This subject can be so draining.. I'm glad to see so many fair-minded posters on this subject. I want SE to make the game THEY want to make. I would hate to see them forced to add or keep something from being added. Let them tell the story they want to tell. I hate when developers change what they envision for their game because of political reasons. Must politics, virtue signaling, appeasement, sjw, etc etc reach it's way into everything? It makes everything it touches unbearable. Let's just relax and have fun. If certain publishers develop games in a way that you like, support them. If not, find someone else who does. Forcing things takes the genuineness out of it. When things happen naturally it is much more enjoyable imo.
-
05-27-2017, 01:44 AMYukiba
-
05-27-2017, 01:46 AMmissybeeCouldn't that just be the royal "we" though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
...Not that they really even seem to have a lower half at any rate, but still. -
05-27-2017, 01:47 AMNaunetThis is the argument of people who don't want to see any LGBT representation at all. Even when a character DOES get introduced, they claim it's "virtue signalling" or "pandering". It's not about "hey look at us!" It's about wanting to be able to see worlds where people like you are part of the fabric of the story just as much as heterosexual or cis people are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
From your post, it sounds like you identify as one of those letters in the acronym. You should know better. -
05-27-2017, 01:49 AMAyerinn
I'm not against having any "minority" represented - but why do we feel there is a need for any "minority" focused character, be it race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. If it makes sense, it makes sense - I don't get the "we need this minority represented because we don't have one yet" mentality at all.
-
05-27-2017, 01:51 AMHPDelronAphlinaud too at least we know is straight, and that one white mage in the warriors of darkness (so sayeth the lorebook). Plus Emmanellain de Fortemps, his father and the Archbishop. These characters have all had their romantic interests touched on in one way or another, at least a little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliott
You're absolutely right it's mostly a background issue. Characters are far more concerned with Primals, the Empire and the general fate of the world than their dating life. That said, I also hardly think the world end if they gave similar small nods in the other direction. -
05-27-2017, 01:51 AMArutanBasically if a character is introduced and we immediately know he is part of the LGBT, it's either:Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
1) he/she comes with his/her mate and happen to be in a relationship for a long time, which is totally fine
2) he/she has the need to absolutely talk about its sexuality, which is something I couldn't give less care.
And yes I'm the G, is it a matter? Don't we have the right to dislike the like of us? -
05-27-2017, 01:52 AMEnur
Sure lets just say Cid is homosexual.
Is it important? No.
Does he have to show it off? No.
Do we need proof otherwise in order to assume stuff about him? No.
Should he be here due to his importance in being our main supplier of deus ex machina-machines? Yes.
Problem solved. -
05-27-2017, 01:55 AMVexanderCould also be a lover spurned thing. Imagine some Sharlayan Sunseeker coming over to the Scions and Y'shtola mentions she used to have a thing for him, but that he was more interested in only a platonic relationship with women? Kind of subtle, but it doesn't need to get more in-depth than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
-
05-27-2017, 01:55 AMArutanLmao, tho if people were assuming things about you that aren't true you wouldn't like :p (except people assuming gender, keep going guys let make them understand there only is 2 gender in the genetic.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
-
05-27-2017, 01:58 AMNaunetWhy does this particular thing have to be hidden?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexander
No one is EVER shy about presenting het relationships. No one batted an eye at Urianger and Moenbryda's courtship, but I can guarantee that if Moenbryda had been male, people would have screamed that it was pandering. -
05-27-2017, 02:03 AMmissybeeWoah - what?! I am feeling like I must have missed something (I glaze over at times).Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
I was under the impression that they were just good friends? -
05-27-2017, 02:05 AMArutanStudents of Louisoix too. I didn't see more between them than the mentor and friend link.Quote:
Originally Posted by missybee
-
05-27-2017, 02:05 AMMaero
Not at all trying to offend as i have no issues with the community, but why must todays society always have this?
It seems like every movie, television show and now video games need it? -
05-27-2017, 02:06 AMSenorPattySame here. If anything, I'm pretty sure it had the anime childhood friend trope all over thatQuote:
Originally Posted by missybee
-
05-27-2017, 02:10 AMNaunetFair enough. It's open to interpretation. How about Bitter Snow and Yellow Moon? The two lalafell in the WVR questline? Wedge crushing on Tataru? Gerolt and Rowena (past lovers)? These are all pretty obvious. I don't see why those are not a problem but how dare someone suggest non-het or non-cis characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by missybee
LGBT people exist in real life. We deserve representation in works of fiction. Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
-
05-27-2017, 02:14 AMDriavnaGo and do CRP story arc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
-
05-27-2017, 02:14 AMArutanMaybe because most of them are side-quest because that's the place where we put little details like that and that the thread talk about the main quest...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
People with cancer, AIDS, STD exist in real life. They deserve representation in works of fiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Please add some to the MSQ.
*for edgy people who cannot understand 2nd degree, I wasn't comparing LGBT to diseases but rather suggesting a group of people that nobody would suggest to add in the game* -
05-27-2017, 02:20 AMmissybeeOh, you very well may have been right - I will admit to not paying much attention to the stuff with Moon Burrito because she was a really uninteresting character to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
I would have no issue with minor (or major) characters having an LGBTQ+ relationship, but if the relationship of two NPCs became kind of a major part of what is inherently "our" story, I feel like that might be kind of annoying (no matter the sexual orientation). -
05-27-2017, 02:21 AMNaunetThere are characters with illness in the story, actually. When a fictional universe has zero to almost no characters who are not cis and het, it feels very shallow as that is not how the world works - just as there are both healthy and unhealthy people (check), people of different races (check), people of different nationalities (check), people of different beliefs (check), people of different ages (check)....Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
-
05-27-2017, 02:27 AMArutan
I don't recall much sick people in the MSQ.
In the whole world of Hydealyn we may have seen a few sick people just like we saw few LGBT people like the highlanders in Hildibrand's quest (Coliseum chapter).
So get over it. -
05-27-2017, 02:35 AMWanzer
This is very hard for me to tell it but, holy crap, i totally agree with you, Altan ! ;A;
And nice work, Skyrior. Very nice HQ bait, as usual. -
05-27-2017, 02:37 AMNaunetOP doesn't mention MSQ - only lore as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
In fact, there are a LOT of quests that involve healing ill people.
I hope you can someday not hate yourself as much as you seem to. -
05-27-2017, 02:39 AMKaurie
THINK OF THE GINGERS!!
Put a stop to #KickAGingerDay -
05-27-2017, 02:43 AMMaeroAnd as i said it was not to offend as i have no issue with the community, it just feels like today companies are almost mandated to include content whether it be television shows, movies or now video games. And why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
The list can go on if we were to go with such and such community deserves representation, companies should be able to decide what they so choose to
Anyhow clearly i have offended so i do apologize but just like you can have an opinion so could myself and others
"Get over it" -
05-27-2017, 02:45 AMAlexanderThorolund
As a gay man i don't understand this mentality at all. It's like when they say there's got to be a quota in government for how many woman they have. Going out of their way to employ women over possibly more qualified men. Equality has gone crazy. I like to be treated fairly same as anyone else but it's gone too far.
-
05-27-2017, 02:46 AMSilkaNYou deserve nothing. Just like everyone else. You are not special and deserve no special treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Authors can choose to include LGBT characters, but they should not be forced to just to push an agenda.
Statements such as yours certainly don't help normalizing the LGBT community. -
05-27-2017, 02:47 AMNaunetThis is such a disingenuous argument. It has NOTHING to do with putting less qualified people in a position. It has nothing to do with wanting token characters. It has EVERYTHING to do with wanting to see a fully-realized world with characters who are more than just cis and het, because that is how the world works.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderThorolund
How come cis and het people get special treatment then? They're always included.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkaN
No one is forcing anything, by the way. It's a simple request, and honestly it should not be an overly burdensome expectation for writers to create a world with more than just one kind of person. -
05-27-2017, 02:48 AMVexanderWho said it has to be hidden? I said make it subtle. When Moenbryda showed up the scions had different gossip options about her that gave us a bit of background information, including her close friendship with Urianger that -could- have meant a little something more. Entirely up to interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Could be the same thing. Some Sunseeker shows up and Krile goes, "You know, for a while I was pretty sure Y'shtola and he were going to defy tradition and go start their own tribe, if you get my meaning. Matoya didn't care much to see her protege distracted though, so she popped that bubble and told Y'shtola plainly that he's the kind of man who would never become a Nuhn."
Krile seems the sort to gossip more about that sort of thing, otherwise I'd say have Thancred go, "Oh, so he's here? Excellent! Less competition for the lovely women of the realm." -
05-27-2017, 02:48 AMArutanI wish I could multi-like.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkaN
Stop. Right there. Please, think before posting. What are we supposed to use if there's no base? Uh? Cis and het are just a base from which come everything else. If you don't have a base, you can't build. Try building a tower without foundation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Oh, sorry, I thought the title of the thread was "when can we get a prominent LGBT character in the storyline?".Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
-
05-27-2017, 02:51 AMDyvid
-
05-27-2017, 02:55 AMNestmile
LGBT representation is nice (if it's done tastefully), but it's not worth getting up in arms about. Especially in every individual case. It's the sort of thing that can be championed as a whole, not so much on a case-by-case basis, and I'd say that at large we're doing better than ever.
Besides, my WoL is gay af. He's a pretty prominent character, I'd say.
(Also I love that this thread is tagged "skyrior post....") -
05-27-2017, 02:55 AMSendohJinThose are hardly prominent characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
Not that I think it's needed. And I also think we have them already and it's just not in our faces yet. Almost none of the main characters have shown their preferences. -
05-27-2017, 02:59 AMNaunetOh ffs. They are not default. This is idiotic. Non-cis and non-het people have existed alongside cis and het people for all of human history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutan
The "base" is the foundation of the world, the basic physical rules that govern Eorzea - things like the Twelve, aether, spirits, how primals are summoned, etc. Treating cis and het people as not default does not destabilize an imaginary world - nor would it destabilize the real world. -
05-27-2017, 03:00 AMJustsomeguy
Yes, yes, troll thread aside...I figured I'd chime in for a moment.
Why does this even need to be a problem in the first place? Can't we just enjoy the world that the creator(s) created? We aren't playing the "real" world, we're enjoying a work of fiction made by someone to be something fake. Not everything needs to exist, not everything needs to be true. That's why I feel like some people get upset and say things are pandering and what not. Personally, I don't take anything in a game as if it is supposed to be the real world or hold any actual truth to it. Really, we're just partaking in a story that was made by a writer, the way they wanted to write it. If they didn't want to include something, that's fine, it is their creation after all.
We can suggest things, we can ask for things, but if they don't want to include it in the end it is up to us to decide if that is a deal breaker and if the product is no longer worth our support.
Judging by the way the MSQ is, I don't think including anything like that would feel fluid? Maybe if SB's MSQ involves more romantic relationships, then it'd just be another relationship. But right now? I don't really care who is lying with whom. -
05-27-2017, 03:01 AMVexanderOkay, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, I just cannot take anyone seriously who uses this term. Just saying, 'Heterosexual,' is more than enough to get the point across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
To address the whole comment, it's not special treatment. They're included as a result of biological requirements for a species to exist. Would Harry Potter exist if James was Gay and Lily was into Women? Would Voldemort exist if his mother had a crush on Tabetha Riddle instead of Tom Riddle?
If everyone is LGBT then there is no reproduction going on at all. No characters would exist. For any story to exist as a stable base you -need- characters capable of reproduction. It helps that story continue if enough of the existing characters can also reproduce and thus have new characters for the future narrative. -
05-27-2017, 03:04 AMmissybeeI should apparently pay more attention to even the minor character dialogue! This is wonderful!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
In the comments on that video, one of them also mentions the vendor who looked like 1.0 Minfilia. I had forgotten about her and her wife.
So, there is some effort being made to be inclusive - it just isn't being rammed down our throats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) -
05-27-2017, 03:06 AMArutanOk I have a better idea for you. What about stopping to say stupid things and just realize that all along that thread you just assumed every character of the game was het? Please list me all the moment a NPC declared he's het. Maybe if it's too long you can just deal with the MSQ? but your list won't be long anyway. If you're not happy because you can't see gay romance in game just go read fanfictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
PS: yes it is a base. Please ask a gay couple to make a baby. Oh, wait. -
05-27-2017, 03:06 AMCon_Carne
Why is many people against this? Is like a gay player says "why they should put a straight character or a relationship between a man and a woman?". LGBT is something that should have more presence everywhere in the same way that women are not weak ladies in peril anymore, they appear as strong heroines.
No, people doesn't want to see two males in love because they don't like it. People prefer to see more giant hot naked women as raid bosses... again. -
05-27-2017, 03:07 AMSilkaNFirst of all, nature and society are based on traditional sexual orientations and gender norms. Most people on this planet are heterosexual. According to statistics, only 3.5% of all US citizens are homosexual. I think Eorzea does a pretty good job portraying this percentage, since there are already gay NPCs in the game. No, you won't come across them at every corner, but they do exist. They are a part of the world. Just like real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet
Secondly, Eorzea is already pretty diverse. There are many different races living together in at least some kind of harmony. FFXIV simply isn't a story about an "oppressed LGBTQABCDEFG character that struggles with Eorzea's cis-hetero gender norms and expectations". Maybe some of the NPCs you have already met are gay and just hidden in plain sight? You wouldn't know since it is not their defining feature! Basing characters around the "I'm not hetero, therefore I am special" stereotype is just bad writing and nothing more.
If you want a story about struggling LGBT characters, I am sure there is enough literature about it. You shouldn't try to force it into stories that focus on other plot points, though. -
05-27-2017, 03:08 AMFaliandrabecause theyre the vast majority?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naunet