's why I love it. It is great not having to use the enmity combo, at least for Dark Knight since it neither generates MP, Blackblood, and is a DPS loss.

Less Power Slash combos is a great thing for us.

Shirk's awesome. You never ever have to worry any party member creeping up on you for aggro, ever. From a DRK perspective, it used to be that MTing meant that you would inevitably use your aggro combo at some point to hold the lead. Lost MP and DPS, who would want that? Now that shirk's a thing, everyone in the party is too far to even be a liability. As DRK, there's no reason to skip out on shirk. You must take rampart, voke, reprisal for 8-man content. That leaves you with two slots, and the only real candidates would be awarness, conva, and shirk. Conva helps with living dead, but what about awareness? Eh, shirk's much more practical and beneficial.

At the end of the day, it's a choice on how you tank. Personally I would rather keep my healers happy. If someone has numbers in Savage (not extreme primals) that show a huge increase in overall dps Between mt and ot I'd love to see. hardcores will be angry I'm sure. Whatever. I play how I want. If the other tank can justify why I need it then I'll use it. Otherwise it stays on my he shelf while I soak damage

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

At the end of the day, it's a choice on how you tank. Personally I would rather keep my healers happy.

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In my experience, healers(like everyone else) are happier the faster a fight is over. :P

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

The annoying thing about shirk is that it further trivializes tanking. It basically removes your enmity combo so now you just spam the same 3 buttons while tanking.

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You are wrong, it adds extra dynamics to enmity management, giving tanks a skill that both gives and takes away enmity. Lakshmi had my favourite interaction with shirk (especially pre enmity buff), where you needed to maintain second on the hate list. This is the most I have felt like a relevant offtank in a long time, needing to stay below the MT, but also outenmity that SAM that is going ham, use of shirk to lose enmity off myself was great.

actually i dont know what to think about shirk, i mean is a awesome skill for tank swaps the benefic is huge (even if my co-tank refuse to use it -.-) but on the other hand i find this skill crash against us in they way how make a entire combo and a stance almost more useless.

i love DRK with all my heart and i love tanking, but this desing choices are pretty damm weird sometimes, if make our skills become useless then is a bad desing.

dont get me wrong i love shirk but this tanks dinamics are pretty poor.

I personally can't go without Awareness, it might be dumb but I get really salty when the boss crits, and will use awareness in response.

However, I'll always take Shirk into an 8-man, because it's a really good skill. Were tankswaps going well before 4.0? Yes, they were. But there were always those times, like when a tank use provoke too early, and ends up an entire Berserk - Butcher's Block behind you in enmity.

Really, I just exchange Shirk for Low Blow.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

The annoying thing about shirk is that it further trivializes tanking. It basically removes your enmity combo so now you just spam the same 3 buttons while tanking.

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Truthfully, that's not the case. We've been worrying about using emnity combo in a long time, and seasoned tanks know that using as many DPS combos as possible while staying alive, is key to excellence after getting used to the mechanics. Being able to remove our emnity combo with Shirk allows us to increase our DPS output just because we don't need to worry about generating emnity entirely.

This is what I do in Susano EX after clearing, and I have been using more Sword Oath to increase my DPS output with each clear. Same goes to every tank swapping mechanic. (Oh, and no, we're not pressing 3 buttons as a tank. We're using waay more than 3 buttons!)

In Lakshmi EX, it has a special rule for tanks being the 1st and 2nd on the Emnity list, so early on, Shirk is a nice utility used the same way as Shadewalker by simply transferring the emnity you got to the MT to get way up, and then Provoke to be on around the same level. No one can catch up to that amount of emnity :)

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

In Lakshmi EX, it has a special rule for tanks being the 1st and 2nd on the Emnity list, so early on, Shirk is a nice utility used the same way as Shadewalker by simply transferring the emnity you got to the MT to get way up, and then Provoke to be on around the same level. No one can catch up to that amount of emnity :)

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yes this! I feel like in every pug I was the only one that did this. and there are so many posts here about Shirk and tank swaps. It's not JUST ABOUT TANK SWAPS. if you use both shirk and voke correctly neither tank has to sit in tank stance except for busters. That's ALOT more dps your putting out which for prog will help preventing that enrage and eventually to skip some mechanics. Please people take shirk for 8-man.

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Originally Posted by Lyrai_Celestine

Truthfully, that's not the case. We've been worrying about using emnity combo in a long time, and seasoned tanks know that using as many DPS combos as possible while staying alive, is key to excellence after getting used to the mechanics. Being able to remove our emnity combo with Shirk allows us to increase our DPS output just because we don't need to worry about generating emnity entirely.

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I know exactly what it does, my point is it turns tanking even more into a 3 button game. Just keep on spamming that same 3 button dps combo over and over and over and over and over again cause god forbid anything in sb have the tiniest bit of complexity to it or some brain dead amputee might not be able to do an ex primal. Not that tanking was ever complicated but at least you had to be conscious of enmity before.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

I know exactly what it does, my point is it turns tanking even more into a 3 button game. Just keep on spamming that same 3 button dps combo over and over and over and over and over again cause god forbid anything in sb have the tiniest bit of complexity to it or some brain dead amputee might not be able to do an ex primal. Not that tanking was ever complicated but at least you had to be conscious of enmity before.

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Yeah, my shiny new DPS rotation with a DoT, filler, magic burst phase, etc. is way simpler than the old hate rotation of RoH, RoH, RoH...

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Yeah, my shiny new DPS rotation is way simpler than the old hate rotation of RoH, RoH, RoH...

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You know it's really not cute doing this, no one likes it. Now if I'm complaining about a class being a 3 button class, does it take much brain power to figure out that obviously I'm not concerned about which 3 buttons I'm using but that it's 3 buttons only? Perhaps you can try a little harder next time.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

You know it's really not cute doing this, no one likes it. Now if I'm complaining about a class being a 3 button class, does it take much brain power to figure out that obviously I'm not concerned about which 3 buttons I'm using but that it's 3 buttons only? Perhaps you can try a little harder next time.

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I'd give you credit if it was 3 buttons, or even close to that. My DPS rotation is 5 GCD's, 2 buffs for two totally independent phases, and 2 OGCD nukes.

Yes, Enmity combo has another GCD to add, but the rotations aren't quite as braindead as you make them out to be.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Yes, Enmity combo has another GCD to add, but the rotations aren't quite as braindead as you make them out to be.

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Yes it is. 7 buttons on a 2.5 sec gcd in a totally fixed rotation is brain dead.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

It reads like that Ninja ability but is a Tank exclusive. It makes sense to be used on an off tank. But I don't think an off Tank in offensive mode can generate enough enmity for it to matter. It makes sense for a Healer or Dps to toss enmity to the Tank. Or better, if it took 25% from a target instead. Its such a specific situational trait was there any reason why this would be considered a use full for a tank in the current set up? Aside from putting it on that one guy that's been criticizing the tank.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB6zlH172Xs&t=6s <-- This might clear some things up. It does NOT work like Shadewalker. It's a huge difference.