DPS classes numbers and ranking posted on reddit

uhm have read that those numbers are based on trial not on a dummy? just sayin....
but yeah raid scenario is another level indeed, can't wait for the worlds first experiences - most probably there will be shifts ya ^^

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Originally Posted by Ephier

You crazy if you think DRG beats NIN. TA is one of the most borderline broken skills in the game.

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I agree TA is very strong. That said dragoons have 3 buffs (count increase to others as own DPS) to compensate. 1) Disembowel worth around 230 for BRD. 2) Battle Littany worth around 220 for the group assuming crit only 170% (only added value to group, c not drg,likely off). 3) Dragoon Sight buffs dragoon 10% and I will assume SAM 5% with around 80. That's how I came up with 4,600. Again napkin math and may be lower or higher.

As for Ninja, unless they received another group buff, Trick Attack is worth around 300 (note is worth around 370, but 70 of that already counted in the NINs numbers from the parse since they provide it themselves).

However no BRD/MCH will easily cause NIN>DRG. One again, napkin numbers, grain of salt and all that. Real numbers will probably put them quite close.

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Originally Posted by Neela

uhm have read that those numbers are based on trial not on a dummy? just sayin....
but yeah raid scenario is another level indeed, can't wait for the worlds first experiences - most probably there will be shifts ya ^^

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I got ahead of myself and didn't link what I was referencing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...IC&sh=da1056b4

It makes more sense to go off of this than off of limited data from a trial, if only because these numbers are what SE came up with and don't take party composition into account. I don't think those other values really mean too much.

I'm so glad I don't give a shit about things like this. People get way too up in arms over this.

how is disembowel worth around 230 DPS for a BRD? Those numbers show that BRD at its peak does 3800 dmg, 5% of 3800 is 190 not 230, and if I remember well BRD dots (which are a big part of their damage) do not get boosted by disembowel, so we are easily talking about 160 or 170 at best, not 230.

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Originally Posted by Brinzy

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True, that could change things. I guess my point is every class changed and overall it didn't suddenly become the worst class to play like people seemed to think. I like some changes and dislike some, but overall I still enjoy this class and still can mow down hordes of enemies.

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Originally Posted by Brinzy

I got ahead of myself and didn't link what I was referencing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...IC&sh=da1056b4

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oh i see - my bad than :o

Yeeeah, I don't think I could say worst class to play after seeing some other changes. I can feel the Bane gutting, but other things I think I'll just have to wait until I have more gear on to see how it feels.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

how is disembowel worth around 230 DPS for a BRD? Those numbers show that BRD at its peak does 3800 dmg, 5% of 3800 is 190 not 230, and if I remember well BRD dots (which are a big part of their damage) do not get boosted by disembowel, so we are easily talking about 160 or 170 at best, not 230.

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Disembowel is a 5% Piercing Debuff, but actual damage increase is closer to 6% because of the way boss defenses work.

You also need to consider that SAM also brings the slashing debuff which, looking at current figures, honestly probably brings more raid dps than disembowel.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

In turn, stuff like trick, foes, hypercharge also buff other classes pushing their damage up as well. Sooo...

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Exactly. Thats what I meant by saying even if we dont look at raid buffs, we arent as low as it looks. When you look at utility, we are even higher. I think MCH needs a buff though. You guys dont have nearly the utility that bard does to make up for being behind in damage.

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Originally Posted by Vincentv

Disembowel is a 5% Piercing Debuff, but actual damage increase is closer to 6% because of the way boss defenses work.

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Yea back when the debuff was 10% it equated to a 11% damage buff.

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Originally Posted by Riotpersona

You also need to consider that SAM also brings the slashing debuff which, looking at current figures, honestly probably brings more raid dps than disembowel.

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Wasn't this theory debunked ages ago? The rebuffs actually increase damage by x% rather than reduce resistances

for me it just seems that Sam fullfills Mnks HW role in SB - outstanding raw dmg but lacks in synergy/grp utility. hmm...

We must have parser tool in game now thats for sure :p

sam is 312 why? still 200 more dmg than SMN and bringing nothing to the table? , at least rdm brings 10% dmg , raise instant w/o relying on Swiftcast , mobility and some offheals

poor Drg , if numbers are right they need a little boost , and Brd/mch is expected to be 8 & 9 ...some1 has to be last /shrug

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

poor Drg , if numbers are right they need a little boost

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This is what happens when you make peace with the dragons, they don't need us anymore...

In defence of the melee classes, there is a thread in the accepted bugs section that skill speed isn't effecting auto attacks correctly like it now should.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-Auto-Attacks

So when they fix that melee should see higher numbers (hopes DRG is made more competitive).

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Originally Posted by Talec

I dont think SAM will easy find raidspots. they add nothing to other Raidmembers.

And what the heck happened to allmighty DMG-Dragoon???

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I hate to break this to you, but just because a job doesn't bring raid utility doesn't mean they aren't going to be brought to raids or even have a hard time finding raid spots. Not every single job needs to bring utility, In fact i personally think it's rather boring if that is your main criteria on whether or not to bring SAM to a raid.

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Originally Posted by Talec

And then you die once and the whole fight fails because of missing dmg. No matter how important you think you are, I wouldn't want to be part of a raid that bets everything on one card, a Samurai.

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So don't die? lol. This logic doesn't even make sense. If a DRG dies there goes your litany, NIN dies there goes your trick attack. No serious raid group is going to rely heavily on that one Samurai dps, if they are i think you have bigger problems.

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Originally Posted by vikteren

And yet the issues with SMN were not the numbers but how clunky the class feels.

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And yet the main complaints were people complaining about it's lack of dps. Funny that now it's ''it feels so clunky'' when between here and gamefaqs all I saw was ''lol smn trash now''. And ''muh damage loss''.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

Man....they need to rebalance pretty badly. SMN & RDM should not be that high up. And MCH...poor MCH.

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Why not? people seem to forget that unlike many other classes, SMN never has to actually stop damaging a target from beginning to end regardless of mechanics.

Seems like BLM is in a pretty bad spot, has no utility and is dealing pretty much the same damage as summoner which has more utility and mobility.

^last i heard from reddit, blm is right below sam spot so i say they are pretty good

So how exactly are a bunch of random numbers on Twitter proving or disproving anything?

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Originally Posted by Imoye

So how exactly are a bunch of random numbers on Twitter proving or disproving anything?

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If you want you can wait till FF logs start posting numbers as well, but if they come same as posted here, then its pretty much set how things are gonna turn out.

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Originally Posted by Nezia

Seems like BLM is in a pretty bad spot, has no utility and is dealing pretty much the same damage as summoner which has more utility and mobility.

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I don't see how that is so? If I am looking to join a static as my BLM, people that would want me to change jobs because I am a BLM are not worth my time to begin with. It means they don't respect my personal choices to begin with, so they are not worth he air I breath because all jobs are good at clearing content. You don't need utility in order to do it.

I think the best use of these single target dummy numbers is for determining who gets single target dps buffs like Balance card.

Personal dps matters less than total party dps. Once people start getting parses for different comps we'll see how the party meta shakes out and how boss mechanics affects things.

** Stone, Sky, Sea calculator shows that the difference between BRD (3100.87 dps) and MCH (3089.63 dps) is 11.24 on single target.

BRD is gonna be better at AoE than MCH because they can DoT multiple targets. Same can be said about BLM and SMN. SMN can catch up to BLM dps if there were multiple targets.

Top dps for single target is SAM followed by BLM.



** Stone, Sky, Sea calculator will show minimum dps required to beat content.

2min 30 sec parse not tell anything about summoner sustained dps. I tried that sss today and you can use 4 aetherflows, 2 bahamuts and cheese all your mana for ruin 3 spam. Give us double longer encounter and blm do easily +200 more than summoner.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

2min 30 sec parse not tell anything about summoner sustained dps. I tried that sss today and you can use 4 aetherflows, 2 bahamuts and cheese all your mana for ruin 3 spam. Give us double longer encounter and blm do easily +200 more than summoner.

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Problem is that SMN is a highly mobile class, actually the nerf to ruin 3 made us even more mobile as the dps loss from using ruin 2 vs ruin 3 is less during movement. SMNER movement is their strengh this patch even more so than before - the clunkiness people are complaining about is muscle memory and them screwing up theri atherflow, they'll eventually develope new memories.

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Originally Posted by KroLeXz

Problem is that SMN is a highly mobile class, actually the nerf to ruin 3 made us even more mobile as the dps loss from using ruin 2 vs ruin 3 is less during movement. SMNER movement is their strengh this patch even more so than before - the clunkiness people are complaining about is muscle memory and them screwing up theri atherflow, they'll eventually develope new memories.

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i dont think mobility have anything to do with dps numbers. Blm is highest caster dps because they have no party dps utility, samurai is highest melee dps because they dont have anything else than slashing debuff that warrior/ninja already have. summoner is nearly same than red mage because summoner and red mage offer both raid dps utility. Mobility really never been problem once you know the fight and know where you should stand in the fight. Same can be said you have to know do you wanna push aetherflows earlier or later depends how much downtime the bosses have. It is part of boss progression.

Pretty depressing to see DRG so low on that list and the new SSS seems to give the idea that its designed this way. I would have atleast thought the DPS would be SAM > MNK >/< BLM > DRG >/< NIN> SMN > RDM > MCH > BRD

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Originally Posted by Selova

I hate to break this to you, but just because a job doesn't bring raid utility doesn't mean they aren't going to be brought to raids or even have a hard time finding raid spots. Not every single job needs to bring utility, In fact i personally think it's rather boring if that is your main criteria on whether or not to bring SAM to a raid.

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well it was shown in HW Mnks were used a lot in the beginning but got more and more uninteresting for raid grps later on - in the end there were just a few to none Mnks in raid grps. At least this was the way I heard from the statics I know - our f.e. lost his Mnk pretty early in that progress.

How long are these parses for?

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

How long are these parses for?

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It is based of susano extreme training dummy with sss calculator so around 2:30

http://ffxiv.2digitalgames.de/

Machinist is such a mess. It lacks the utility bard has and still performs worse. The job was butchered and desperately needs buffs.

I would just like to add that not only we don't know the level of skill of the players behind these parses, but the 310 gear favors some classes way more than others. Dragoon's stats, for example, with the new gear set is pretty horrible. Without materia slotted, it gives you little over 900 crit while others being over 1300. This heavily influences the damage output of the classes , and so the numbers can't really be taken seriously until raid gear comes out (and hopefully dragoons don't get shafted again)

take in consideration that crit isnt "that" meta anymore... det counts why higher than in hw and noone knows the impact of direct hit... players skilllevel was mention on page 2 as well as raid environments too ^^

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Originally Posted by Neela

take in consideration that crit isnt "that" meta anymore... det counts why higher than in hw and noone knows the impact of direct hit... players skilllevel was mention on page 2 as well as raid environments too ^^

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I suspect that crit will still be king for all melee classes, when they said they were lowering the effects of crit, it was most likely to adjust better to the high numbers of crit we can achieve now (over 1.6k), not exactly nerf crit per say. Then again, its just a guess.

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Originally Posted by Shortie

Why shouldnt SMN and RDM be that high?
They arent support type roles like BRD/MCH...unless you count raise and a single heal.

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BRD is a support role, yes, but MCH is near pure DPS. The only buffs they bring are the same ones BRD has as role actions, but none of the other awesome buffs BRD offers.