How's BLM looking?

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

BLM thread turns into SMN qq thread.

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good luck everyone :3 *grabmybookheadingbacktothebeach*

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

BLM thread turns into SMN qq thread.

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Well I wouldn't worry too much...

I doubt that soon there will be many Summoners left after the changes... but who knows.

*facepalm*

Considering Summoner is just Super Arcanist I do think the lore saying SMN went extinct is entirely accurate. Besides Bane nerf and loss of contagion means SMN got shat on and all about muh Bahamut now.

Now let's move back to the Ley Lines and get back to BLM mmmkay.

I don't think SMN should be so worried about anything considering they bring more group utility with devotion and contagion/ifrit's shield, one might say that BLM should be worried since there is no utility that they can bring outside mana battery, but we'll see

I think that's the complete opposite... Honestly the BLM DPS addition is huge.

When I jump in to parties under the current system... I do see remarks like... "oh its a BLM this will be fast". They just instantly know the DPS will be good.

I get those as well on SMN but usually that has to do with how fast I clear trash packs which is where I get most of my Coms.... not whether I can Resurrect or not.

I think the only time I got Coms as a SMN for support abilities were actually back in early level dungeons when I took over for a crappy healer who kept dying or couldn't heal properly. I've raised half the alliance before in Raids and no one even noticed really. But boy do they notice when you clear out Trash packs.

Honestly I don't think they even notice the support side, I got just as many Coms on BLM and there that's really all you can do is DPS.

I suppose if you were the main healer it would be different, but there's no way in hell a DPS class can queue in the healer queue... and no way in hell SMN healing is ever going to be strong enough for that.

well SMN do buff magic dmg so in a way a BLM or a RDM will love a SMN buddy, that said it could be that a melee comp made to buff SAM dps will be better, point is it's too early to say anything, we only know that having a higher personal dps might not be enough, although considering the game is made so that 80% of coomps can clear it fine, I wouldn't be that worried

Raids my dear... she most probably meant savage endgame raids... that's where utility matters not the alliance raids you can run and clear daily with randoms... *sigh*

I seriously doubt it will play a part, 10% isn't going to even be noticed. Heck most Bards don't even get noticed and their support abilities are much better than that.

Black Mage on the other hand... that one... when I step into a party... its almost instant respect. Summoner was getting that way too in HeavensWard.

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Originally Posted by Neela

Raids my dear... she most probably meant savage raids... *sigh*

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I was talking about that "my dear"... The first time I hit AS1, the DPS were dropping like flies and it was the healers first time.

You were talking bout raising alliances and killing trashmobs...

Oh... I see you're just picking a fight over semantics again... well no problem...

Here's my customary... "you're you're spewing bs again" commentary... so you can be happy now.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

I seriously doubt it will play a part, 10% isn't going to even be noticed. Heck most Bards don't even get noticed and their support abilities are much better than that.

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Now this is the golden hour where your endgame experience truely begins to shine through...

I don't wanna fight... it's just... i mean... uhm... well never mind... I'm too tired for this .___.

about smn, people are not taking the pets damage and the smn mobility into account.., smn and blm will be close

SMN and BLM DPS will probably both be good. In some fights BLM will shine, in others SMN.
However, I do think SMN is now lacking a simple AoE GCD. Their AoE is locked behind Aetherflow, another stack of Aetherflow and Demi Bahamut. Granted, if you got 6 stacks ready to burn on the packs, you'll obliterate them. But that's still 6 stacks.

I am not very worried about single target damage. I think both will be viable. Come 3.1 we'll probably see potency buffs on both sides even.

I feel like the changes to BLM, while simplifying Enochian, just added to the Job. BLM still looks and feels like the good old HW BLM just in stronger, faster and better. The Leylines Teleport is QoL, Lucid dreaming might end up in a huge DPS gain for us, Mana share was a dream come true, Foul sounds and looks dope, Triplecast papa bless, Thunder IV and Multi flares thank you mighty lord.

I mean, yea there were potency nerfs and from the media tour there wasn't a big Damage difference at level 70 but remember, they did wear 290 gear. When going from ARR to HW we went from 130 to 150 gear as well.
I think the numbers will vastly differ once we get some -good- gear. Not the 290 trash.

SMN on the other hand, while I think it's viable, Aetherflow management got more crucial than ever now. It's such an unforgiving system now. And it seems there is so much Ruin focus, it sounds like a very very very boring Job. I think it'll perform good. But it'll also be very boring to play. I wouldn't be too worried about Aetherpact. 5% won't be good for a single person, yea but I am positive SE will see what certain abilities lack come the next few weeks and we'll get them changed and buffed.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Yeah its not even really a nerf... its actually a buff...

Losing 20 potency on Fire II, but gaining 30 potency in Thunder 2 as it now Becomes an AoE... means BLM actually went from 100 potency Fire II down to 80... to now using Fire II (80)+ Thunder II (30) for a total of 110 potency.

So its actually a decent AoE buff, not even including the Flare idea you're talking about.

AND it procs on top of that... and we all know the type of damage a single Proc will add on too.

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Actually, Fire 2 is now 80*1.8-144 vs 100*1.8 =180. Add the 30 from thunder II and you're still at a 6 potency nerf. While Foul and Umbral Hearts will more than make up for that, you're assumption that it's 110 potency and therefore a buff is wrong, as you didn't factor the AF3 potency increase.

From the E3 contagion a +10% magical dmg from all sources, radiant shield also is a mini hypercharge (+2% physical dmg taken with each proc of the shield)and devotion is still what it is.
I think they might be trying to push a caster-synegry group to offset a physical based group, the only problem I see atm is LB atm (both creation and usage as caster LB is not that good on ST)

Yeah it will be interesting to see if caster-synergy can compete with melee-synergy for more raid-grp variations - at least this is something new refreshing. ^^

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Originally Posted by Neela

Now this is the golden hour where your endgame experience truely begins to shine through...

I don't wanna fight... it's just... i mean... uhm... well never mind... I'm too tired for this .___.

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Ahh I leave the board for a day.... and you go edit in a bunch of cheap shots into your posts... nice...

... should have known.

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

about smn, people are not taking the pets damage and the smn mobility into account.., smn and blm will be close

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Well Prior... they were on par with each other due to the SMN mobility... but the Single Target damage on Summoner just got nerfed so did the DoTs... AND the AoE just got completely nerfed into the ground... so its unlikely at this point. The only thing that remains unnerfed is Painflare and Deathflare... the rest are either gone... or at a -20% per target down to -80% per target...

Its possible it could have been made up for with the Bahamut Summon... but that's now locked behind three Aetherflow stacks...

So you get 3 minutes of nerfed damage... and then 20 seconds of enhanced damage... its unlikely this will balance out.

And then that's only at level 70... all the levels prior you don't have that... just the nerfed damage.

I highly doubt at this point they'll be even remotely competitive.

We're hoping at this point the tooltips were either vastly wrong... or the devs change their minds... but barring that... well.

Black Mage is the obvious choice Summoner won't even be competitive.

You disqualified yourself and aren't even aware oft it - it's over.

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Originally Posted by Neela

You disqualified yourself and aren't even aware oft it - it's over.

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Oh that's why you had to go back and edit your posts long after saying you didn't "intentionally" want to start a fight again... a day later...

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Actually, Fire 2 is now 80*1.8-144 vs 100*1.8 =180. Add the 30 from thunder II and you're still at a 6 potency nerf. While Foul and Umbral Hearts will more than make up for that, you're assumption that it's 110 potency and therefore a buff is wrong, as you didn't factor the AF3 potency increase.

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You know... I'd actually be willing to give you that... but even with that...

...its a whopping 6 potency down... and a 30 potency AoE DoT that procs full damage total on top of the continuous ticks...

So yeah its a serious buff...

But.... even if we WERE talking about a 6 potency loss...

That's almost a joke...

When I look at what I lost on the SMN side of the ball... vs what I gained on the BLM side of the ball... yeah... no comparison.

You guys know this is a blm thread right?
All summoners everywhere in this thread, lol

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Originally Posted by Maero

You guys know this is a blm thread right?
All summoners everywhere in this thread, lol

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That's because you're all content with the changes so there's nothing for you to discuss. :p

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Originally Posted by Maero

You guys know this is a blm thread right?
All summoners everywhere in this thread, lol

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Appearently you got one more - questionable if it's good for the Blm community though .__.

Hi, Black Mage/Summoner main. Black Mage was given plenty of love (juicier AoE game from quad flares, Thunder IV and Foul) and belly rubs (easier Enochian), while Summoner has kinda been shafted. So, there is a bit of salt to be had from those who played and love both classes... but see one being covered in succulent and rich chocolates/whatever your vice food is, and the other being covered in... hot garbage.

I wish I could say that BLM needs nerfs, but really what needs to happen is SMN not being nerfed.

I completely agree with that,

Honestly I too like the BLM changes, and they were very needed. I admit, once I got the hang of it I actually liked maintaining the Enochian cycle... but... I can see why some did not. And being able to repeatedly rip off Fire IVs now without worrying about it expiring anymore is great. It was like repeated single target Deathflares once you got the hang of it (admittedly the damage was higher).

And now you can actually move to avoid something, and still cast Fire IVs.

Throw in the idea of Quad Flares, and the Thunder now AoE, heck Foul was just icing at that point.

The Rich Chocolate vs Hot Garbage analogy really does bring it into perspective.

The only good addition was the Bahamut, and you only get that for 20 seconds every 3 minutes... the rest was either nerfed or removed. So unless something drastically changes at launch... well...

Smns who have the highest utility of the caster classes whining about personal dps not being as over powered as it was.

Oh no you cant do over tuned as hell AoE on top of near blm level single target with better mobility anymore oh the agony of not being op as hell.

You have ST and a strong raid syngery that 1 of them affects all casters in the group and the other for 1 target to , unlike drgs 10% buff to self and 5% to another, buffs them by 5% and reduces the damage they take by 5%.

Ifrit has a mini hyper charge


Youre effectively the caster version of bard except more damage, caster parties MUST take you unless they are blind and stupid.

Woe is you.

You seem to have confused... Bard with Summoner...

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

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Youre effectively the caster version of bard except more damage, caster parties MUST take you unless they are blind and stupid.

Woe is you.

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Okay, let's disseminate this, one by one.

Smns who have the highest utility of the caster classes whining about personal dps not being as over powered as it was.

Citation needed. Our only utility was access to Virus and Eye for an Eye, and you're usually gonna have a Scholar in your party who can E4E better than you anyway. Plus, we lost those, so whoops. There goes THAT. And I'd like to direct you to Black Mages, who in battles without the greatest of movement (which Alexander: The Creator and the most recent surge of dungeons have reimplemented) cut through bosses like hot knives in butter.

Also the 1000 character limit is kinda dumb, so I'll have continue in a few more posts.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

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Citation needed. Our only utility was access to Virus and Eye for an Eye, and you're usually gonna have a Scholar in your party who can E4E better than you anyway.

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You lost all credibility with anything you say due to not mentioning summoners have BATTLE REZ as utility. Unless by 'citation' you were asking for clarification on your knowledge of said things.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

You lost all credibility with anything you say due to not mentioning summoners have BATTLE REZ as utility.

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My apologies, I forgot about something that was a form of utility for SMN, despite it being done better by Red Mages. My bad! That's only one more thing to the mostly selfish moveset of Summoner, but it'll certainly be mentioned in the next post.

Oh no you cant do over tuned as hell AoE on top of near blm level single target with better mobility anymore oh the agony of not being op as hell.

By mobility for single target, you mean DoTs/Ruin II, the latter of which does far crappier damage than Fire IV, Fester which is a oGCD, of which we can only do 3 times per minute? Our pet KINDA helps and our "utility" was either selfish or Radiant Shield or the situational Resurrection? As for our AoEs, BLMs have better burst through Fire IIs that they can cast as much as they'd like, versus our Painflares of which we only get three (seeing a bit of a pattern with our more powerful abilities), their nuke, Flare, versus our Deathflare and its paltry 400 potency every minute. All we get to edge over you, is Shadow Flare and Bane. With Stormblood, all of our damage was shot and our AoE identity removed. But why should Summoners complain, Black Mage gets Quad Flare, Foul, and Thunder IV, the last of which can proc with Thundercloud.

That is true too...

Summoner already has a Support class side... its the Scholar. Especially since you automatically get both at the same level once unlocked.

That's who actually uses those things.By the time you get to 60th as a Summoner... pretty much all your utility is weak at best. I think Resurrection is the only utility left by that point. Physick is way too pathetic to use as a Summoner.

Scholar utility though... that gets stronger and stronger.

But then again the Scholar is the healing/utility side of Arcanist... Summoner is the DPS side of Arcanist... you pick one or the other depending on what you like best.

Having two support jobs spring out of Arcanist is pointless.

You have ST and a strong raid syngery that 1 of them affects all casters in the group and the other for 1 target to , unlike drgs 10% buff to self and 5% to another, buffs them by 5% and reduces the damage they take by 5%.

Eye for an Eye and Virus are gone. Like, literally gone for Summoners. At best we get Addle, the Mage side of Virus, and the other one was given to Melee DPS. Meanwhile, Devotion, our new utility no longer buffs the party and only the person closest to the pet. Contagion is a poor man's Foe's Requiem/Bishop Hypercharge and...

Ifrit has a mini hyper charge

Oh! Thanks for reminding me that Ifrit's Radiant Shield was loaded on with a 2% vulnerability debuff, like a crappy Rook Hypercharge. Now we'll never see Garuda again except in almost-all Caster parties, or in a party with 2 SMNs... but who'd take SMN SMN in a serious raid, due to party bonus penalties?

I just don't understand the need for doom and gloom when it comes to numbers and not functionality. If 4.0 rolls out and SMN does end up having low damage compared to BLM/RDM, they will get buffed. If their kit is fun, and the changes work overall and the only issue is numbers- those can be tweaked. Easily, with little to no effort. People just need to calm down and let the raid tier come out before freaking out about potency. Balance will come, maybe not at first, but it will still come.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

I just don't understand the need for doom and gloom when it comes to numbers and not functionality. If 4.0 rolls out and SMN does end up having low damage compared to BLM/RDM, they will get buffed. If their kit is fun, and the changes work overall and the only issue is numbers- those can be tweaked. Easily, with little to no effort. People just need to calm down and let the raid tier come out before freaking out about potency. Balance will come, maybe not at first, but it will still come.

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Yeah but that's pointless...

Why would you want to play something you didn't sign up for all the way through the content just to get that far?

I'm fine waiting for launch to find out if they really did nerf it that bad... but that's as far as it goes.

If it hasn't changed from what I am looking at currently... no way in hell would I play it. There are much better options than that.

Unless you are in a very hardcore raid group- why does it matter which is the 'best'? Play what you enjoy playing the most.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Okay, let\\'s disseminate this, one by one.

Smns who have the highest utility of the caster classes whining about personal dps not being as over powered as it was.

Citation needed. Our only utility was access to Virus and Eye for an Eye, and you\\'re usually gonna have a Scholar in your party who can E4E better than you anyway.

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You gained

Super virus version of magic down

Devotion dps increase and damage down

Foes from garuda

Battle raise

Mana transfer

Apocostasis from blm

Etc.

You obviously havent payed attention to anything but potency reductions if all your listing is virus and e4e.

Also yes thats blms shtick it must not move to achieve its highest natural outout something summoner can do within 90% range regardless of if there\\'s movement or not.

Cherry picking single scenarios over all emcompassing situations is a bad argument at best.