WHM might be meta

As you note yourself, it's all a make or break situation depending on the content we come up against. Great thread and some very interesting reading though, it's nice to see some logical thinking on here with some grounded analysis of what we've got vs the 'woe is WHM' thinking that's been all too prevalent ever since the preview. Mucho thumbs up from me <3

You've worked out the relative value of the classes without weighting for impact of cooldown stacking, which stratagem gains significantly from and WHM average over time does not (atleast, not remotely to the same degree).

It's possible that the amount of dps that comes from the window in which the cooldown is used could be anything upward of 50% more valuable (it could be twice or thrice that, for all I know - most of the terms are multiplicative with each other) compared with any other period of time in a given log, especially in the first usage of a fight when all classes' cooldowns are active. On the other hand, your math for WHM assumes an average over time that has no variable that will be significantly altered by such multiplicative value increases. As a general indicator, compare peak damage vs. average damage from a given fight to see what kind of relative value a cooldown might have vs. when its effect is averaged over the whole period.

I don't do top end raiding in FFXIV so I don't know which fights are good indicators, but you mentioned gordias 3.1 savage, so I went to fflogs and looked at the top entry on gordias faust for 3.1. In that case, the peak damage for that raid was 30k, with the fight average on a 1.15 fight being 11k. So, even on an extremely short fight of 1:15 mins (just 5x the cooldown in question), peak damage was 3x average damage for the raid for the fight. The longer the fight, the lower the average damage and higher the peak damage will be relatively. The same seems to be true in every fight to a degree; the initial damage burst peaks at ~3x the average damage for the fight, with a second peak damage around 2x later on.

Ergo: If your numbers are close when using average values for the impact of stratagem without weighting for cooldown stacking, then they are actually very, very far from close in reality on fights where raids can stack cooldowns.

So, to apply a very simple napkin math; if we assign a weighting of "cooldown time" vs. non-cooldown time of 2:1, which is definitely low on short fights and possibly high on long fights, we would increase strategem's relative input from 1/6 to 2/7 (it is up 1/6 of the time, with a relative weighting of 2 for every 1 unit of non-buffed time). 2/7 - 1/6 = ~12% more valuable than currently assigned.

Also,Stone Iv has gone Down from 260 to 250 now. So sch will most likely got the same dps. Not to mention Fey Wind ( even if it's just a little dps increase, it's still one).

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Originally Posted by Llynd

Also,Stone Iv has gone Down from 260 to 250 now. So sch will most likely got the same dps. Not to mention Fey Wind ( even if it's just a little dps increase, it's still one).

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i have to re do all my math. strategem is also 15% and on a longer cooldown, and thin air got a shorter cooldown. i also didnt consider that aetherflow trait at all......
fey wind isnt really used much btw since eos is less healing = more dps, but its really fight dependent

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Originally Posted by QooEr

i have to re do all my math. strategem is also 15% and on a longer cooldown, and thin air got a shorter cooldown. i also didnt consider that aetherflow trait at all......
fey wind isnt really used much btw since eos is less healing = more dps, but its really fight dependent

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I think it will be different because of cleric stance remove , we can easily throw out heal

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Originally Posted by Cressidia

I think it will be different because of cleric stance remove , we can easily throw out heal

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exactly. whm has to heal waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than they used to just from the changes to ASSIZE. thats not even counting benediction's 3 min cd and divine benison which at 30s makes it incredibly useful for not casting heals

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Originally Posted by QooEr

exactly. whm has to heal waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than they used to just from the changes to ASSIZE. thats not even counting benediction's 3 min cd and divine benison which at 30s makes it incredibly useful for not casting heals

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Just that Benison needs lillies to cast, and seeing how many lilly dumps there are, you practically HAVE to cast Cure II before you use Benison for it to be even able to cast. Then, you also have to actually heal LP with that Cure II to even get a lilly. In other words, by no means is Benison free since it eats up both MP AND lillies; it's extremely expensive. Furthermore, with lillies it takes a resource that's depleted by literally any skill you use often as a WHM sans Regen, only build by your most undesirable skills, AND it's on a CD too boot. Can I have the nerfed 10% Stoneskin back already, please?

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

In other words, by no means is Benison free since it eats up both MP AND lillies; it's extremely expensive.

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maybe you cant always use it on cd it since you need the lilies but you can also see it as a bonus to every cure 2. if tanks have around 38k hp and cure iis do like 10k using it after every cure 2 is like critting every cure 2. stoneskin was way more expensive than cure 2 and had an actual cast time. except for the fact we dont have pre pull stoneskin, i honestly see benison as being better than stoneskin during fights because you can chuck them in for tankbusters. while casting stoneskin was a dps loss, benison actually lets you cast more damage spells for virtually no cost in fights where the tank(s) takes a lot of damage in succession (u cant always just top tanks with regen and tetra if its a cleave>buster>cleave sorta thing)

Maybe i'm dumb and i don't get how to use new whitemage or maybe i'm uncomfortable with change... whatever the case may be i cant help, but feel that whitemage got the short end of the stick with this update.... They managed to take the most desired healing job and crapped on it!!! the fact that all healing jobs can use divine seal now is a real slap in the face considering the benefits that SCH and AST already have. the fact they took esuna away and threw that into a cross class pool. WHY? every healing job already had erase. so what was the point of doing that? maybe i just need another WHM to explain to me how i can make this work. i feel like they nerfed WHM and i'm not sure if i can deal with that...

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Originally Posted by QooEr

maybe you cant always use it on cd it since you need the lilies but you can also see it as a bonus to every cure 2. if tanks have around 38k hp and cure iis do like 10k using it after every cure 2 is like critting every cure 2. stoneskin was way more expensive than cure 2 and had an actual cast time. except for the fact we dont have pre pull stoneskin, i honestly see benison as being better than stoneskin during fights because you can chuck them in for tankbusters. while casting stoneskin was a dps loss, benison actually lets you cast more damage spells for virtually no cost in fights where the tank(s) takes a lot of damage in succession (u cant always just top tanks with regen and tetra if its a cleave>buster>cleave sorta thing)

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And then your co-healer is faster and topped off the tank a nanofraction of a second before you, your Cure II is wasted and you can't get up your oh-so-great shield because you need to actually cure lp to generate lillies. Useless.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

And then your co-healer is faster and topped off the tank a nanofraction of a second before you, your Cure II is wasted and you can't get up your oh-so-great shield because you need to actually cure lp to generate lillies. Useless.

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then tell your cohealer not to waste their dps lol or let them heal it if theyre so desperate to heal up the tank. learn to optimize or dont say shit is useless